Bolshoi cinema broadcasts feedback 2015-2016

[MAB]

That a pernicious claque exists in Moscow is fact, it is not opinion, I have witnessed its manifestation at a lot of performances and it is actually very easy to differentiate between regular applause and the claque led variety.  Their behaviour is pretty shameless and as much an irritant to the local audience as to visitors.  Many of their antics would rightly get them banned from theatres elsewhere.

 

Whether these guys are ballet fans of some stripe or simply opportunist low-lifes I'm not sure, possibly a bit of both, but the fact remains they are paid for their vulgar exhibitions, often by dancers intimidated into paying up by threats to disrupt their performances. 

 

Audiences don't interrupt performances by applause in the middle of a Shakespeare play or a Beethoven symphony, why shouldn't the same level of respect be displayed at the ballet?

[alison]

Quite - so paid-for clapping is to all intents and purposes "fake" insofar as it in no way reflects whether the people clapping are actually enjoying the performance.

[alison]

There have been some repeats in the past but, unlike the RB, usually some time after the live showing

Measured in years. The Osipova/Vasiliev one was repeated a year or two back, and this one may well be.

[Jan McNulty]

And how exactly do you know if it is fake? Some special algorithm for calculating other people emotions

Also to judge how the russian dancers are feeling about their own public- wow, it amazes me!

 

Janet, to have a tread discussing behavior of British public (from which you are part) is one thing, but to throw some low level comments about behavior and traditions for which most of you know next to nothing- completely another. And just one thing- Bolshoi is a russian theater, which performs first and most important for russian public. And this public has the complete and basic right to behave as they pleased and as common for the country; so all people watching it secondarily in cinemas must accept the traditions and habits of the theater. Or if it is so irritating, nobody puts a gun to nobody's head- watching cinema broadcast from russian theater is not obligatory. What is obligatory is some level of good manners in voicing one's opinion. "Ghasty" is not it, neither "fake" or "dreadful".

 

 

Joy, to be blunt - please read your own postings on this thread and see that you yourself could apply some politeness and good manners to your postings.  This is me speaking as me and not in any official capacity.

[billboyd]

The Osipova/Vasiliev one was repeated a year or two back,

 

If this recording were released on DVD the Bolshoi would make a fortune -  and, a lot of people would be very happy!

[MAB]

If this recording were released on DVD the Bolshoi would make a fortune -  and, a lot of people would be very happy!

 

The choice of what makes it onto DVD and what doesn't is often an odd one, but sometimes a dancer never gets a record of their work saved for posterity which is a terrible shame, the same with certain ballets.

[joy]

O, Janet, it is so so easy to say "You're unpolite also" instead of thinking what is provoking such kind of reaction . Of course it will be me who is wrong here, not the one with similar to your opinion (who are continuing to use offensive language for public completely unknown for them). 'Low life', what next?

 

SwissBalletFan, starts to look to me that it is not good idea to write here if you are just a common ballet fan, not part of the elite British public. Low-life, in other words. So sad... I was quite happy to find this forum, but it looks to me that I had to read more before to join . 

[MAB]

Oh dear, I thought I was being overly genteel with the term low-life.  The claquer who burst into a box I was sharing with two companions during a performance of Prince Igor in Moscow, pushing his way to the front in order to scream approval for a frankly terrible mezzo was deserving of a stronger term: I wouldn't use it here.

 

I think it is fair to explain to fellow forum regulars exactly what the deal is in Russia.  Their enjoyment was impaired so I explained why.  Frankly I don't understand Joy's response.

[cavycapers]

Re the production yesterday being so fast and furious, I have not seen Don Quixote before, and I was wondering if it is usually like this, or was this an example of the 'Russian style'. Are DQs from other countries taken at a different pace.

 

While it was absolutely terrific, (and I shall be trying now to get a ticket to see it at the ROH this summer), it didn't seem to have much light and shade in the tempo, and i think that was what I found so exhausting.

[SwissBalletFan]

O, Janet, it is so so easy to say "You're unpolite also" instead of thinking what is provoking such kind of reaction . Of course it will be me who is wrong here, not the one with similar to your opinion (who are continuing to use offensive language for public completely unknown for them). 'Low life', what next?

