Goldenlily17 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 By the way all but 2 of the current batch of this year's graduating RBS students have got jobs of some sort inc apprenticeships - hardly needs saying that the ones still looking are girls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Well, my advice would be to enter more competitions to get noticed and make connections. Three ballet dancers who featured in BBC Young Dancer, two at ENBS (one Brit) and one who was a non-vocational student (another Brit and a girl), were taken on by Northern Ballet last year. Similarly, Melissa Hamilton, who was essentially privately trained after a fairly brief unhappy time at a UK vocational school - she even relocated to Athens for this purpose - was offered a position with the RB after she won a prize at YAGP. You've got to fight for what you want. You can't just sit back and wait for a contract to wing its way to you. If you are prepared to relocate overseas for training at 15 or 16, perhaps knowing little or no English and to a country you have never visited before, then you must have a huge amount of grit and determination, as well as talent. That's what British students/graduates are competing with. It's not a career for the faint hearted. RBS students have a big advantage over the students at the other schools in that the ADs from the English companies (I don't know about Scottish Ballet) come to observe them in their home studio, plus having the School on your CV opens doors to auditions that are closed to many others. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I'm sorry but "deserve to find corps de ballet jobs in this country". Does it mean that students trained elsewhere are somehow 'less deserving'? As that is how it comes across. Getting a contract as a ballet dancer is not necessarily about being the best and I agree that 'not good enough' is perhaps not an accurate phrase - but it is personal. Each director will know what he wants from his dancers - technique, expression, performance, look and I agree with Goldenlily that graduates should research prospective companies and their repertoire. I also don't really understand the preoccupation with 'in this country' if I am totally honest. A contract is a contract at the end of the day and how many people actually get the job they really want straight out of college. That is true well outside the world of ballet. The first job or first contract is just the first step of the ladder in the real world. I think also the fact that all but 2 of the current batch of RBS graduates have secured some sort of work is testamount to the quality of the training and the standard of these dancers. I cannot help but wonder how many students are due to graduate this summer from our dance colleges and universities in this position and how many are still searching and auditioning. I don't doubt that every school has its failings and areas that can be improved on but the onus is on the student too. The real world is a competitive place and nothing gets handed to you on a silver platter. Where you trained might help open doors but you still have to prove yourself the right person for the job/role etc. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 We have this discussion every year sadly. I still think it crazy that some schools don't allow their students to do comps but recruit from them all the time!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowblythe Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Not all dancers are even allowed to enter competions - the schools sometimes pick the students they want. Sadly those who need the exposure are least likely to be picked. And without the backing of the school - unless they are prepared to support the students with extra training, help with costuming, any support at all - it is a fairly meaningless(and expensive) exercise. If you think about it very few schools, vocational or otherwise, are entirely "fair" when it comes to handing out roles and opportunities, be it the end of year show, who is picked for productions, who is trained up for exams. The schools want to showcase the best, as they see it, and so the gap gets wider and wider ..... As one whose child has only rarely been picked, even from the early pre-vocational days, it's frustrating and sad, but it is the way of the ballet world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 To be honest, I don't think language ability affects an AD's decision whether to employ a dancer, it will be purely on what the dancer shows at an audition. No, but lack of language ability/lack of instruction in language acquisition skills/lack of experience of picking up foreign languages may prove a psychological barrier to anglophone students looking for training or work in non-English-speaking countries. This thread has gone thoroughly off course. Please can we get back to the original point, otherwise I may as well close it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabitha Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 By the way all but 2 of the current batch of this year's graduating RBS students have got jobs of some sort inc apprenticeships - hardly needs saying that the ones still looking are girls. If this is true then it is clearly inside information which is not appropriate for sharing on this forum. These are real students whose lives shouldn't be discussed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Please don't take this the wrong way, meadowblythe, and I am not referring to your child, but if a child is consistently overlooked for roles, shows, competitions or whatever *for years*, and in different settings, then could this be an indication that that child is lacking something or perhaps several things which will make it less likely that s/he will secure a contract on graduation? This is a genuine question and I hope that it does not cause offence. We love the underdog in the UK, and the tortoise who overtakes the hare, but I really don't think that other countries view things in the same way, particularly countries with a very competitive culture such as Australia where ballet competitions are just a way of life. I suspect that in many other countries the 'winnowing' process is far more