Obsidian Tear (New McGregor)

[David]

Ditto - but never when I'm watching for example the works of Christopher Wheeldon or Liam Scarlett or David Bintley or Matthew Bourne!

Edited May 16, 2016 by David

[alison]

I was including at least one of those names

[billboyd]

Wayne's undies would be cheaper from M&S. 

[FLOSS]

But Bill a programme credit citing M and S as the source of his costumes would do terrible damage to Wayne's reputation. He might have to emigrate. From a practical point of view who would join him in the line up on the first night when the creative team come on stage?

 

As far as choreographers like Wheeldon, Scarlett and Bintley are concerned they may make bad ballets but I rarely feel that they are recycling a limited number of ideas. I may decide that  one of their ballets has not worked but I don't think that I have ever started to speculate on the amount of money spent on the sets and costumes during the first performance of one of their ballets. I have during performances of Wayne's "masterworks".

 

I know that tickets for triple bills are usually cheaper than those for full length works but it will be interesting to see how much the  tickets  for the more traditional mixed bills cost in comparison with the prices charged for the McGregor one. 

Edited May 16, 2016 by FLOSS

[alison]

Wayne's undies would be cheaper from M&S. 

 

Isn't that where he sourced them from for Qualia?

[Mary]

Yes-those very unattractive white vests and knickers-one of the worst ballet costumes ever seen, like something from Steptoe and Son.

[tabitha]

There's something a bit 'emperors new clothes' about WM (and in the spirit of WM, you can take that to mean the costumes or the choreography, or both - and pronounce it however you want!)

[bridiem]

There's something a bit 'emperors new clothes' about WM (and in the spirit of WM, you can take that to mean the costumes or the choreography, or both - and pronounce it however you want!)

 

Thank you tabitha! You've given me a laugh-out-loud start to my day. Now to hit the tube...

[bangorballetboy]

Wayne's undies would be cheaper from M&S. 

 

Anywhere except the place from which Rafa Nadal sources his!

[Jacqueline]

Anywhere except the place from which Rafa Nadal sources his!

But that Rafa undie adjustment move could easily be incorporated into Wayne's choreographic vision. Seamlessly perhaps?

[Don Q Fan]

I've been scratching my head trying to recall where I saw an account of a performance of McGregor's Infra (I think) in which the previously unnamed characters were given the names of the original performers, Lauren, Ed, Eric etc. Was it with the Mariinsky in Cardiff recently? Help me out someone!

Yes it was at Cardiff.

[Jacqueline]

Wayne's undies would be cheaper from M&S. 

Wayne's Undies. That must surely be the name of his next production.

[alison]

I believe Nadal now has an underwear contract with a major brand of men's underwear - I just can't remember which one.  I never thought it would be a good advert for any brand

[Jacqueline]

I believe Nadal now has an underwear contract with a major brand of men's underwear - I just can't remember which one.  I never thought it would be a good advert for any brand

Oh my, I assume it is supposed to be ironic given all the twitching and fiddling before every point? I believe he has a form of OCD, requiring him to go through  rituals on court, including lining his drinks bottles up just so, sticking his hair behind his ears and of course, fiddling with his pants. If it were just the pants thing, one could conclude his trollies are either the wrong size or he has them on back to front or even both.

Whatever the reason, I agree it is not a good advert for any brand. 

I do wonder sometimes how the vest and pants costumes stay in place, given all the writhing and contorting that dancers do. They are either made with incredibly strong elastic or glued on. The pants that is, not the dancers. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by Jacqueline

[bangorballetboy]

Oh my, I assume it is supposed to be ironic given all the twitching and fiddling before every point? I believe he has a form of OCD, requiring him to go through  rituals on court, including lining his drinks bottles up just so, sticking his hair behind his ears and of course, fiddling with his pants. If it were just the pants thing, one could conclude his trollies are either the wrong size or he has them on back to front or even both.

