Johan Kobborg no longer with ONB Romania

[SwissBalletFan]

For me personally, the more I hear of this, the more protests, the more dignitaries getting involved, and more social media posts, it's too much!

 

For dignity's sake JK and AC leave, walk out the door, don't turn around now.... you're not welcome anymore.

 

its embarrassing now, and to a point that I really have lost some respect for them. 

 

Slightly off topic.... Alina doing this, Osipova and Polunin doing their own crazy things, Zakharova not prioritising Bolshoi tour...please ballet gods, who should be my heroine now?

Edited April 13, 2016 by SwissBalletFan

[annamicro]

For me personally, the more I hear of this, the more protests, the more dignitaries getting involved, and more social media posts, it's too much!

 

For dignity's sake JK and AC leave, walk out the door, don't turn around now.... you're not welcome anymore.

 

its embarrassing now, and to a point that I really have lost some respect for them. 

 

Slightly off topic.... Alina doing this, Osipova and Polunin doing their own crazy things, Zakharova not prioritising Bolshoi tour...please ballet gods, who should be my heroine now?

I would stick on Roberto Bolle, I think he is perfect for the case.

[annamicro]

Paul Brummell says he is concerned...and Luke Jennings (on twitter) supports.

 

http://www.news.ro/cultura-media/paul-brummell-ambasadorul-marii-britanii-la-bucuresti-pe-twitter-sunt-preocupat-de-recentele-evolutii-de-la-opera-nationala-bucuresti-1922401313002016042315428399

[Don Q Fan]

For me personally, the more I hear of this, the more protests, the more dignitaries getting involved, and more social media posts, it's too much!

 

For dignity's sake JK and AC leave, walk out the door, don't turn around now.... you're not welcome anymore.

 

its embarrassing now, and to a point that I really have lost some respect for them.

 

Slightly off topic.... Alina doing this, Osipova and Polunin doing their own crazy things, Zakharova not prioritising Bolshoi tour...please ballet gods, who should be my heroine now?

Take a look at Dutch National Ballet's leading ladies, all good:-)

[Lilian88]

For me personally, the more I hear of this, the more protests, the more dignitaries getting involved, and more social media posts, it's too much!

 

For dignity's sake JK and AC leave, walk out the door, don't turn around now.... you're not welcome anymore.

 

its embarrassing now, and to a point that I really have lost some respect for them. 

 

Slightly off topic.... Alina doing this, Osipova and Polunin doing their own crazy things, Zakharova not prioritising Bolshoi tour...please ballet gods, who should be my heroine now?

In Italian we have an expression, something like "don't wash your dirty laundry in public"; It never liked me. True, there is a lot of media exposure, but it's also true that in these cases the alternative is often cover up the affair, so if dancers are tired of having to suffer in silence decisions made by others that impact on their lives, their art and professionalism and they seek the support of the public, I totally agree with them. After all we are talking about artists, not puppets!

Yes, the risk is to exaggerate, especially when you are emotionally involved and you are not able to evaluate things with the right coldness; it would certainly help the advice of a professional figure, but in this field is an almost unexplored territory...

[annamicro]

The new management announces the first cancellation...an "INTERNATIONAL gala": what a scandal. So I'm having my money back in few days...

 

http://www.operanb.ro/stiri/anunt-privind-anularea-galei-internationale-a-dansului-din-data-de-28-aprilie

[annamicro]

In Italian we have an expression, something like "don't wash your dirty laundry in public"; It never liked me. True, there is a lot of media exposure,

 

"Parlate della mafia. Parlatene alla radio, in televisione, sui giornali. Però parlatene"

(Paolo Borsellino)

 

On Romanian newspapers and TVs there is a great coverage for this issue, there are so many links I've not read them all yet! Generally they are supporting Kobborg position, but it has become more a problem of "public and common laundry" and the future they want to have as a country,

Of course cows can go on chomping grass happily to make good chocolate, they don't need to read Romanian news.

[Sim]

SwissBalletFan said: "For dignity's sake JK and AC leave, walk out the door, don't turn around now.... you're not welcome anymore."

