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Progress in ballet/Enough training?


Primaballerina1

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I just want to add my bit, after DD got a no for JAs last year. Applications are about to open for this year (auditions not until November), but she flatly refuses to try again unless her private lesson teacher says she should. I wish now that we had talked about a longer-term approach to auditions. I was careful to say "If you get in, it will mean..." but also "And if you don't get in, it means we can do...". But I should also have made it clearer that auditioning is not a one-off thing, but rather something that gets less scary the more you do it. I could perhaps compare it to performing, which doesn't come naturally to her but has improved greatly since she started competitions a year ago.

 

Anyway, just wanted to suggest that you talk about auditions as a fact of life rather than a one-off 'all or nothing' thing. I think part of our job is to help them build resilience so they bounce back from disappointment, but it's not easy when you are faced with a distraught/discouraged DC!

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Sorry, forgot that I also meant to say that RAD Grade 5 and Intermediate Foundation are two quite different things although you seem to be suggesting there is a combined class. Grade 5 is part of the RAD graded syllabus, and IF is the first of the 'vocational' grades, introducing pointework instead of continuing with character. So when we ask about vocational grades, it's a bit hard to tell just what syllabus you would be doing in a Grade 5/IF combined class. At our studio the Grade 5 exam is taken before moving to vocational grades so there is no overlap.

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Hi primaballerina1

 

I'm curious how long your dd has been dancing for?

 

The reason I ask is that maybe there could be some other classes such as pointe/prep classes or something like stretch/pillates/yoga or as lyrical or contemporary. If your school doesn't offer these then maybe you could find another school that does without changing from where she is and just do them alongside one another.

 

If she's not been dancing that long then possibly the strength classes or Freework classes could help alongside syllabus as some teachers will not want to challenge students too much by confusing terminology associated with syllabus and grades (I might not be explaining myself very well but I mean different classes rather than syllabus)

 

The competition options I think are really good as students get 121 time and I would say people benefit quite a lot from this attention

 

What about things such as EYB if it's within travelling distance

 

Or what about CAT schemes maybe?

 

Good luck

:)

My DD has been dnabcing since she was three (9 years). Yes her school do stretch but it is at the same time as one of her ballets????and she does Pilates at home sometimes as her sister used to do it but quit as there were to many younger ones(she's 16)! And yes her non-syllabus class does free work and pre-pointe exercises! We have decided to audition for LCB a second time round if she doesn't get into LJB because they are both on Sunday's and the timings over lap!???? So if she gets into either of these it will be more hours which I guess means more progress as she is v hardworking! Thanks for your comment!
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ISTD Grade 5 and ISTD Inter Found are different grades. However some schools teach Inter Found instead of Grades 5 & 6. It supposedly covers the levels in both grades but you would expect to be in IF almost or as long as it would take you to grades 5&6. DD's school did this for a while however some examiners asked for Grade 6 work in Inter Found exams which the girls hadn't done so the school has now gone back to Grades 5&6.

From 6 you move to Intermediate. I don't know what the fors and againsts are of doing the grades either way, maybe an ISTD teacher can explain?

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So it sounds as if she's overlapping grades anyway with ISTD grades.

 

If she's doing Ceccheti there's the option of their associates and scholarship program (Sunday's) I only know this as a friends daughter about to start

 

Do you have the option for a competition team?

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It sounds like your dd has a very experienced and knowledgable dance teacher. Have you spoken to the teacher about how she sees your daughters potential of getting into RBS etc. I would say the quality of teaching is far more important than quantity of classes.

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Hi

 

My DD follows RAD syllabus so I'm not too familiar with ISTD Imperial Ballet but I've just been on the ISTD website and had a look at the syllabus. It seems similar to the RAD in as much as there are the grades 1-8 etc and then there are the "vocational grades" as Cara has referred to which are intermediate foundation, intermediate, advanced 1 and advanced 2. This is on page 35 here .. http://www.istd.org/documents/imperial-classical-ballet-syllabus-outline-2014/

 

So if your DD is doing grade 4 & 5 plus a freework/pointe/pointe prep class it doesn't sound as if this is the same thing as starting the vocational syllabus. I could be wrong but just saying it doesn't sound like it from how you have described it here. 