vigorous, and self-imposed as well, so that aspiring dancers give up at an earlier stage if there are clearly lots of more talented dancers around. The ones who don't have what it takes don't make it as far as the UK for upper school training. In the UK it's seen as a bit distasteful to be openly competitive and ambitious but self-belief and self-promotion are prized in many other countries. But being self-effacing and modest will not get you very far. As with most fields of activity, if you give out the message that you are good then (perhaps surprisingly) people will generally believe the hype and this can make a real difference when there are narrow margins between you and the competition. I don't want to be too personal but I think that Tamara Rojo is an interesting example of someone who made it all the way to the top despite having some disadvantages working against her. She didn't train at one of the very top schools. She doesn't have the perfect ballet body and, according to her, was never the most flexible. She is not good in the air. She has said, memorably, that she was never the best dancer but was always the most bloody minded. However, she is a famously hard worker (she's put in not 10,000 hours but over 20,000), highly intelligent and passionate about art in general and the ADs she came across always recognised her as something special. When she steps out on the stage she tells you that she is a star. I think that Laurretta Summerscales has modelled herself on her boss and with I suspect some more work on her technique she now has a very assured and expansive stage presence which is helped by the fact that she is quite tall. She is now a principal. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldenlily17 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 I am very grateful for the opportunity to discuss openly this issue with people who have a great deal of knowledge and who share the same concerns about jobs for dancers, many of whom will be their own children. Thank goodness for this forum. It is an incredibly important subject and I have learnt a great deal since I started this discussion. The number of views this thread has been achieving in a short space of time suggests that other members are also deeply concerned about this issue. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowblythe Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I did not take it as a personal comment, but interestingly my DS has been offered a number of contracts, including year long professional ballet, on graduation. He had multiple MDS offers to chose from earlier in his career but as regular readers will know, I made a bad choice of school putting prestige and reputation far too high up the list of priorities. And in the case of that vocational school, a very few were chosen regularly for all opportunities, it was the majority who were not put in for competitions, solo parts in shows etc. The message is, possibly, to keep going, the "sheer bloody mindedness," is maybe the thing you need above all to succeed. So no, you won't see my son dance a solo in the graduation show. But you may see him dance one in the future. 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Well, my advice would be to enter more competitions to get noticed and make connections. Three ballet dancers who featured in BBC Young Dancer, two at ENBS (one Brit) and one who was a non-vocational student (another Brit and a girl), were taken on by Northern Ballet last year. Similarly, Melissa Hamilton, who was essentially privately trained after a fairly brief unhappy time at a UK vocational school - she even relocated to Athens for this purpose - was offered a position with the RB after she won a prize at YAGP. RBS student are not allowed to enter competitions Aileen, much to the chagrin of at least one we know personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat09 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 RBS student are not allowed to enter competitions Aileen, much to the chagrin of at least one we know personally. I thought the winner at YAGP this year (mens) was from RBS? GRAND PRIX Joonhyuk Jun The Royal Ballet School (UNITED KINGDOM/ REPUBLIC OF KOREA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaybackSapphire Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Does it mean that our children must take part in very expensive competitions to be noticed? "Big sigh"... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzpaws Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Huge sigh xx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldenlily17 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 Yes. It is true that the winner of the YAGP this year was 2nd year student from the RBS. They break their own rules if they want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Okay, this thread appears to have gone irretrievably off-topic, so I'm locking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I'm just briefly reopening this thread to remind people that if you are entitled to vote in the EU Referendum but aren't currently registered to vote, you have until this Tuesday, 7th June, to get yourself registered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I'm just briefly reopening this thread to remind people that if you are entitled to vote in the EU Referendum but aren't currently registered to vote, you have until this Tuesday, 7th June, to get yourself registered. Having just heard on the news that the deadline has been extended until tomorrow (Thursday) night because of technical problems on the website last night, I am correcting the information. This is absolutely the last chance for UK residents/citizens to make sure they have a say in their country's future. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I'm "cheating" and opening this up again briefly to add this item from today's Links page, since I imagine many of you don't visit it frequently. In The Spectator, Ismene Brown asks various ADs about the potential effect of a Brexit: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/royal-ballet-sadlers-wells-explain-brexit-will-hurt-dance/ 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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