Anyone else here a tennis fan?

[bridiem]

It's difficult to know at the moment what's really been happening here because there's so much conflicting information emerging all the time. But it's an appalling situation for everyone involved, and terrible for tennis in general and the Australian Open in particular.

[Jan McNulty]

Could he not have a test to prove he has Covid antibodies which would presumably be quite evident after such a recent infection?

[Sim]

I would have thought that's the first they would do, Jan.  As he isn't vaccinated, antibodies would show that he has had the virus...unless they are still from his first infection the previous year, perhaps?  I have no idea how long they last if it's from infection and not vaccination.

[LinMM]

I think the antibodies test is a good idea as long as that would also be acceptable for other people trying to get into Australia who are not vaccinated. If an antibodies test is okay for them then should be okay for Djokovich....and if not okay for them

then can’t be okay for him either. 
In many ways you might ask well okay as long as he sticks to tennis courts and doesn’t wander out too much around the City why can’t he just take a daily test if not vaccinated..... in terms of passing on Covid etc that could definitely work. 
However I think the people in Australia have had a tougher time than those in UK some not seeing families for two years etc so the rules on entering the country must be seen to be fair with no special exemptions .....not even for World class tennis players!! 
It has to be said that it really has been handled badly though. His visa status should have been cleared properly before he flew all the way out there and I know it’s more complex in Oz because of Local State rules ....in this case Victoria ...and the Gov Federal rules etc. 
The thing is though that Djokovich has taken an anti vax stance in the past year so you would think he would  have been more careful himself to check out his position regarding this knowing how draconian it’s been in Australia up till now. So he does have some responsibility in the current saga. 

 

[Jan McNulty]

7 hours ago, LinMM said:

I think the antibodies test is a good idea as long as that would also be acceptable for other people trying to get into Australia who are not vaccinated. If an antibodies test is okay for them then should be okay for Djokovich....and if not okay for them

then can’t be okay for him either. 
In many ways you might ask well okay as long as he sticks to tennis courts and doesn’t wander out too much around the City why can’t he just take a daily test if not vaccinated..... in terms of passing on Covid etc that could definitely work. 
However I think the people in Australia have had a tougher time than those in UK some not seeing families for two years etc so the rules on entering the country must be seen to be fair with no special exemptions .....not even for World class tennis players!! 
It has to be said that it really has been handled badly though. His visa status should have been cleared properly before he flew all the way out there and I know it’s more complex in Oz because of Local State rules ....in this case Victoria ...and the Gov Federal rules etc. 
The thing is though that Djokovich has taken an anti vax stance in the past year so you would think he would  have been more careful himself to check out his position regarding this knowing how draconian it’s been in Australia up till now. So he does have some responsibility in the current saga. 

 

It may prove whether he is being truthful or not.

 

On the other hand, if the Australian rules say you must be vaccinated to enter or have a medical exemption (and why would having a medical exemption include having had COVID which can be caught more than once and spread accordingly) why did he still go.  
 

BTW - one of my cousins has only had one jab for medical reasons and my aunt (now thankfully jabbed) could not have Pfizer because of allergies.  

[Kate_N]

It’s just been announced that Djokovic has won his case to be allowed into Australia. I’m quite angry about this - my mother lives in Australia and is now very frail in her 80s. I don’t know if I’ll see her alive again, because of the difficulty of being allowed into Australia over the last couple of years. And an anti- vaccine person (my opinion of such people isn’t polite to mention here) gets his way …. 
 

Australians say they’re all for a “fair go” but this isn’t.   

[Jan McNulty]

11 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

It’s just been announced that Djokovic has won his case to be allowed into Australia. I’m quite angry about this - my mother lives in Australia and is now very frail in her 80s. I don’t know if I’ll see her alive again, because of the difficulty of being allowed into Australia over the last couple of years. And an anti- vaccine person (my opinion of such people isn’t polite to mention here) gets his way …. 
 

Australians say they’re all for a “fair go” but this isn’t.   

 

Well said Kate!

[Kate_N]

Listening to BBC News, it’s clear there is a successful legal argument, but I’d like to know what it is!

[Fiz]

Also he will be more unbearable than ever after this and so will all his baying fans. This is not good news. He broke Australian law and should pay for it!