 

SwissBalletFan, starts to look to me that it is not good idea to write here if you are just a common ballet fan, not part of the elite British public. Low-life, in other words. So sad... I was quite happy to find this forum, but it looks to me that I had to read more before to join . 

 

 

Dear Joy, I think most people here are very much 'normal' or common ballet fans, however just passionate, and the forum members are from far and wide. For me its a great place to interact, and as in the real world, read a person's reactions and views on certain subjects before 'taking on' a view of an established member. I have been burned by this personally, but on reflection, I think I could have been less direct in some cases.

 

Knowing that there are also some differences in some discussion points, I tend to try to ignore the 'hot points' where I disagree with others, and add where I feel on more safe ground until people know how I am. (I think people still are not sure )

 

There is a lot of great discussions and lovely people here, so tread carefully when new and its a hot topic, and choose topics wisely. A lot of people put in their own free time to make sure this forum exists and to be fair, its not an easy job as everyone has an opinion. So please go forward with Joy being Joyful

[joy]

MAB, you cannot call unknown people low-life, just because they show their emotion differently than you. Or you can but it speaks volumes about you too. Is it still unclear?

[SwissBalletFan]

Oh dear, I thought I was being overly genteel with the term low-life.  The claquer who burst into a box I was sharing with two companions during a performance of Prince Igor in Moscow, pushing his way to the front in order to scream approval for a frankly terrible mezzo was deserving of a stronger term: I wouldn't use it here.

 

I think it is fair to explain to fellow forum regulars exactly what the deal is in Russia.  Their enjoyment was impaired so I explained why.  Frankly I don't understand Joy's response.

 

To be fair MAB, I think her point is that the loud applause and at certain points it isn't always clear when the applause is from a paid clacquer rather than a genuine enthusiastic audience. Especially in a recording it is probably not clear, and when people use terms like 'ghastly' etc which may not seem like nice words, even about clacquers.

 

The low life was about a single person in your personal experience (and i get your point), but to say that it is so prevalent that this is the reason for applause in a recording, is only because people are paid for it, I am not sure is a fact, in the main. There was a lot of bravos and screaming in the Giselle Cinema relay, I wouldn't say that these were clacquers, but big fans or very enthusiastic people who want to show support to their favourite dancers

 

EDITED to add: Also the Bolshoi is a very BIG place, so an audience reaction can be very loud

Edited April 11, 2016 by SwissBalletFan

[billboyd]

I used the word 'dreadful' to describe clapping during the performance - when dancers are dancing and the orchestra playing. 

[SwissBalletFan]

I used the word 'dreadful' to describe clapping during the performance - when dancers are dancing and the orchestra playing. 

 

 

This clearly happens at Royal too Bill, certainly a couple of times during the last Giselle cinema relay.

[joy]

And couldn't you just accept that people are just doing it there, Mr Boyd ? As I said they have habits and traditions, formed for centuries.

Years ago I read a amazing biography of Pushkin and there was nicely described also which type of ballet fan he was. Dreadful, indeed- epitome of low-life, if using the terms from here

Edited April 11, 2016 by joy

[billboyd]

Unfortunately, yes it does. Dreadful.

[Timmie]

So, any more thoughts on the Don Q performance   ? I have tickets for opening night at the ROH, should I buy more? I didn't see the cinema broadcast so I am relying on you all...

[SusanR]

Frankly, Joy, Russian audiences are some of the worst I have ever come across! When I was at the London Coliseum a couple of years ago for the Russian Icons Gala, my evening was ruined by an incredibly rude Russian man. The curtain had gone up after the interval, the orchestra was playing & this individual barged into the seat next to me without apology.He then preceded to film the performance on his phone, holding his arms in the air without consideration for the people sitting behind. He was wearing a lot of jewellery too which was clanking every time he moved. When the show ended he pushed past me again & trod on my foot. I complained to the manager & she was very sympathetic & I gather I wasn't the only one to complain!

Susan

[Anna C]

This clearly happens at Royal too Bill, certainly a couple of times during the last Giselle cinema relay.

I only heard one unexpected outbreak of applause last Wednesday, which was during Act 2. The only other applause during the performance was one small polite burst of clapping when Muntagirov and Nuñez made their respective entrances.

