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Don Q Fan Operas vary a great deal in length the longer the opera the earlier the performance starts whether they are being performed in London at the ROH OR ENO or in Munich or Vienna. Here are a few famous non Wagner operas that start at 7pm three by Mozart The Marriage of Figaro; Cosi Fan Tutte; Don Giovanni and a couple by Richard Strauss that start even earlier Der Rosenkavalier and Die Frau Ohne Schatten and then there is the revised version of Mussorsky's Boris Gudonov and his Khovanchina and Prokoviev's' War and Peace. An 8pm start is not going to work for an opera that has a running time of four plus hours unless public transport runs well after midnight.

 

Some opera performances start at 8pm but that only happens when really short works like Strauss's Elektra and Salome are being performed.

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Maybe we should move this to the opera thread, but I remember some wonderful, but long. Wagner performances when dear old Reginald Goodall was alive. He was slow. I also remember that the ROH never allowed him to conduct a performance but he would do all the rehearsals until the "named" conductor turned up, it was left to the English National to allow him on the podium. Shame on the ROH because he was a conscientious objector during the war they would not allow it.

 

 

Sorry mods, completely off topic. Having a senior moment.

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Not entirely true SOD444. I've a recording of Goodall conducting Das Rheingold at the ROH taken from a 1975 broadcast and there is also a 1971 Parsifal conducted by him with Vickers and Shuard that the ROH released in its own label ....

Apologies to all for my error.

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Reading the comments in the Giselle thread regarding the universal themes of betrayal and forgiveness in this ballet and 'the grass is always greener' in La Sylphide reinforced my initial impressions that Strapless ultimately fell down through failing to explore these and other universal themes. If Amelie's contemporaries had been shown to be envious of her rise within society and the way in which she was regarded (and in a deeper and less clicheed way than mere finger-pointing and turning away - the bar and the can-can wasn't the only cliche here!) I really do think that this ballet could have worked very well. Coming back to the music, and I have nothing against the Turnage score as such - it was pleasant enough and evoked something of the period and setting - I still feel that there was insufficient differentiation to help establish and develop character. All of the truly successful ballet music paints a different mood for each character and the emotions that they are seeking to portray.

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Apart from the need for sufficient choreographic skill to create a ballet a choreographer making a narrative work needs to choose a story that can be told in dance. Wheeeldon chose this story so I expected more evidence than I saw on stage with either cast that he could create individual characters through his choreography and that he or his dramaturge had chosen events that would tell the story of Amelie's portrait effectively. He seemed distracted by characters who were really only peripheral to Amelie's fall from grace. He failed to establish the type of society in which she was trying to make her mark. He failed to create effective stage characters who reveal themselves through their choreography, body language and gesture.He does not seem to have thought out how he was going to portray high society's response to her. Perhaps the truth is that he spent too long in the US dancing in abstract works to have got to grips with what makes Ashton, Cranko and Macmillan so successful in creating character through dance.

 

I seem to recall that MacMillan said that he had learnt how to make ballets from watching Ashton at work. According to Alexander Grant Massine was the choreographer whose works you had to understand in order to understand Ashton. That comment suggests to me that at the very least a knowledge of demi character ballets and how they work from having seen and danced in them is a good starting point for any one who wants to create a narrative work. That is the type of ballet with which Wheeldon has had little or no contact during his career as dancer or choreographer. Massine is treated as hopelessly old fashioned nothing of his has been danced on the main stage since the 1980's. The other source of inspiration, not obviously demi character, but still relying on the ability of movement. placing and space to create character and establish relationships between them is Antony Tudor performances of whose works are very limited anywhere.