[bridiem]

No matter how one feels about Djokovic, the judge appears to have ruled that he was was indeed given an exemption and so he broke no rules or laws. If the Australian government now decides to deport him anyway they will be rescinding the exemption under which he legitimately travelled to Australia. So either way, the whole matter has been appallingly mis-handled. 

[bangorballetboy]

4 minutes ago, bridiem said:

No matter how one feels about Djokovic, the judge appears to have ruled that he was was indeed given an exemption and so he broke no rules or laws. 

 

As I understand it, that is not what the judge ruled.  The ruling was that it was unreasonable in the circumstances to cancel the visa.

[bridiem]

24 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

As I understand it, that is not what the judge ruled.  The ruling was that it was unreasonable in the circumstances to cancel the visa.

 

Yes - unreasonable because Djokovic had met all the requirements that had been demanded of him.  If the exemption should not have been granted, that's a different issue entirely.

Edited January 10, 2022 by bridiem

[bangorballetboy]

3 minutes ago, bridiem said:

 

Yes - unreasonable because Djokovic had met all the requirements, i.e. in respect of the exemption and the related visa application. (That doesn't mean the judge was making a judgement about the legitimacy of the exemption itself; but clearly it was granted to Djokovic and he acted accordingly.)

 

No, unreasonable in that he wasn't given enough time to respond to the notice of intent to cancel.  It was a purely procedural point.

[bridiem]

Just now, bangorballetboy said:

 

No, unreasonable in that he wasn't given enough time to respond to the notice of intent to cancel.  It was a purely procedural point.

 

Understood; but the judge also asked what more Djokovic could have done in the circumstances, implying that he himself broke no rules or laws during this process.

[Fonty]

There are numerous examples of Tennis Australia being told repeatedly that past covid infection is not a valid reason for medical exemption.  Now, if Djokovic is allowed to compete, that means he was given preferential treatment by Tennis Australia.  In short, Djokovic may be innocent of breaking the law, but Tennis Australia isn't.

 

Therefore I think the federal government should step in and say, "He won't be deported, but he cannot compete."  Otherwise, he is being allowed to flout the law, even if he did so in the belief that this was correct."

 

To say I am angry about this would be an understatement.    Djokovic is known to be very anti vaccine in general, and very pro alternative methods.  He is on record with some very odd ideas which make you question his sanity, let alone his intelligence.  He should not be allowed to play.  

 

 

[bridiem]

Just to clarify: I'm not defending Djokovic's right to go to Australia - that's up to Australia to decide. But I do think that whatever decisions are made need to be legal and consistent. (I also have to say that his positive test on 16th December - in the absolute nick of time - does seem to have been quite extraordinarily convenient. Maybe I just have a suspicious mind.)

[Fonty]

@bridiem I think you and I must have the same suspicious minds. 

[LinMM]

I understand that if he is deported he will not be able to return for three years as now some other Health Minister has intervened who in theory still has the power to revoke his visa. 
This really is a mess. 
Personally I agree with Fonty somebody has to intervene to say he cannot compete but won’t actually be deported as would incur a three year ban. 
Or if he has any sense he should now withdraw saying he is not “match fit”

But the legal situation is complicated so perhaps legally he is okay but morally he isn’t. Australians haven’t even been allowed to travel interstate let alone abroad so can understand why they are so annoyed. 

But perhaps it’s not his fault he was allowed in in the first place 😱

[Kate_N]

3 hours ago, bridiem said:

So either way, the whole matter has been appallingly mis-handled. 

 

Indeed. It's a minefield - a huge star who's anti-vaccination, apparently being allowed into a country which has had extremely stringent regulations about entry & vaccination for the last 2 years. But there's money and prestige involved ... and Australia is a sport-mad nation.

[alison]

7 hours ago, bridiem said:

(I also have to say that his positive test on 16th December - in the absolute nick of time - does seem to have been quite extraordinarily convenient. Maybe I just have a suspicious mind.)

 

Yes, funny that.  One has to wonder what he was doing that he managed to catch Covid a second time, just at the right time.  And as for the irresponsibility of going round unmasked 2 days after testing positive ...