 

I don't know when ISTD students move onto the vocational grades and if they have to have passed a certain grade so maybe someone else can answer that. I wasn't clear to me reading the ISTD syllabus but otherwise maybe you could phone ISTD and ask. 

 

I think if I were you, given what you are trying to achieve with more ballet, I would look for

 

* Starting vocational grades - interfoundation

* Find associate course

* Find a stretch or pilates class

* Boost the hours by attending another school for existing grades (4&5) to get through them a bit quicker and benefit from more than one teacher

 

Our ISTD teacher (modern, tap & jazz) has let us borrow the instructional DVD's to take home from time to time so that my DD has a few more study hours at home to help learn and practise syllabus. 

 

Personally I would not be too concerned about LCB as there were some lovely dancers in November who did not make it through and I don't think that would necessarily be a reflection on your dd's talent. My DD didn't get a recall and was a bit upset about it for about an hour! Then she moved on :) 

 

Have you looked at the CAT schemes too? ... https://www.gov.uk/music-dance-scheme 

 

Good luck

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Hi

 

My DD follows RAD syllabus so I'm not too familiar with ISTD Imperial Ballet but I've just been on the ISTD website and had a look at the syllabus. It seems similar to the RAD in as much as there are the grades 1-8 etc and then there are the "vocational grades" as Cara has referred to which are intermediate foundation, intermediate, advanced 1 and advanced 2. This is on page 35 here .. http://www.istd.org/documents/imperial-classical-ballet-syllabus-outline-2014/

 

So if your DD is doing grade 4 & 5 plus a freework/pointe/pointe prep class it doesn't sound as if this is the same thing as starting the vocational syllabus. I could be wrong but just saying it doesn't sound like it from how you have described it here.

 

I don't know when ISTD students move onto the vocational grades and if they have to have passed a certain grade so maybe someone else can answer that. I wasn't clear to me reading the ISTD syllabus but otherwise maybe you could phone ISTD and ask.

 

I think if I were you, given what you are trying to achieve with more ballet, I would look for

 

* Starting vocational grades - interfoundation

* Find associate course

* Find a stretch or pilates class

* Boost the hours by attending another school for existing grades (4&5) to get through them a bit quicker and benefit from more than one teacher

 

Our ISTD teacher (modern, tap & jazz) has let us borrow the instructional DVD's to take home from time to time so that my DD has a few more study hours at home to help learn and practise syllabus.

 

Personally I would not be too concerned about LCB as there were some lovely dancers in November who did not make it through and I don't think that would necessarily be a reflection on your dd's talent. My DD didn't get a recall and was a bit upset about it for about an hour! Then she moved on :)

 

Have you looked at the CAT schemes too? ... https://www.gov.uk/music-dance-scheme

 

Good luck

Thanks for the reply and yes we are looking into all of the extra classes you suggested so thank you a lot!! Dd borrows CDs to and because she does 7/8 classes of different genres of dance she practices a different one everyday!! Thanks for the LCB info too! How old was your DD when she auditioned??
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I think that, whilst strong technique is important for LCB, there is a greater focus on acting ability. LCB also pride themselves on taking all shapes and sizes, which vocational ballet schools do not. There are also some vocational students who audition for LCB. What I'm saying is: success or 'failure' in auditions for LCB is not predictive of success in auditions for vocational schools. I wonder whether doing 7 or 8 different genres of dance is the best use of your DD's time if she wants a career as a classical ballet dancer. She might be better putting some of those hours towards more ballet.

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DD is at an 'all ISTD' school, so i thought I'd post a quick modification to annalieset's response.