Whatever the reason, I agree it is not a good advert for any brand. 

I do wonder sometimes how the vest and pants costumes stay in place, given all the writhing and contorting that dancers do. They are either made with incredibly strong elastic or glued on. The pants that is, not the dancers. 

 

I understand most dancers use glue or rosin.

[Mary]

Glue??? it must be nasty peeling them off afterwards, ouch!

 

Sorry, this learned debate about choreographic style seems to have descended to a somewhat lower plane :-)

[SPD444]

-Before the discussion descended into talk of glue and underwear I was very much reminded about how "art" sometimes gets far to clever for itself.

 

For many years I was a complete movie buff, spending many, many hours watching films of all types. I loved the John Ford, Howard Hawks story telling and the Hitchcock horror genre. I then moved into the arty type of film, Bunuel, Godard, Renais. Then along came the experimental stull of Warhol and his ilk. I remember going to the National Film Theatre for a whole weekend, I mean a whole weekend. All day Saturday, All night Saturday and all day Sunday, watching films. I recall a film by Stan Brackage that was 9-1/2 hours long and showed the camera filming a wall with a very small postcard attached. During the time, the camera very slowly advanced towards the postcard and the soundtrack was of bits of conversation so at the end the postcard filled the whole screen. Your were encouraged during the film to go and get a bite to eat or go for a walk because you wouldn't actually miss anything.

 

The same with classical music. I have been to many concerts of Mozart, Mahler all the usual favourites, composers who were a little bit more modern I enjoyed - Walton, Britten etc. Then you got the experimental - Cage for example put a whole pile of hoovers on the stage and switched them on and off at different times.

 

So, on to Mcgregor. He is of the Cage and Brackage ilk to me. Ashton etc we all know and love. Wheeldon, Akram, new generation but still understandable, but this chap, like Cage and Brackage, explain their work with such obscure intellectual rubbish that people are fooled into thinking they are clever. I read, or tried to, the meaning of the title "Obsidian Tear" and thought how on earth can this be put to movement, the truth is it can't.

 

Hope I haven't offended anyone with my feelings, but I have to question the sense in spending lots of money on something that will probably never see the light of day again, except perhaps us because we paid for it.

 

I expect all the intellectuals out their will have a field day telling me what it all means, because it doesn't work for me.

[jules_skichick]

i'm with you spd444 - pretentious gobbledegook imo - no point in reading it - never makes a bit of sense to me! - however still going to 2 performances to see the dancers!!

[bridiem]

 

So, on to Mcgregor. He is of the Cage and Brackage ilk to me. Ashton etc we all know and love. Wheeldon, Akram, new generation but still understandable, but this chap, like Cage and Brackage, explain their work with such obscure intellectual rubbish that people are fooled into thinking they are clever. I read, or tried to, the meaning of the title "Obsidian Tear" and thought how on earth can this be put to movement, the truth is it can't.

 

Hope I haven't offended anyone with my feelings, but I have to question the sense in spending lots of money on something that will probably never see the light of day again, except perhaps us because we paid for it.

 

 

I agree with your initial reflections, SPD444, but equally I don't think it necessarily matters what a choreographer says about his/her work - what matters is the end product. And I try and go to new works in a spirit of hope; maybe Obsidian Tear will be enjoyable even if it bears no real relevance from the audience's point of view to the theoretical underpinning as put forward by the choreographer.

[Duck]

I am no geologist; from trying to understand the description on Wikipedia I have a picture of the creation of a form based on movements by different elements (aka dancers) at different speed and intensity and into different directions, something that I believe can indeed be shown through dance. I look forward to 28 May to finding out more.

 

 

Regarding the perceived low probability that Obsidian Tear will not be performed by other companies - both Infra and Chroma are in the repertoire of other companies; Tree of Codes will be performed at POB next season. Whether the same will apply to Obsidian Tear, time obviously will tell. However currently the piece has not even been premiered at the ROH yet so assuming that it will not be staged elsewhere is a bit early in my view.