 

If I was a tennis player,  I wouldn't be wanting to go anywhere near him.  He may have antibodies, but that doesn't mean he can't pass the virus on to someone else.

[Quintus]

...and his visa has now been withdrawn.  Hawkeye said 'out'...

[LinMM]

Meanwhile hasn’t Andy Murray got through to the final of a Sydney tournament ...the first one for a few years now. 
Where Mr. D is concerned probably good that he now can’t take part as would have been problematic for the tournament... after all the extra fuss to date...with no doubt “anti “ and “for” demos etc so could have made for a rather unpleasant atmosphere for all the players. 
 

 

[alison]

What makes you think there won't still be demos?  (I typed "demons" there by accident!)

 

Regardless, I do hope we get a new winner: it's about time.  And not Nadal by default, if both Djokovic and Federer aren't there.

[Fonty]

I must admit I am slightly surprised that Djokovic has finally left Australia.  I thought there would be yet another legal loophole that would allow him to play.  Let's hope this whole sorry saga is over and done with.  We can now concentrate on the tennis, which is exactly as it should be.  I don't think Nadal has got a hope, to be honest, not having played very much after his operation.  I haven't looked at the draw, but my money is on Medvedev and Zverev being in the final, unless they are in the same half.  

 

Murray did get through to the Sydney final, which is encouraging.  It was wonderful to see him playing again. 

[Quintus]

2 hours ago, Fonty said:

We can now concentrate on the tennis, which is exactly as it should be. 

I don't follow the men's tournament, but I'm looking forward to watching:

• Emma Raducanu in the hope that she gets through a couple of rounds and thereby re-achieves the confidence to start building her 'normal' development path over this year
• Yulia Putintseva for the sheer entertainment when something annoys her (search her GIFs....)
• Paula Badosa because it's good to see hard work paying off big time 
• Iga Swiatek because since winning RG so young she's done what Emma R now needs to do, and is on a steady upward trajectory from a really strong base.  I'd love to see her in the final, though it's unlikely
• Camila Giorgi for unrelenting speed and aggression 
• Ons Jabeur for being endearingly unconventional and awkward

.....and probably Ash winning it on her home turf.

[Quintus]

...... oh, and this young lady, who impressed us at Wimbledon last year, when I took these shots, and has done very well since - Lena Rybakina.  

[alison]

I suspect Ash will find the pressure too much again, to be honest.  And Raducanu is playing Sloane Stephens in the first round, so may not even make it to the second - I doubt she could have got a tougher draw if she'd tried.

 

In the absence of Djokovic, I hope we'll have a new - but deserving - men's winner.

[Quintus]

Watching our 'strawberry blonde' Harriet Dart put up a brave fight against Iga this morning, we were wondering how such fair skinned players cope with the endless hours of UV exposure on the tour, which basically follows the blazing sun. I guess they have to slather factor 50 all over, but that then would make them sweat more, run painfully into their eyes etc. They don't end up looking like beetroots so they must have some technique that works!

[bridiem]

14 minutes ago, Quintus said:

Watching our 'strawberry blonde' Harriet Dart put up a brave fight against Iga this morning, we were wondering how such fair skinned players cope with the endless hours of UV exposure on the tour, which basically follows the blazing sun. I guess they have to slather factor 50 all over, but that then would make them sweat more, run painfully into their eyes etc. They don't end up looking like beetroots so they must have some technique that works!

 

I've wondered about that too, Quintus!

[alison]

So, I gather Andy Murray won in 5 - where've I heard that before? - which is a good result against the no. 21 seed, but if he carries on like that he'll be gassed way too early, as he's demonstrated rather too often since his comeback.

[Sim]

 Congratulations to Emma Raducanu, who seems to have chosen the right time to get her mojo back!  

[alison]

Two British men and two British women through to round 2: not bad.

 

Wonder how Emma will cope if she has to play a daytime match?  I'm not sure what the weather's like down there at the moment.

[Quintus]

That was a heartening performance from Emma; Sloane was rather off in the first set but Emma also played very well, and did a great job to come back so strong after the difficult second set.  Some cracking rallies and now she has an easier draw for the next round.  Fingers crossed..