 

Choreographers learn from other choreographers. They take other people's ideas and rework them. Subsisting on a diet of Balanchine and Robbins is clearly not enough to turn a talented creator of abstract works into one who is adept at making narrative ballets. Wheeldon's Alice is successful but it is more of an entertainment than a real ballet and would still benefit from pruning. The caucus race could disappear and few would notice its loss . The dancing in Alice rarely arises out of the situation or the need to develop the story. It generally arises from the need to give a character or characters something to do. The final pas de deux adds nothing to the ballet and is singularly lacking in human feeling. That the Winters Tale is better has, I think, far more to do with the structure of the play on which it is based than on any advance in Wheeldon's abilities as a story teller. Only Leontes has movements which are unique to him, a great deal of the rest of the choreography is interchangeable between characters. There is very little difference between the athletic choreography for Perdita and Florizel and that for the country folk at the sheep shearing celebrations.At no point are you made aware of the royal status of Perdita and Florizel or their love for one another. It will be interesting to see if Wheeldon has made any revisions when it is next staged.

 

The two abstract works in this triple bill only served to emphasise the weaknesses in Strapless. I am not convinced that a great deal can be done to remedy its weaknesses. It might be better to abandon the initial idea and try to create something more coherent with the music and the designs and treat this run as an out of town preview. That probably is not an option as it is a co-production with the Bolshoi and almost certainly intended as a vehicle for Osipova.

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Massine is treated as hopelessly old fashioned nothing of his has been danced on the main stage since the 1980's.

Choreartium is Massine, isn't it? BRB danced that at Covent Garden sometime in the early 90s, I think - although of course it's a plotless work.

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I absolutely loved Choreartium.  As well as Joseph Cipolla, Kevin O'Hare was also wonderful in this plotless ballet.

 

If he revived Two Pigeons, in which he was a wonderful Young Man, perhaps he would consider reviving Choreatium too as I gather it is unlikely to be revived by BRB.  Come to think of it, Kevin O'Hare was an outstanding Edward II...

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.........and he scored very highly as both Sergeant Troy and Albert Prosser (and earlier as Fred Beanstock) as well. I have to say that I remain slightly surprised that Hobson's Choice has never been taken up by other companies. I am not sure it would fit at the Opera House, for all that it was premiered there, but I still think it is a cracking night out.

 

I am sorry that Choreatium is probably lost to BRB now but it is an important work so it should not be lost to the wider ballet world.

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Choreatium was revived by BRB in 1993/1994. It was  performed at Sadler's Wells not I think at Covent Garden. The revival won at least one award a  fact that was recorded  in the Arts Council report for 1994. I have often wondered why it was not revived and came to the conclusion some time ago that it was probably because it made a lot of the ballets created at that time look rather weak. As far as revivals of Massine's works at Covent Garden are concerned the last one was Mam'zelle Angot which was revived in 1980 and had certainly disappeared from the repertory by the mid eighties. I know that the general consensus among those who had seen it in the 1950's was that the 1980 revival lacked the comic edge that the 1950's casts had given it..

 

I'm afraid I'm not a great enthusiast for David Bintley's ballets. When young he was very promising but for me he has never progressed beyond "promising" and he is a bit old for that label now. He is a very good artistic director and resident company choreographer. He makes works which develop and display his company to good effect but he is  a good jobbing choreographer not a dance maker of genius.   His abstract ballets are not objectionable but I find the majority of them instantly forgettable once I have left the theatre. I have the same problem with the majority of Wheeldon's  abstract works  and  I would have much the same problem with McGregor's output were it not  for the amount of money that is spent on their design. 

 

As far as Bintley's  full length works are concerned I think that I have seen nearly all of them but the only one that I think might survive is Hobson's Choice which strangely enough is a  demi character work. .I strongly suspect that Bintley took his inspiration from the film as the characters are so clearly and deftly drawn. As to why it  has not travelled the play on which it is based is, like Hindle Wakes, very much the product of British provincial life a century or more ago. I'm not sure how well known either play is today If a ballet is based on an unfamiliar play or story I am not sure that you can expect it to travel that widely however good it is..  

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Apologies for bringing the thread back on topic, :) 

 

I just wanted to ask if Amelie Gautreau's mother features in the production much/at all?  I read swiftly back through the reviews, but I can't quite get the full picture of who does and doesn't feature on the stage, apart from the female lead and the 3 male parts.  