 

Although the 'Class Examinations' go up to 8, I don't know anyone who does those, apart from the Primary one, which in DD's school the little ones do before they go on to the Primary exam.

 

My experience is of the 'Graded examinations', whch go up to Grade 6, and are, in DD's school, followed by the Vocational Graded exams.

 

There is some overlap between Grade 6 and Intermediate Foundation - my understanding is that they are of similar standard but the latter has more pointe work. In DD's dance school, it is common for pupils to do one or the other but not both. Typically, those whose strengths lie in genres other than ballet, and those who dance few hours a week, do Grade 6, and those who take their dance reasonably seriously and are likely to go on further in ballet take Interfoundation. Unusually, DD and her cohort took Grade 6 this term and will take IF next term - mainly because they are young to be at this stage and their teacher is careful to increase the amount of pointe work very slowly.

 

In terms of pointe, at DD's school they start pointe and the Interfoundation syllabus after doing Grade 4 - at which point they will be doing a Grade 5 class, a Grade 6 class, an Interfoundation class and a basic pointe class each week in terms of 'just ballet' lessons. So although they don't take the InterFoundation exam until, at the very least, c. a year after Grade 5, they will have been taking the IF classes for around 2 years. Similarly, after DD takes her IF at Christmas, she will attend 1 Advanced class a week, even though that exam is WAY into the future for her.

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Prima, sorry, should have said - DD is also 12. No intention of going to vocational school. Her amount of ballet per week is not a lot more than your DD's - 3 hours of 'normal' classes, an hour of pointe-type work, an extra hour last term and next term for exam prep, a 30 min 1:1 lesson which is only sometimes ballet focused - and i can see that it would be hard to find her 'more hours' if she did suddenly decide that auditioning was what she wanted to do. It's tricky.

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Our Intermediate Foundation class are usually about 12 years old, although we do have 12 year olds in Grade 5 too. They have 2 x 90 minute classes a week and once we start pointe, I usually add on another 30 minutes. Personally I think 2 x 90 minute classes are better than 3 x 60 minutes. I'll explain why. When you have a longer class you can cover more of the syllabus and it builds more strength. I usually spend about 40 minutes on the barre - you can't do that in an hour's class and barre work is so important as it builds up all the correct placing and strength and footwork skills that you need for the centre. A 90 minute class also gives you more time to work in the centre including the dance and free enchainements. Our Grade 5's also have 90 minute classes and Grade 4s have 75 minutes. The longer classes really give us time to spend on all sorts of important aspects of the work and make a big difference. We then add on a 3rd class of 90 minutes after IF. They also get modern and jazz and flamenco, so that also strengthens and limbers them. The difference in working for IF and regular grades is like chalk and cheese and that really shows in the higher marks that are usually given for the regular grades. I think more than extra hours, it's in what and how your daughter is training that's important.

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That's really interesting, Dance*is*life. DD usually has 2 ballet classes 'back to back' with the same teacher - say Grade 6 + pointe, or IF + Intermediate - and often says that they e.g. did more barre work in the first lesson, and more allegro in the second, or whatever. I wonder if it's for the same reasons?

 

Being ISTD, they have done free enchainements from the very earliest grades,

 

Prima, yes, all DD's dancing - including tap, modern, performing groups and stretching, as well as ballet - is all at the same studios, but with a range of different teachers. Essentially they have a tap specialist, and 3 others who teach ballet and MT, visiting teachers for national, singing and drama, and a junior teacher who does stretching and 1:1 for the younger ones.

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Thanks Anna, and no we don't have a competition team although whenever DDs school does competitions (they only do ballet comps) they have 4 children competing from our school and DD is one of them ! And unfortunately she does imperial ISTD rather than Ceccheti

You can do the associate scheme - (the classes are 9 times a year) if you are not studying the ISTD Cecchetti syllabus but not the scholars. 

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