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Alex and Roberta were fabulous together in Don Q and as these performances will be Roberta's valedictory performances I think that is a bit of a mean thing to say.

It's probably also true (although one should never speculate) that she was given her choice of role (given the repertoire) and partner...

 

I, for one, would have been very sad if she has not been dancing with him.

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We should start a petition - Yuhui for Principal!

 

And yes, she and Alex were wonderful together in 2Ps.

 

If you do start a petition I hope it has more success than our attempt to get Giselle put to DVD recently.

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I don't suppose anyone knows the answer to this, but I'll ask it anyway.

 

If someone on a lower pay grade regularly dances principal roles, do they get any extra money for doing so?

 

 

I don't know for RB, but I hear that in Zurich, a dancer is paid MORE if they have to dance a role that is LOWER than their contract. 

I think for dancers the world is very different to normal workers... dancing more, and stepping up is very much a reward in itself. The opposite meanwhile...isn't and should be compensated.

Edited by SwissBalletFan
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I don't suppose anyone knows the answer to this, but I'll ask it anyway.

 

If someone on a lower pay grade regularly dances principal roles, do they get any extra money for doing so?

If they did, Miss Choi would be a rich lady by now. Edited by Tony Newcombe
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I don't usually have big favourites with dancers these days but after last Saturday I have become a bit of a Naghdi fan! I've always liked her dancing such a joyful soul but this other side she has really showed on Saturday. I get worried when dancers are pushed too soon so hope she is given time to develop and hope Francesca Hayward.....another lovely dancer...hasn't been promoted too soon ( no disrespect to her) so too much expected too soon in a developing artist. One just has to trust the management who see the dancers all the time .....not just in performance....but Choe's non promotion rankles just a bit.

 

And I too think that somehow Campbell complements Choe really well something about the two together that goes well.

 

Could Choe be a Juliet? Or an Odette/Odile? She has performed in Sleeping Beauty but maybe at this point lacks a certain dramatic projection?

Darcy was in a similar vein I think and yet she was a principal.....but times and circumstances for a Company change I guess.

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Lin, when I was typing my comment about Choe, I did think about Bussell.  I believe she was not noted for her dramatic skills during the early part of her career.  I was living abroad when Darcey was promoted, so I am not sure what the other female dancers were like at that time. 

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I'm a bit reticent to weigh in on this topic.... I don't like comparing dancers  as I absolutely hated it when I was compared to anyone else when I was taking classes.  I certainly do think if you want to compare it's good to see the both dancers in their latest outings first though ...

 

I like Choe and noticed her way back before she was promoted up the ranks and before I knew she was Prix de Lausanne dancer.  I've seen the descriptions of  'too sweet' or' saccharine' before in relation to Yuhui's  portrayals/characterisations  before and these stick in my head. Alastair Macaulay was the first person I remember saying this and I believe that was Jamesrhblack's  description of a particular performance as well.   I think it is a fair criticism and I can see why people say it. Yuhui dances beautifully but often she doesn't seem to have a defined persona or inhabit the role enough. She comes in, dances the steps lovely but she doesn't give me a sense of her, Yuhui Choe dancing these steps. I sometimes feel like here is a textbook version of beautiful, lyrical dancing punctuated with lovely little smiles.  That may be appropriate sometimes but it doesn't always work.  I  have some ideas on where this comes from as I've seen it  in a certain place before..  What will be interesting to see is if she approaches things differently from here on in...

Edited by Jamdancer
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Could Choe be a Juliet? Or an Odette/Odile? She has performed in Sleeping Beauty but maybe at this point lacks a certain dramatic projection?

She guested at Korea National Ballet as Odette/Odile in 2011; there's a substantial amount of video footage of it on YouTube if you wish to form an opinion.

 

Edited to add White pdd : https://youtu.be/IaTA-1KMAg0

 

And Black pdd: https://youtu.be/Kx-hO852FM4

 

(Substantially different version to the one that's standard at the RB, but even so...)