 

 

I think they are very welcome....by the dancers, the creative team, the audiences and the media. The only people who don't consider them welcome (and probably never have) are the management who still seem to want to live in the past.

[SwissBalletFan]

"Parlate della mafia. Parlatene alla radio, in televisione, sui giornali. Però parlatene"

(Paolo Borsellino)

 

On Romanian newspapers and TVs there is a great coverage for this issue, there are so many links I've not read them all yet! Generally they are supporting Kobborg position, but it has become more a problem of "public and common laundry" and the future they want to have as a country,

Of course cows can go on chomping grass happily to make good chocolate, they don't need to read Romanian news.

 

 

SwissBalletFan said: "For dignity's sake JK and AC leave, walk out the door, don't turn around now.... you're not welcome anymore."

 

 

I think they are very welcome....by the dancers, the creative team, the audiences and the media. The only people who don't consider them welcome (and probably never have) are the management who still seem to want to live in the past.

 

 

Sorry, I think I should clarify what I meant by my post. I think that although the culture minister intervened and tried to mend the situation, the obvious fracture of relations between the interim management and JK/AC is seemingly at a point where they cannot work together.

 

I totally agree with the point that the dancers and ballet work in general would have loved for JK and AC to still be doing their great work at ONB.

 

So my point is that the ongoing escalation of attention and social media hype, what is the expected/ possible outcome of the continued attention? Soares gets fired and JK is back as a totally independent AD to do as he likes? I don't see that happening with all of the information out there, with strikes and protests, people being called liars, corrupt or xenophobic. 

 

Unless there is a view in Romania, that there is chance of a change, and a change that would help ONB as an institution in total, I feel that its all going a bit public and not helping anyone really. So its best to leave it alone. in my opinion.

 

 Us Swiss cows eating our grass and making chocolate are also allowed an opinion I hope annamicro.

[Fonty]

I have been reading this thread with increasing bewilderment and dismay.

 

Like others have said, it seems very odd for anyone in a position of responsibility to keep up a running commentary in public in this way. Surely the best way would have been to fight it out behind closed doors, and if a conclusion could not be reached that suited all parties, then those that wished to could resign and walk away.

 

After that, they can give their side of the story in as much detail as they like. But to air your side of things while discussions are still under way is completely wrong. If one of my work colleagues started ranting on Facebook or Twitter about discussions in meetings, and calling one of their co workers rude, stupid or whatever because they thought they were being insulted, I would expect them to be disciplined, at the very least.

[annamicro]

SwissBalletFan said: "For dignity's sake JK and AC leave, walk out the door, don't turn around now.... you're not welcome anymore."

 

 

I think they are very welcome....by the dancers, the creative team, the audiences and the media. The only people who don't consider them welcome (and probably never have) are the management who still seem to want to live in the past.

 

No, Sim, not all the performing people (I'm not using the word "artists") are with them. According to many comments these people has a very low level of performance and also productivity, but they have low wages and are protesting for this, as to destroy what of great was happening to the ballet company can change their status, paid by the state. They don't ask for more, they want less for everybody, including the audience: they, as you said, live in the past and don't want a future, maybe they think they don't deserve it.

Just imagine that a dancer on that side said "there are not dancers better than other" (it's in the newspapers).

Angela Gheorghiu is supporting them, she said she has never sang on the stage of Opera Bucharest and this is sad, I would wonder why, since she was not banned from the country and gave a charity concert at Bucharest Ateneu after that disaster in the disco, with lots of deaths.  I suspect (and Romanian friends too) that Opera Nationala Bucuresti was not able to pay her fee. Probably now her "Tibi" will find the money.

I'd like also to know why BillBoyd, from his comfortable chair in the UK, decided that Kobborg and Cojocaru (fighting for their company and their dancers, btw I've just been told that one of the not welcome foreigners will have his last show o Sunday, I suppose for his decision, anyway I hope he has already found another position) should shut up, but he likes that Gheorghiu posts on facebook talking of something she has never been part of.