 

 

There seems to be a lot of negative expectations in relation to Obsidian Tear in this thread. I like some of Wayne McGregor’s pieces more than others however I do watch his new creations with positive expectations, and I often leave the ROH thinking that I've really seen something that has not been there before.

 

[Jacqueline]

Glue??? it must be nasty peeling them off afterwards, ouch!

 

Sorry, this learned debate about choreographic style seems to have descended to a somewhat lower plane :-)

Perhaps they just sit in a bowl of warm water for ten minutes to release the glue! I really admire these dancers and what they have to go through for their art.

Meanwhile, back to Wayne. It has just come to my notice that one of his works - Atomos - is on in Sheffield shortly. I would appreciate anyone who has seen this letting me know what they thought. Sheffield is so close, I will go if it is likely to be worthwhile. I take it Atomos is about three years old?

[John Mallinson]

Here's a very enthusiastic review of Atomos from Luke Jennings, and here's a taster. 

[Jan McNulty]

I enjoyed it very much when I saw it in Liverpool last week. It lasts about 70 minutes without an interval. There are some wonderful dancers in the company.

[Coated]

I hated Atomos with the fierce passion of a thousand suns. I saw it a couple of years ago at Sadler's and felt the dancing was subsumed by an overwhelming wall of sound attempting to direct emotional responses. The rest of the audience seemed to love it judging by the applause I heard on my way out.

 

There is the possibility that I could have enjoyed it wearing industrial ear mufflers.

[Jan McNulty]

I hated Atomos with the fierce passion of a thousand suns. I saw it a couple of years ago at Sadler's and felt the dancing was subsumed by an overwhelming wall of sound attempting to direct emotional responses. The rest of the audience seemed to love it judging by the applause I heard on my way out.

 

There is the possibility that I could have enjoyed it wearing industrial ear mufflers.

 

 

I watched something many years ago at Sadler's Wells that had an electronic score.  The sound was absolutely awful - too loud and distorted for my taste.  I was fine with the sound at the Liverpool Playhouse last week.

 

Just a note re Atoms that I forgot to mention above.  There is a section where screens (not too large) are lowered from the ceiling for which you are offered 3D glasses.  I just can't see 3D so I declined.  I noticed that the lady sat on my left only used the glasses for a couple of minutes and then took them off.  The lack of being able to see the 3D action on the screens did not detract from my enjoyment of the evening.

[SPD444]

I am no geologist; from trying to understand the description on Wikipedia I have a picture of the creation of a form based on movements by different elements (aka dancers) at different speed and intensity and into different directions, something that I believe can indeed be shown through dance. I look forward to 28 May to finding out more.

 

 

 

Regarding the perceived low probability that Obsidian Tear will not be performed by other companies - both Infra and Chroma are in the repertoire of other companies; Tree of Codes will be performed at POB next season. Whether the same will apply to Obsidian Tear, time obviously will tell. However currently the piece has not even been premiered at the ROH yet so assuming that it will not be staged elsewhere is a bit early in my view.

 

 

 

There seems to be a lot of negative expectations in relation to Obsidian Tear in this thread. I like some of Wayne McGregor’s pieces more than others however I do watch his new creations with positive expectations, and I often leave the ROH thinking that I've really seen something that has not been there before.

 

 

Thank you Duck for your explanation of the geologist elements in the dance. Will we know which element each dancer is being, and how, will they be in blue for one element and green for another and what are they showing us. They move at different speeds and intensity to do what? Are they rushing for the last train home perhaps or the wife is waiting to serve dinner. Sorry, Duck, but why does McGregor think I am in the slightest bit interested in how "elements" rush about. It is rubbish. In Woolf Works he, in his own way, told three stories in dance form. Not so happy with the second but the first and third really brought out the emotion of the stories in a dance way.