Edited by RuthE
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RuthE Thankyou so much for posting these videos.....well the Odette/ Odile doubt has definitely gone ....she's a lovely soft Odette with some subtle touches ( as always) .....like the way she just gently touches his arm towards the end almost like a swan would do with beak to say I'm here......and a radiant vixeny Odile....wonderful.

This was as long ago as 2011 .....What are the RB waiting for ....she needs to be allowed to get in there with a few chances at this role at the ROH.

Now who suggested that petition........my names there!!

 

Seriously though perhaps her slightly understated style and softer technique just isn't as appreciated these days because in last ten years or so I think dancers have become that much harder and stronger as a rule.....as the more gymnastic style has crept in....

She is not an "in your face" dancer but I think has some lovely qualities and I hope that as a First Soloist she will be given more Principal roles to try out other than the ones already doing.

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RuthE Thankyou so much for posting these videos.....well the Odette/ Odile doubt has definitely gone ....she's a lovely soft Odette with some subtle touches ( as always) .....like the way she just gently touches his arm towards the end almost like a swan would do with beak to say I'm here......and a radiant vixeny Odile....wonderful.

 

And as for those fouettes - she nails them to the spot in a way that I haven't seen anyone do in the last couple of RB runs except Marianela Nunez.

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I think Choe is a really beautiful soloist, but having seen Takada's Giselle this year, she is unquestionably "the real deal" in terms of classical ballerinas.  Takada's technique appears rock solid, whereas I have seen Choe have a few off-days  (there is a very unfortunate video on youtube of her as the Rose Fairy in a Nutcracker cinema screening having a very tough time of it).  They are clearly both very very good dancers, but I think Takada's mix of technique and characterisation, as well as that almost indefinable old-fashioned ballerina style which is rare these days and beautiful in the classics make her the right choice.  

 

Like Melissa Hamilton, I think Choe would undoubtedly be a principal in another very good company - the problem/luxury for the RB at the moment is the promotion claims of so many upcoming brilliant dancers who would all be the biggest fish in a smaller pond.

 

I wonder also, and I hesitate to say this because no disrespect is meant, whether it was easier for O'Hare to make up Hirano, since at his age, it is unlikely that he will occupy a principal position for the next 20 years.  With Watson sadly moving into end-of-career territory also, there may be slots for some of the very promising junior dancers by the time they are ready.

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Yes I forgot to mention the fouettés RuthE .....I'm not a particular fouetté fan but she hardly came off the spot and they didn't look forced either. Brilliant!

 

However I do feel a bit uncomfortable setting off one dancer against another so to speak as they all have their own particular qualities......in fact it's getting really difficult to know who to book for next season as I can't go to EVERY performance!! But in Yuhui Choe's case I do feel she deserves more.

Perhaps she will do some guesting as Principal in other countries .....if she can do this at least she's keeping her hand in meatier roles.

 

I think she will just have to do at least one incredible performance next season and so get promoted on the spot!!!

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I wonder also, and I hesitate to say this because no disrespect is meant, whether it was easier for O'Hare to make up Hirano, since at his age, it is unlikely that he will occupy a principal position for the next 20 years. With Watson sadly moving into end-of-career territory also, there may be slots for some of the very promising junior dancers by the time they are ready.

At 32 he could occupy that slot for a decade without straining the bounds of credulity, so O'Hare would need quite a reliable crystal ball to figure out how anyone develops over the next 10 years or so. Though generally having principals that are not all of a similar age isn't a bad idea for a company.

 

I haven't seen Hirano in too many larger roles, but I thought his Espada when he wasn't affected by recent injuries was Oh-la-la and he was exceedingly creepy and sad as Witch in Hansel and Gretel.

Edited by Coated
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I like Hirano, he's very versatile and suspect he has hidden depths as yet unplumbed.

 

I think so too, he was very creepy as the Witch in Hansel and Gretel, one magazine has suggested Rudolf as a possible role.

 

I wonder if Akane Takada will dance dramatic leads now too, perhaps she and Ryoichi Hirano will become partners?