The media are supporting the ballet company but without results for the moment, some Romanian dancers supports but (as Cojocaru wrote) not in public because they have fairs of the harsh attacks the ones who made public their position have already had inside the House.

 

The former minister of culture supports, the British ambassador supports. I'm sorry for neutral ballet typists if this disturbs them.

Edited April 14, 2016 by annamicro

[annamicro]

 Us Swiss cows eating our grass and making chocolate are also allowed an opinion I hope annamicro.

 

Cows are allowed opinions in every country, Especially, opinions of Indian cows are extremely respected.

[Sunrise]

In Italian we have an expression, something like "don't wash your dirty laundry in public"; It never liked me. True, there is a lot of media exposure, but it's also true that in these cases the alternative is often cover up the affair, so if dancers are tired of having to suffer in silence decisions made by others that impact on their lives, their art and professionalism and they seek the support of the public, I totally agree with them. After all we are talking about artists, not puppets!

Yes, the risk is to exaggerate, especially when you are emotionally involved and you are not able to evaluate things with the right coldness; it would certainly help the advice of a professional figure, but in this field is an almost unexplored territory...

 

 

I have been reading this thread with increasing bewilderment and dismay.

 

Like others have said, it seems very odd for anyone in a position of responsibility to keep up a running commentary in public in this way. Surely the best way would have been to fight it out behind closed doors, and if a conclusion could not be reached that suited all parties, then those that wished to could resign and walk away.

 

After that, they can give their side of the story in as much detail as they like. But to air your side of things while discussions are still under way is completely wrong. If one of my work colleagues started ranting on Facebook or Twitter about discussions in meetings, and calling one of their co workers rude, stupid or whatever because they thought they were being insulted, I would expect them to be disciplined, at the very least.

 

I feel like I agree with both viewpoints! On the one hand it seems politer to me to keep all negotiations in confidence until they are concluded. At the same time maybe management shouldn't be making suggestions to Kobborg that they would not themselves be happy to be aired in public. If there is any hint of corruption then complete transparency is the only way forward. It may seem unfair that Kobborg is able to whip up a lot of support from his fans and the public, but that kind of pressure is good if there is any wrongdoing.

[billboyd]

annamicro - I love Angela Gheorghiu! ....sorry, but I do!

[annamicro]

annamicro - I love Angela Gheorghiu! ....sorry, but I do!

 

Bill, you will be always be able to surprise me: I don't know how I cannot hate you even if I would love to be able to do that so often

Edited April 14, 2016 by annamicro

[Sunrise]

 

Some thought leader in the cultural world to step forward and denounce dangerous obscurantism of the Opera and the Ministry of Culture? NOT.

 

The only notable response came from British Ambassador, perhaps one of the many spectators attracted in recent years shows managed by Johan Kobborg.

 

Otherwise, silence.

 

Note that this scandal is at least as dangerous as Pink Pony scandal triggered by Antena 3 against him Patapievici. Then I saw even a solidarity reaction from intellectuals. Opera, everyone is silent good.

 

The scandal of the Opera is still a sign of resurgence of nationalism cave (I wrote about it at Marian Munteanu's designation as a candidate for mayor of Bucharest PNL). Dan Tapalaga he writes about a long sequence of events with an extremely strong nationalist connotation. Romania is on the wrong track and I'm afraid that there are people or groups in the midst of Power (executive, legislative) that follow a precise script.

 

If we keep silent in the face of these events, and we'll have our part to blame. All the great changes in the river were accompanied by guilty silence those who believed that their can not be anything happening

 

I agree but I have a feeling that many are confused and waiting to hear more. I've read about the protests outside the theatre but heard almost nothing from the dancers themselves. There's not much information from the management side and it is mostly poorly translated. 

[annamicro]

I agree but I have a feeling that many are confused and waiting to hear more. I've read about the protests outside the theatre but heard almost nothing from the dancers themselves. There's not much information from the management side and it is mostly poorly translated. 