 

That type of clapping is very different to what my daughter experienced when she was lucky enough to see the Mariinsky perform in St. Petersburg - frequent applause during the performance but which was in time with the music and which carried on and on. I'm not sure she thought it "ghastly" but she was certainly surprised at it; she wondered how the dancers weren't distracted by it. What she did take a dim view of was the number of people seemingly absorbed by their mobile phones and hardly glancing at the ballet.

[SwissBalletFan]

Frankly, Joy, Russian audiences are some of the worst I have ever come across! When I was at the London Coliseum a couple of years ago for the Russian Icons Gala, my evening was ruined by an incredibly rude Russian man. The curtain had gone up after the interval, the orchestra was playing & this individual barged into the seat next to me without apology.He then preceded to film the performance on his phone, holding his arms in the air without consideration for the people sitting behind. He was wearing a lot of jewellery too which was clanking every time he moved. When the show ended he pushed past me again & trod on my foot. I complained to the manager & she was very sympathetic & I gather I wasn't the only one to complain!

Susan

 

 

This was in London SusanR, and only one... People do pick up habits from the locals I heard there were a lot of complaints in England about people sitting anywhere near an aged English man with lots of Jewellery clanking around?

 

Also, in Switzerland, people may call us 'little policeman', but I always tell a person (who is without doubt a non-swiss person) to not take photos if they are sitting next to me.

 

Lets get back to the point of this thread shall we and help out Timmie? We can't let him down

 

Also Bill Boyd, you made me actually lol when I read your post

[MAB]

MAB, you cannot call unknown people low-life, just because they show their emotion differently than you. Or you can but it speaks volumes about you too. Is it still unclear?

 

So what would you call someone whose crass behaviour ruins your evening and that of your fiends?  Did you actually read my post?

[SwissBalletFan]

So what would you call someone whose crass behaviour ruins your evening and that of your fiends?  Did you actually read my post?

 

 

If you are hanging around with 'fiends' then you don't deserve anything nice  

[Mary]

Timmie, if you are looking for an evening of tasteful restraint, or a perfectly crafted piece of choreography , full of subtle and nuanced acting- stay at home.

 

But, if you want to see a tremendous spectacle, on a stage crammed with colour and action, with some frankly unbelieveable dancing:  athletic, lively, fun- by some of the best dancers in the world- roll up.

 

I shall be rolling up,

[alison]

Right.  Can we now get back to discussing the Bolshoi cinema broadcasts, please?

[Indigo]

So, any more thoughts on the Don Q performance   ? I have tickets for opening night at the ROH, should I buy more? I didn't see the cinema broadcast so I am relying on you all...

 

I'm thinking of trying to get a ticket for the Bolshoi's Don Q in Covent Garden when general booking opens tomorrow, so would appreciate any more thoughts from the cinema relay too (which I didn't see).

 

As I'll only be able to see one of their performances this summer, would others more knowledgeable recommend the Bolshoi's Don Q as "the one" to see, or recommend another production?  

[joy]

Frankly, Joy, Russian audiences are some of the worst I have ever come across! When I was at the London Coliseum a couple of years ago for the Russian Icons Gala, my evening was ruined by an incredibly rude Russian man. The curtain had gone up after the interval, the orchestra was playing & this individual barged into the seat next to me without apology.He then preceded to film the performance on his phone, holding his arms in the air without consideration for the people sitting behind. He was wearing a lot of jewellery too which was clanking every time he moved. When the show ended he pushed past me again & trod on my foot. I complained to the manager & she was very sympathetic & I gather I wasn't the only one to complain!
Susan

 

It is a single person, you cannot make general conclusions from a single person. And what you described is different from the applause habbits in russian theaters- one is tradition, the other just lack of manners

 

 

So what would you call someone whose crass behaviour ruins your evening and that of your fiends?  Did you actually read my post?

I usually read and listen very careful when in conversation. And measure my words before answering. So- I did read your comment and answered to it in (I think) clear way.

To clarify more- as one of this people who have the habbit from childhood to show emotionally their support  when on ballet performance, I find your comments deeply offensive and they ruined my day here. Should I call you low-life for this? Maybe this is the way to show good manners of an educated person, but I will pass and stay a low-life .

 

With this I'm finishing my comments on the topic. It is quite enough, I think.

