taxi4ballet Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I've watched similar - seeing my daughter, husband and mother-in-law contorting themselves into unlikely poses... When Twister becomes an Olympic sport I'm entering them as a team! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amos73 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Dr Dance what is number one on the diagram meant to be checking for? Hypermobile head??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 No 1 is bending over with straight legs and putting palms flat on the floor. Like touching toes only more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amos73 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Ah, I see. I can do that after a good yoga class but I am most definitely not hyper mobile. I thought that would just be having open hamstrings, but what would I know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Just been having a conversation with dd about this thread and strength in controlling swaybacks and she said "If you have over swaybacks you have to control it but mine aren't that bad". 'Over swaybacks' ... the mind boggles Edited February 4, 2016 by taxi4ballet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petalviolet Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Dr Dance what is number one on the diagram meant to be checking for? Hypermobile head??? A petalviolet question if ever I saw one. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumToTu Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) sway back just sounds so nice, other children have said to dd what's wrong with your elbows or legs, fingers or that's horrible ergh I can't look etc ???? Jokingly of course Edited February 4, 2016 by Snowflake 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 And the knuckle-cracking... eeeeewww!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petalviolet Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Oh yes we've had a "you're disgusting" comment from another child once. DD just rolled her tongue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petalviolet Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 My other half and knuckle cracking! God! And every finger joint too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Dd does this thing with her head where she gets hold of it and yanks it sideways to crack her neck. I run screaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumToTu Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) The finger cracking is the worst, I have had to ban dd from finger cracking, she does it constantly!! apparently she needs to crack her fingers and knees it sounds horrible! Edited February 4, 2016 by Snowflake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amos73 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 A petalviolet question if ever I saw one. I've been spending too much time in your (virtual) company. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petalviolet Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I am a bad influence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petalviolet Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Finger cracking ugh. It's one quick and easy way to provoke a PV room exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) That's interesting - most teachers I know (including my own teacher training with the RAD) discourage this practice as it throws the body weight back beyond the heels, and encourages dancers to 'sit' into their swaybacks rather than activating the quadriceps and hamstrings. But I do know from watching videos of the Vaganova academy that they seem to work with their weight further back so perhaps its a difference in training styles! On a different tangent: The 9 point testing scale for hypermobility is called the Beighton scale, and is used, in part, to assess if someone has a hypermobility syndrome: (Images 2-5 are tested on both sides; so it all adds up to 9) This is really interesting to me but I'm so pathetic at understanding what diagrams are trying to tell me (I even have to stop and think when I go into a loo if it is ladies or gents) and apart from palms flat to the floor and bent back thumb, I can't see what the other diagrams are showing as examples of hyper extension. Please could someone knowledgeable add some words? Thank you! Edited February 4, 2016 by Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Agree, cracking fingers???? The tests on the Beighton scale are meant to be done with no warm up at all and you'd need at least 4/9 to be considered hypermobile. I guess the bending over is looking for hypermobile back?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdance Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 #1 is palms on the floor, feet together. #2 is elbows that hyperextend. #3 is knees that hyperextend. #4 is being able to pull thumb to wrist #5 is being able to bend the top of the little finger backwards. Petalviolet and Amos73 - your comments had me laughing out loud!!!! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TabbyCool Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) This is really interesting to me but I'm so pathetic at understanding what diagrams are trying to tell me (I even have to stop and think when I go into a loo if it is ladies or gents) and apart from palms flat to the floor and bent back thumb, I can't see what the other diagrams are showing as examples of hyper extension. Please could someone knowledgeable add some words? Thank you!Number 2 is hypermobile elbows, which is when the arms lock and go beyond straight, they essentially bend the wrong way, like swayback knees but in the arms. I have elbows like that, if I lock my elbow with my palm facing down, the inside of my elbow faces upwards. Number 3 is swayback knees, when the knees are locked the legs are bent slightly the wrong way, it makes it more difficult to hold your weight on the balls of your feet as the angle of the leg pushes the weight onto the heels more. Number 5 is a pinkie finger pulled back further than 90 degrees. Doh, drdance beat me to it! Oh, also, I score 6 on the Beighton scale, my pinkies don't extend beyond 90 degrees and I can only pull my left thumb back! Edited February 4, 2016 by TabbyCool 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Is it abnomal to be able to get elbows facing up, palms down then? I know one of my elbows looks bent but perhaps they're both dodgy then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 For the elbows one - stand with arms out to the side with the palms and the inside crook of your elbows facing up. Look at your arms in the mirror. If the elbows bend downwards beyond straight then the elbows are hypermobile. Hope that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The bingo wings confuse the line somewhat???????? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 More book material I would think PV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate_N Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 My teacher is constantly telling me to straighten my legs so my heels can touch in first position Gosh, I can't see you, and I'm not your teacher, but you should never "lock" your knees if you're hyperextended. You have to learn quite a different way of working if you have hyperextended joints. They may give a nice line IF ( a big if) the dancer knows how to work with them, but there are general issues of strength and control with hyperextended knees. Definitely NOT a requirement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Thank you for the helpful words. I have had to explain to my husband exactly what I was doing as I looked at my own joints this morning! ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate_N Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 And yes, thanks to all for such a fascinating discussion. I'm very very mildly hyperextended according to DrDance's information. Palms flat on the floor is easy, and so is my heels coming off the floor with knees extended. But I've always seen that as "normal" flexibility. I have a family member who's a professional ballet dancer who is hyperextended, and they really had to work for strength and control, and not push back into the knees. It was definitely much harder for them, and a constant pressure to work carefully to avoid injury, and also to keep weight forward and not sink in the lower back & into the quads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 So intetested by this thread my dd is hyper mobile, wears orthotics in her shoes, has slighty swayback knees but not overly so. Also her elbows. She's been told to focus on controlling everything from her hips and pulling up at her knees more. We've been told too about strengthening exercises for her to do with core. Still trying to understand it all really 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Annaliesey, that all sounds good advice and she obviously has an understanding teacher who is working with her on her strength and placement 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Primrose , was that in Russia? I personally teach students to stand with heels touching in 1st, and to activate their quads to 'pull up' without locking back. This website has some great images and is really useful for explaining how I prefer to manage hyperextended knees: http://danceproject.ca/managing-knee-hyperextension-in-dancers/#.VrO3GvmLTIU This image shows the line of body weight distribution - on the left, 'giving in' to the swayback shows how the body weight falls predominantly through the kneecap whereas on the right all the weight is borne through the whole joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 It was when she was a RBS associate and then a private tutor who was a ballet mistress to BRB who first taught her to maintain a gap. This was also encouraged at the Bolshoi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I was thinking about this question of swaybacks possibly being desirable and thinking that if they were then surely one of the photos in the required application would seek them out, but the photos they ask for wouldn't show this would they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 This might be a really stupid question so if it is,forgivesies. Is it only desirable in females to have sway back legs? Do any male dancers have them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amos73 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I was thinking about this question of swaybacks possibly being desirable and thinking that if they were then surely one of the photos in the required application would seek them out, but the photos they ask for wouldn't show this would they? They would be able to see from the picture of the student standing side on feet in parallel. I don't think they are a 'requirement' as such, but I definitely think they are something that they notice and generally like, if not too extreme. I asked DDs physio yesterday, who used to do physio assessments for WL, and she said they obviously make an attractive line, but are harder to work with. If they are extreme they can cause real problems including bleeds inside the knee (which sounds horrible!) and in that case they would make someone unsuitable for training. However, she said they are by no means necessary for training as a classical dancer. Interestingly we went to watch year 9 at WL on open day in October and of the girls in the class I would say all bar a few did have them to have some degree. The boys less so, but some did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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