 

Dancers are really threatened at the moment. Cojocaru tweeted a beautiful photo of the group of protesting dancers hugging her all together and there are several Romanians (and also in other photos), some are posting a lot on Facebook, but many, as Alina wrote, even if supporting her and Johan have fear to take a public position. An heritage of fear and silence it's hard to contrast, even after 26 years since the Revolution (also because many things don't seem to have changed that much, including old people in ballet relevant positions)

[annamicro]

Has just been published a petition is support of Kobborg, if somebody want to try to help just a little bit and sign, here are  the link and the translation

 

http://www.petitieonline.com/artistii_si_publicul_il_sustin_pe_johan_kobborg_si_echipa_lui

 

Performers and audience support Johan Kobborg and his team at the Bucharest National Opera

 

We do not understand why we have to make changes when things are well done and the result of some people is that viewers who fill every representation of a ballet hall Romanian Opera and enjoy every day, along with their children. In the last two years and half the rooms were full, often shows being "sold out".
We do not understand why when viewers come to the Romanian Opera ballet with original choreography with carefully studied scenography, costumes beautiful with good artists want to cancel the entire effort.
We do not understand the injustice that could be made given that every artists scheduled show many times, each time with a different cast for each role of the main preparing at least three artists.
We do not understand why there can not be very good competition and promoting artists, as there are everywhere around us.
Do not understand how you can not enjoy the good things that happen and the Romanian Opera, the scene in the last two years and half were 5 premieres ballet.
Do not understand how you can not appreciate that just because artists on stage I could have invited artists from major ballet companies from other countries.
We do not understand how a collaboration with Covent Garden anyone not enjoy.
We do not understand how one can reproach material gain "huge" compared to others, but the results and assessments are unseen. It is not serious the situation as a whole, but only part of it that, indeed, viewed separately could arouse envy.
We do not understand why until now, every premiere everyone waited anxiously show hall was full and there was every representation only words of praise, and now everything is forgotten and dismayed.
We do not understand why there is a mandatory mediation situations such as in a relationship for two. If there is something to be saved, we must try not to save?
We do not understand what good could bring such a change. Top Artists, Top choreographers, set designers better, best dresser?

We do not understand...

 

The fields to complete:

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[annamicro]

Want to put your signature to the public? Yes No

 

Bill, you can sign: Angela will never know ;-)

 

And she will have more time to come to London :-D

[John Mallinson]

A message in this thread has been hidden as it is in breech of our guidelines regarding quoting from other sources. Such a complete repost of an article from another source (albeit in Google mistranslation) is not acceptable. If you wish to reference articles elsewhere you may give brief quotations and a link, no more than that.

[annamicro]

A message in this thread has been hidden as it is in breech of our guidelines regarding quoting from other sources. Such a complete repost of an article from another source (albeit in Google mistranslation) is not acceptable. If you wish to reference articles elsewhere you may give brief quotations and a link, no more than that.

as a moderator can you cancel the translation? and leave just the initial quote?

[John Mallinson]

If you wish to repost it with just the link and some introductory text by all means do so.

[SwissBalletFan]

I have just read the history and Facebook post about JK leaving Royal Ballet here

 

May I ask the british continent on the forum why Kevin O'hare was not hung, drawn and quartered after his (sarcastically) 'terrible' treatment before JK and AC cancelled their last performance?

 

How was it, that this was not mentioned in parliament nor that the Queen was required to get involved? All British subjects should be ashamed of themselves as non-action is a witness of not changing the shameful state of the management at RB?

 

The fact that JK can say ' I wish never to see the staff of Royal Ballet again (excluding dancers).' 

 

I am not talking about the reasons behind them leaving, and it has been requested not to be discussed. I mention this just about the reaction of JK regarding management seems very similar to this situation now.

[Sim]

The difference is that JK did NOT, and never has, spoken in public about why he left the RB so abruptly, so how can anyone express opinions against O'Hare, Mason, or JK himself if they weren't told what happened? In this case, we have a very good idea of what happened, and that enables people to formulate an opinion.

[annamicro]

the first Vlad (minister Alexandrescu) blames nationalism and xenophoby and confirms that meetings with all the party are ongoing

 

"I distanțez claims with hue of nationalist, xenophobic and anti-European circulated the public in recent days....."