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by joy

[SusanR]

Well yes, it was one person, Joy. But had a very bad experience with lots of Russians staying at the same hotel as us in Crete last year.Unbelievably rude! My last word on the subject too.

[SwissBalletFan]

Well yes, it was one person, Joy. But had a very bad experience with lots of Russians staying at the same hotel as us in Crete last year.Unbelievably rude! My last word on the subject too.

 

 

Come on, British people are famously terribly behaved on holiday, so shall we leave it at that?

[joy]

Well yes, it was one person, Joy. But had a very bad experience with lots of Russians staying at the same hotel as us in Crete last year.Unbelievably rude! My last word on the subject too.

Yep, they are not the most behaved tourists. I know it well, they are quite frequent in Bulgaria. You know who we think equally unsurvivable- british tourists. Coming for cheap alcohol, aggresive when drunk and behaving like the world must bow to them. As a young and let's say exotic for western standarts girl I had many, many very unpleasant moments in clubs with drunken englishmen. But I don't form my opinion about the nation from them- I met a lot of incredible and amazingly clever british people, but in another environment

[MAB]

 

I usually read and listen very careful when in conversation. And measure my words before answering. So- I did read your comment and answered to it in (I think) clear way.

To clarify more- as one of this people who have the habbit from childhood to show emotionally their support  when on ballet performance, I find your comments deeply offensive and they ruined my day here. Should I call you low-life for this? Maybe this is the way to show good manners of an educated person, but I will pass and stay a low-life .

 

With this I'm finishing my comments on the topic. It is quite enough, I think.

 

 

If you take money from under-talented performers in order to try to fool the audience into thinking she is good and  blackmail others into paying up or have their performances wrecked, then yes, you would be a low life too.

 

I am very sorry if an explanation of the Moscow set up ruined your day, you are clearly remarkably thin-skinned.

[SwissBalletFan]

It's tedious for the dancers too,   I remember at a performance in Russia the leading dancer stepping forward to make a gesture to shut them up.  In the UK we luckily don't suffer claque led exhibitions of fake enthusiasm, but that ghastly rhythmic clapping is starting to raise its ugly head here now.

 

That a pernicious claque exists in Moscow is fact, it is not opinion, I have witnessed its manifestation at a lot of performances and it is actually very easy to differentiate between regular applause and the claque led variety.  Their behaviour is pretty shameless and as much an irritant to the local audience as to visitors.  Many of their antics would rightly get them banned from theatres elsewhere.

 

Whether these guys are ballet fans of some stripe or simply opportunist low-lifes I'm not sure, possibly a bit of both, but the fact remains they are paid for their vulgar exhibitions, often by dancers intimidated into paying up by threats to disrupt their performances. 

 

Audiences don't interrupt performances by applause in the middle of a Shakespeare play or a Beethoven symphony, why shouldn't the same level of respect be displayed at the ballet?

 

If you really knew your british history MAB, Shakespeare's original performances of plays were famously affairs of what was known as 'theatre' booing, screaming, laughing and terribly debaucherous behaviour, which is even written to the detail of the plays, and audience interaction was a major part of that. Hence the phrase 'suffering the trials and tribulations of tower hill.'

 

I would fully recommend a tour of The Globe in London to discuss acceptable audience behaviour for that. In London and New York

 

Kevin Spacey, Patrick Stewart and  James McAvoy have found London audiences famously rude to the point where they stop the show to tell them off.

The choice of what makes it onto DVD and what doesn't is often an odd one, but sometimes a dancer never gets a record of their work saved for posterity which is a terrible shame, the same with certain ballets.

 

All performances are recorded in the major ballet houses for their own record, so that record is kept.

 

MAB please take it easy, and I personally think your last post went too far in insinuating that Joy was a Low Life 'if...'

[joy]

And how do you know they took money?

(I'm just curious, not trying to make big discussion )

[MAB]

I am very surprised by the responses I've received for trying to explain the unsavoury aspects of Russian ballet.  I used to keep scrapbooks of the more interesting articles/interviews regarding the Bolshoi and have kept the one where the dancers describe what can happen if they don't pay up.  As it seems my personal experience is disbelieved I'll dig it out with date, publication, author etc.  It isn't recent, the practice I'm assured has not ceased in the interim.