 

I am going to the rehearsal, so could you advise me what you are looking forward to seeing then I can look for it as well and tell you whether I saw it or not?

[alison]

 Sorry, Duck, but why does McGregor think I am in the slightest bit interested in how "elements" rush about. It is rubbish.

 

Well, it's funny you should say that, but it seems to me that in recent years several other choreographers have been doing something similar.  Was it David Bintley and Mark Baldwin?

[Jan McNulty]

Well, it's funny you should say that, but it seems to me that in recent years several other choreographers have been doing something similar.  Was it David Bintley and Mark Baldwin?

Both! And don't forget Sharon Watson over at Phoenix!

 

I like what I have seen of WMcG's choreography. I would go as far as to say I was bowled over by Tree of Codes last year. I am very much looking forward to seeing Obsidian Tear.

[Jacqueline]

Thank you for all the feedback and links. Atomos doesn't ring any bells for me, although I must have heard of it at some point but just forgotten its existence.

I have read the review by Luke Jennings and have to say I am with Jennifer Homans on the subject of W.M. I watched the 'taster' and Atomos seems to remind me of Infra soundwise, particularly off putting to me if it is very loud.  The choreography is of course, familiar. In fact, having watched the taster, I feel I have seen and heard enough. 

I have looked again at the Lyceum website and the tickets are all under £20, which I suppose is a reflection of the shortness of the work. I notice the Balcony isn't even open for sale. Despite the closeness of the venue, I think I will save my money and time for NB's R&J in September.

[Duck]

Thank you Duck for your explanation of the geologist elements in the dance. Will we know which element each dancer is being, and how, will they be in blue for one element and green for another and what are they showing us. They move at different speeds and intensity to do what? Are they rushing for the last train home perhaps or the wife is waiting to serve dinner. Sorry, Duck, but why does McGregor think I am in the slightest bit interested in how "elements" rush about. It is rubbish. In Woolf Works he, in his own way, told three stories in dance form. Not so happy with the second but the first and third really brought out the emotion of the stories in a dance way.

 

I am going to the rehearsal, so could you advise me what you are looking forward to seeing then I can look for it as well and tell you whether I saw it or not?

 

I am afraid I find the tone of your post offensive.

 

My post described my own interpretation and not that of Wayne McGregor or anyone else. All I have seen is the recent Insight event and the Wikipedia article, both of which are available on the web. As a result, whether my interpretation applies or not, I don't know and I will find out on May 28.

 

Sincerely.

[bangorballetboy]

Thank you Duck for your explanation of the geologist elements in the dance. Will we know which element each dancer is being, and how, will they be in blue for one element and green for another and what are they showing us. They move at different speeds and intensity to do what? Are they rushing for the last train home perhaps or the wife is waiting to serve dinner. Sorry, Duck, but why does McGregor think I am in the slightest bit interested in how "elements" rush about. It is rubbish. In Woolf Works he, in his own way, told three stories in dance form. Not so happy with the second but the first and third really brought out the emotion of the stories in a dance way.

 

I am going to the rehearsal, so could you advise me what you are looking forward to seeing then I can look for it as well and tell you whether I saw it or not?

Might I suggest just going with an open mind?

[SPD444]

I am afraid I find the tone of your post offensive.

 

My post described my own interpretation and not that of Wayne McGregor or anyone else. All I have seen is the recent Insight event and the Wikipedia article, both of which are available on the web. As a result, whether my interpretation applies or not, I don't know and I will find out on May 28.

 

Sincerely.

 

 

I do apologise, that was not my intention to offend you or any reader. I will choose my words with more care in the future.

[bridiem]

I think that any dance work has to stand on its merits as a dance work, in terms of either pure movement or story-telling, not on how well or badly it reflects an idea or theory which the viewer may well know nothing about (and/or care less about). The most that can be said is that it can be interesting to know what a choreographer's starting point has been for an 'abstract' work.