 

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=520897054748206&id=468508013320444&fref=nf

[SwissBalletFan]

The difference is that JK did NOT, and never has, spoken in public about why he left the RB so abruptly, so how can anyone express opinions against O'Hare, Mason, or JK himself if they weren't told what happened? In this case, we have a very good idea of what happened, and that enables people to formulate an opinion.

 

Not about the reason of leaving. However the reaction to O'Hare not giving a handshake or hug, and they had to get a bus to the airport, was made public in Facebook and with a message stating he felt mistreated and never wished to see him them again. A bit of an overreaction no? Similar maybe to name being deleted from the website?

 

I like JK, and AC very much...I think they have done wonderful things. I just feel that the reaction of people trying to get prime ministers, culture ministers, ambassadors involved, followed by protests and public questioning of the whole Romanian system is somewhat an overreaction in my opinion.

 

Considering he was offered a newly made AD role, and wasn't fired, I don't quite see what the 'people' are asking for....Soares has already been replaced and demoted. 

Edited April 14, 2016 by SwissBalletFan

[mola]

Facts are : the Minister of Culture created a position just for JK, which first he accepted and then he turned it off.

He sent his resignation by fax - his resignation was accepted.

 

What's the use of the petition? JK has already decided for himself. Whatever is going on right now is called a media circus.

[annamicro]

Facts are : the Minister of Culture created a position just for JK, which first he accepted and then he turned it off.

He sent his resignation by fax - his resignation was accepted.

 

What's the use of the petition? JK has already decided for himself. Whatever is going on right now is called a media circus.

 

he has not decided yet, he shared Alexandrescu post and this mean they agree on it and they are going on working to resolve the situation. Have you read it? it's in Romanian ...(it's quite clasr also in the translation).

Sometime one wins just because the adversary is less clever: Kobborg made some mistakes here, but somebody made even more and the game is still ongoing.

The media circus put the eyes on Romania ad accusation of xenophoby and nationalism are a problem in Europe, I'm sure you know, The government cannot allow this.

[mola]

If he has not decided, why did he fax his letter? Just to create media pressure? I would call this blackmail.

[Geoff]

For the confused there are some useful comments (among some less useful ones) here:-

 

http://slippedisc.com/2016/04/bucharest-crisis-angela-gheorghiu-speaks-out/#comments

[tabitha]

I have been reading this thread with increasing bewilderment and dismay.

 

Like others have said, it seems very odd for anyone in a position of responsibility to keep up a running commentary in public in this way. Surely the best way would have been to fight it out behind closed doors, and if a conclusion could not be reached that suited all parties, then those that wished to could resign and walk away.

 

 

 

Dancers are really threatened at the moment. Cojocaru tweeted a beautiful photo of the group of protesting dancers hugging her all together and there are several Romanians (and also in other photos), some are posting a lot on Facebook, but many, as Alina wrote, even if supporting her and Johan have fear to take a public position. An heritage of fear and silence it's hard to contrast, even after 26 years since the Revolution (also because many things don't seem to have changed that much, including old people in ballet relevant positions)

 

It's understandable that many have expressed dismay at the fact that this is playing out in public, but we have to remember that we are not in the UK, where we are used to dealing with things in a fairly civilised and rational manner in private. This is country where there is still a strong legacy to the past communist regime and a 'ministry of truth' approach to events. I would think that a public campaign is the only negotiating leverage left for JK. In fact he says on one of his posts that he would not be doing this if he were not in Romania. Even then, I am not sure how effective it is in Romania as they are a county which has internet censorship in place, similar to Russia, and which is contrary to EU regulation.

[mola]

I really don't understand this. One day you resign and the next day you negotiate?

 

What a pressure on the Minister who first created the position and now wants to negotiate a resignation based on an international media scandal.

 

How would it feel if this was happening in UK and instead of JK was an anonymous or someone you don't necessary admire that much?

[assoluta]

Even then, I am not sure how effective it is in Romania as they are a county which has internet censorship in place, similar to Russia, and which is contrary to EU regulation.

Does it?