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I that the discussion about Choe's position in the company raises some very interesting questions about what criteria should be applied to the appointment of Principal dancers and what they represent to the company itself and its audience. Should such dancers be seen as exemplars of the company's style and the highest levels  of performance that the company can deliver as far as its core repertory is concerned, or are they merely appointments made to reward dancers for services rendered?

 

If the position is a reward for services rendered then you can make a strong argument for Choe's promotion because of the roles that she has danced. However I would describe her performances as pleasing rather than exemplary. She is charming when she dances Lise, but her Lise and Young Girl are virtually interchangeable as far as characterisation is concerned and she does not make me see the roles anew, She reproduces the choreography but it's all rather small scale and a bit bland as it lacks the nuances and fine stylistic details that make Ashton's characters live. I am afraid that I find her Aurora not displeasing as far as reproducing the choreographic text is concerned but totally lacking in any individuality both in relation to other roles that she dances and to other dancers in that role.

 

It is unreasonable to demand that a Principal dancer should be exemplary in every type of ballet which is in the  company's repertory but it is not unreasonable to expect that they should be outstanding in at least one part of it so that you could say to a young dancer or a new ballet goer if you really want to know what lies at the heart of this role you should go and see X dance it. You can say if you want to see how Ashton should be danced go and see Morera her footwork and epaulement are exemplary and she knows how to  bend as Ashton intended. I don't feel that can be said about  Choe's performances. I am not sure what the root of the problem is perhaps she thinks that Ashton is wrong but when she bends it is a bit like an optional add on rather than being an integrated organic movement. Perhaps she is too wedded to the classroom version of the steps to adjust to the style required in performance. I don't know. I find it puzzling that a dancer who can make so much of the quarreling whore in Manon makes so little of bigger roles.

 

Each of the current Principals has a role or roles in which they are outstanding and are exemplary. Among the new appointments there are dancers who have shown that same level of individuality from the word go or have started to do so. There is at least one who has turned a rather lacklustre revival,  which more senior dancers had managed to make little of, into something quite extraordinary. Life is very unfair ten years ago Choe would probably have been promoted to Principal but it would, I fear, have been something of a stopgap appointment. With all the young talent in the company Mr O'Hare will not want to block the career development and promotion prospects of younger dancers who show the ability to dance in a stylistically appropriate manner and have real individuality in performance..

Edited by FLOSS
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Perhaps she is too wedded to the classroom version of the steps to adjust to the style required in performance. I don't know.

I don't know either but I think this could have something to do with it and this is what I was hinting at in my rather much less eloquent post earlier.

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The fact of the matter is that there are only so many 'slots' for principal dancers and the AD has to be mindful of those coming up behind. The RB has a very varied rep and the AD will want a mix of dancers who can excel in certain parts of the rep. Unfortunately for Choe, Takada has taken the 'classical' slot and I think that that is probably right because I think that Takada is a classical ballerina in the traditional sense of the word. Takada also appears to be more versatile then Choe as she has performed in modern works including those of Wayne McGregor. I fear that Choe's time has now passed. It's noticeable how many roles have passed her by. I think that Naghdi and Stix-Brunell will continue to get principal roles and will become principals in the next few years. I had wondered how far the latter would get as I thought that she was being a bit pigeonholed as a specialist in more contemporary work (a bit like Hamilton) but after her casting in 2P I think that she may get there.

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I love Ms Choe's performances.

Me too. I find that she draws and holds the eye and brings far more characterisation to her roles than Akane Takada who, for all her technical competence, does not move me at all. I saw Ms Takada's Kitri following upon Osipova's onstage fall and whilst she did a sterling job it lacked, for me, that additional and very necessary spark. I was, by way of contrast, far more engaged by Ms Choe's Aurora, I find her partnership with Alexander Campbell both delightful and convincing, I loved her characterful and uncharacteristic turn as Piaf at Acosta's Coliseum farewell and, as Ruth E's clips show, she is more than capable of turning in a stunning and memorable performance as Odette/Odile.

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