Jan McNulty Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 On various threads people have spoken about how speeds of dances have altered (usually slowed down) over the years. In a recent article about NYCB’s Nutcracker Alastair Macaulay included links to Danilova and Markova dancing Sugarplum. He also gives a quote from Margot Fonteyn’s autobiography about Frederick Ashton talking about watching both dancers rehearsing this role. The Danilova clip is from the Jacob’s Pillow Archive. The Markova clip is on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBknFnVu7Hw Here is also a clip of Yoshida in the RB’s production from Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K65lcuHQn-E And here is a BRB rehearsal clip Would anyone like to give some thoughts on these 4 performances? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Pigeons Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) What an interesting exercise Janet. I found the relative slowness of the ladies from BRB something of an eye opener. I had not appreciated how much the performances have slowed down. These things are so gradual you don't notice it. Markova takes the palm for me. I am always grateful for any film of her performances as they are always illuminating. Edited December 30, 2015 by Two Pigeons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Pigeons Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 P.s. I see Macaulay continues his long term habit of missing no opportunity to take a swipe at Sir Peter Wright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 I must admit that it was the Markova clip that most grabbed me. I found Danilova too strident for my taste. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 can't watch at work, but will do so at home. But I already know the result for me - and that's Miyako Yoshida! (So no bias there at all.... ahem) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 For me it is definitely the Markova clip that is the best. It gives the lie to the assertion that the early 20th century dancers had less technique than today. The two slower more recent clips seem almost more like a classroom exercise in comparison. I was also interested to see that both the Danilova and Markova versions have the second relevé to pointe during the passé to arabesque. It comes after the relevé with battus sur le cou de pied at the end of the first little courus. At some time in the past this was simplified to a swivel en fondu for the early Royal Ballet productions and was never restored. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toursenlair Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 If Miyako Yoshida'a is "like some classroom exercise", aall I can say is ... some classroom! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Watching those clips, I was a huge fan of Yoshida, and it made me long to see her dance the variation at the same speed as Markova. I am sure she would have danced it wonderfully. I've never really liked the SPF solo in recent years, because I have always thought it felt slightly ponderous. Now I know why. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I really like most of it - except those ugly gougiliades (sp???) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Dave, I was going to edit my post to say that the gargouillades are probably one of the ugliest steps in ballet. No idea what their purpose is, but I for one would be ultra happy never to see another one again! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 They are horrible and unfeminine and totally out of place in classical choreography. I too would be very happy never to see another one, ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillykins Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 They are horrendous to do! Mind you it is a very long time since I struggled with them. The drafted second leg never has enough time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOSS Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) If you want to know who to blame for the technical hurdles in the SPF's solos in the traditional choreography in act 2 of the Nutcracker then you can blame Antonietta Dell'Era's formidable technique and Lev Ivanov for being too compliant in supplying choreography which displayed it. Although the first night was one of those occasions when opera lovers were dissatisfied by the inclusion of a new ballet in the programme and ballet goers by the inclusion of a new opera which opened the evening the balletomanes had other grounds for complaint. There were many who were unhappy because the grand pas de deux did not begin until 11.30pm and some who objected to the bravura Italian technique which it contained.Italian technical innovations were thought by some to be ruining ballet which up until then had displayed the elegant, noble simplicity of the French school. Dell'Era was one of a series of Italian dancers to make their way to Russia towards the end of the nineteenth century armed with new style ballet shoes and the latest technical developments from Milan. The stronger boxes and shanks of Italian shoes made the development in ponte work possible.I think most ballet goers know about Brianzi's balances and Legnani whose multiple fouettes found their way into virtually everything she danced in Russia until the found their natural home in Swan Lake,Dell'Era is less well known. She was another Milanese trained technician,described as having a good jump,considerable aplomb,the ability to perform three unsupported turns and to rise on pointe from kneeling to upright. In some ways she seems to have had a wider range of enhanced technical skills than her compatriots. No wonder her technique was described, by some, as almost arrogant. As she danced Aurora in Russia just two years after its premiere it would be fascinating to know how much of the role of Aurora as danced today by the Royal Ballet is choreography created for her rather than Brianzi.It might explain some of Auror's choreography in act 1 and elements of the grand pas de deux. I had always understood that the five nineteenth century ballets which de Valois acquired for her new company were primarily intended to ensure that the company achieved and maintained technical skills sufficient to ensure that it could dance anything.In other words it was the very technical challenge that their choreography presents which is the reason for acquiring and maintaining them in the repertory. When Markova dances the gargouillades they look like a piece of very light decoration which adds variety to the planes through which her legs are travelling in a variation which she makes look effortless and elegant.Yoshida also makes light of the steps but they appear to be more deliberately displayed than Markova's.Yoshida makes fewer shapes in the air and appears more square on to the audience.It seems to me to be less modulated with less variety than Markov's version I found Danilova more forceful in her performance it was as if she was making points.I could see no evidence of the gargouillades. It is wonderful to think that choreography which caused strong reactions well over a century ago, and is now part of a classic choreographic text still produces adverse responses today.I am sure that the nineteenth century critics of the malign effect of Italian bravura technique on ballet questioned the place of such steps in ballet in similar terms then. Edited January 2, 2016 by FLOSS 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveclassics Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I saw an Insight evening some years ago which featured the Mirlitons variation. In the RB version, Clara dances the contentious gargouillades and the soloist that night was having some difficulty with them. The coach (Chris Saunders, I think) advised her to think of them as a "shake your knickers off" movement which seemed to help. I still think of them as rather ugly but presumably more than just the SPF had to dance them originally. Or is the RB's version very far removed from the Ivanov original? Linda Just realised that my last 2 posts are about underwear but I promise I'm not a fetishist! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 If that is the way they are coached, no wonder they aren't being done well! In fact they are quite a fun step once you have mastered them. But they do need a good springy jump, as in a pas de chat, and fast lower leg movement like in all batterie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoriapage Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) Kirsten Simone in 1967 (at 31 minutes, 20 seconds) http://www.chicagofilmarchives.org/collections/index.php/Detail/Object/Show/object_id/8790 Edited January 2, 2016 by victoriapage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I saw an Insight evening some years ago which featured the Mirlitons variation. In the RB version, Clara dances the contentious gargouillades and the soloist that night was having some difficulty with them. The coach (Chris Saunders, I think) advised her to think of them as a "shake your knickers off" movement which seemed to help. I still think of them as rather ugly but presumably more than just the SPF had to dance them originally. Or is the RB's version very far removed from the Ivanov original? Linda Just realised that my last 2 posts are about underwear but I promise I'm not a fetishist! I remember the "shaking your knickers off" comment but my memory is saying it was Lesley Collier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Newcombe Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I thought the comment was "shaking your socks off" and that it was Collier. Mind you watching Collier in the original video "knickers" would seem to be appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzsdzdUFzoY Here is Osipova in the second act of Giselle showing the ronds de jambe en l'air in a different step. This is how the ronds in the Gargouillade should look. Definitely not just a "shake". Hopefully this was just a comment to amuse the audience at the coaching sessions. In all the versions of Sugar Plum that Osipova dances on Youtube she does the Russian version which has different choreography, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzsdzdUFzoY Hopefully this was just a comment to amuse the audience at the coaching sessions. Yes it was. What a very patronising post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Different SugarPlums... And another one, in Novosibirsk, - Osipova partnered by Polunin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxPN7sDMCb8&feature=youtu.be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Not patronising at all, if the dancers can't do the gargouillade then maybe they aren't being coached correctly. Perhaps such comments are being used in normal rehearsals too instead of a proper breakdown of the step! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lema Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Thought I'd share this clip as it was the first sugar plum fairy my dd ever saw via the wonders of YouTube https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz_f9B4pPtg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 That was lovely, thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Different SugarPlums... And another one, in Novosibirsk, - Osipova partnered by Polunin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxPN7sDMCb8&feature=youtu.be Amelia, is that choreography for the gpdd standard in Russian companies. I am sure I have seen something similar donkeys years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Goodness, Janet, you startled me. I read that as "I am sure I have seen similar donkeys, years ago." I was wondering what on earth donkeys were doing in The Nutcracker! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Amelia, is that choreography for the gpdd standard in Russian companies. I am sure I have seen something similar donkeys years ago. A large part of this choreography by Vassily Vainonen could be seen, Janet, for the first time in 1934. This performance in Novosibirsk is Zelensky’s presentation of Vainonen’s production. Probably, it is the longest surviving production of "The Nutcracker", first staged by him at Kirov (1934) and then at Bolshoi (1938). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Vainonen It always was and remains popular with Russian ballet companies and schools and the audiences too. Edited January 3, 2016 by Amelia 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Thanks Amelia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betterankles Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 'Explaining' how to execute steps can be one of the causes of the dryness and technicality of dancers nowadays. In the old days the gorgeous Russian teachers used to utilize the most wonderful images to make steps and enchainements come alive, even in class, rather then the endless physical explanations of which muscle/tendon groups and other parts of the body should engage... Most often these images were poetic, sometimes funny (although not of the nature of 'shake your knickers' - only for the reason that this would eliminate any RONDS de jambes, of which the step is made...). Ronds de jambe en l'air for instance could be described as 'make mayonnaise with your feet'. Vera Volkova was renowned for the images she used - for instance ' imagine baby lungs in your arms' 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveclassics Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Vera Volkova was renowned for the images she used - for instance ' imagine baby lungs in your arms' Sorry, is that a typo? Can't even imagine what baby lungs look or feel like! Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Thanks for that clip Pas de Quatre in post 19. Beautiful movement from Osipova throughout but those feet movements in that step just so quick. Technique subserved to create beauty one of the main aims of ballet I think. I wonder whether if a step ...that although some can produce really well but most others cannot without it looking ugly....should be included. It's great to teach it so am not talking about the step not being taught as it wouldn't be a good idea to lose them but especially in a variation like Sugar Plum ....there just isn't any room for ugliness!! Better to go for another version perhaps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Glad you liked it Lin, I think Osipova dances Giselle exquisitely and I agree about technique being subservient to create beauty. There is a strange myth around at the moment that Russian training doesn't produce fast footwork, it does, and this is an excellent example. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzsdzdUFzoY Here is Osipova in the second act of Giselle showing the ronds de jambe en l'air in a different step. This is how the ronds in the Gargouillade should look. Definitely not just a "shake". Hopefully this was just a comment to amuse the audience at the coaching sessions. In all the versions of Sugar Plum that Osipova dances on Youtube she does the Russian version which has different choreography, While I am sure Osipova is doing it beautifully, I still don't like the step. It has been a long time since I have seen Giselle, but I simply can't remember it. I assume all Giselles perform it, but maybe with the long skirts it looks better. I don't really like the choreography for the pdd that Osipova dances in the Nutcracker. It seems rather a waste of all that gorgeous music. To me, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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