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Choreatium was revived by BRB in 1993/1994. It was  performed at Sadler's Wells not I think at Covent Garden.

 

It was Covent Garden, actually. although the preformance data base doesn't list it - July 1993. And since then - May 1995 - BRB also danced Le Tricorne at Covent Garden.

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Apologies for bringing the thread back on topic, :)

 

I just wanted to ask if Amelie Gautreau's mother features in the production much/at all?  I read swiftly back through the reviews, but I can't quite get the full picture of who does and doesn't feature on the stage, apart from the female lead and the 3 male parts.  

 

No need to apologise, Fonty :)

 

And, no, not unless her surname is Avegno, which I somehow doubt, given that the character in question appears to be a friend rather than a parent.

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Apologies for bringing the thread back on topic, :) 

 

I just wanted to ask if Amelie Gautreau's mother features in the production much/at all?  I read swiftly back through the reviews, but I can't quite get the full picture of who does and doesn't feature on the stage, apart from the female lead and the 3 male parts.

 

I thought that the Elizabeth McGorian character (in the Osipova cast) is supposed to be her mother? Mind you, I spent much of the 45 minutes totally baffled so I am probably mistaken..

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Ah, ok, thanks for that.  Having read a rough outline of the Davis story, it would appear that Amelie was happy with the portrait, and it was actually her mother who created all the fuss about it.  I am surprised that the mother wasn't given a more definitive role in the proceedings, possibly even a dancing role, rather than a character one. 

 

As other people have said, this is a great story, and has the makings of a wonderfully dramatic ballet.  Maybe he just got the mix of characters wrong? 

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After several viewings, I still feel the need in Strapless for:

 

  • Amelie to be more fully established at the outset as 'the toast of society' - perhaps via a glimpse into the 'high life' of her set; and
  • for the other characters to be fleshed out more

However, in some respects, I find myself growing into the piece, not least the music and Osipova's increasingly relaxed interpretation.

 

Within The Golden Hour remains simply lovely and the roster of supporting men (ever changing, it seems) and women are a delight.

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After several viewings, I still feel the need in Strapless for:

  • Amelie to be more fully established at the outset as 'the toast of society' - perhaps via a glimpse into the 'high life' of her set; and
  • for the other characters to be fleshed out more
However, in some respects, I find myself growing into the piece, not least the music and Osipova's increasingly relaxed interpretation.

 

Yes - please let's not give up on this ballet - I'm rather shocked at the negativity of some on this forum.

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I'm not sure that Strapless can be successfully reworked. I feel that it (along with some other modern creations) is a slave to its set designs. It makes me wonder whether the designs were decided on first and the choreography fitted into those designs. If the work had been performed on a bare stage with rudimentary props eg a canvas and a couch how compelling would the choreography and acting have been? My guess is: not very. I believe that the work relies too much on elaborate staging for its effect. I found the ballet repetitive. There were several scenes which seemed to show the same thing eg Sargent painting, Amelie dancing on her own, a frame or canvas being moved around (for no particular reason other than to create movement on the stage), the faceless corps watching / disapproving of Amelie. It might have been better to have a linear narrative.

 

I'm sure that Strapless will be staged again, not least because the costs of mounting it must be enormous. It's only fair to say that the run has been a commercial success as it has sold out.

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The ones which make constructive comments (including my own!) are not negative. I refer to those - and there are both short and tediously long examples - where the ballet has been simply trashed.

E everyone is entitled to their opinion, Vanartus, and for you to refer to other peoples' posts as 'tedious' is rude and not acceptable on this forum. If posters want to 'trash' a piece that they have seen that is just as acceptable as praising it.

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E everyone is entitled to their opinion, Vanartus, and for you to refer to other peoples' posts as 'tedious' is rude and not acceptable on this forum. If posters want to 'trash' a piece that they have seen that is just as acceptable as praising it.

 

As the saying goes, " It's not what you do. it's the way that you do it".

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