Pups_mum

Interestingly I have just been reading a thread elsewhere about highly selective academic schools and it seems that there are similar issues. I suppose that the bottom line is that whenever there are a lot more people wanting something than the "slots" available the provider has the upper hand. "Do you know how lucky you are to be here - we have 20 applicants for every place and could replace you tomorrow" exerts enormous pressure on both the student and their parents. It means that individual parents have little leverage - even if they are paying huge sums of money for the place - and the highly motivated students don't want to rock the boat. In many cases I suspect parents get a highly edited version of events. They don't want to worry their parents, feel guilty particularly if the rest of the family are making sacrifices in order for them to take up their place, and become conditioned to their "new normal". I have a friend from my University days who attended one of the most famous boys' public schools in the world. I was appalled by much of what he told me. He was abused by both staff and other pupils in a variety of ways. But he didn't speak up for fear of being sent home. Told his parents very carefully curated stories of his school life, partly because he knew how much they were paying, partly because, like many bullied people, he began to believe it was his fault and he didn't want to disappoint them, and partly because he did recognise that amongst all the bad stuff there was good and that he was privileged to have. I think there are lots of similarities with many of the stories of vocational schools that I know of and the psychological and practical factors at play are many, and complex. I don't know what the answer is, but getting all this kind of thing out into the open has to be a step in the right direction. If I could turn the clock back a decade or more, knowing what I know now, I would probably do things differently and encourage my DD to make some different decisions. And if she knew then what she does now then I think that she would accept that steerage. But we didn't know then what we know now. All any of us can do is our best, with the information and resources that we have available to us at the time. I'm sure that you, and all the other parents who have commented, did your best @cotes du rhone ! Nobody can do more than that. It is always worth remembering that the only thing that you can guarantee about doing things differently is that things would have been different! And different is not necessarily better or worse. We often think that if faced with a choice of paths and the one you choose turns our rocky, that the others were smooth and beautiful, but you can never know that - they might have been equallly rocky, or even worse. I've definitely learned a lot from my DD's dance journey .Hers was relatively painless compared to many but still had some fairly major "downs". My youngest child is sporty and there are many of the same potential pitfalls. I'm less naive now, far less trusting and a lot more realistic. But this time I am havng to check myself for fear of going too far the other way and denying him opportunities. Finding that balance is very difficult and I don't believe any of us get it absolutely right. But our best, done with love, is all we can do. Between us we seem to have a lot of impressive and resillient young people, contributing to the world in many different ways, so I reckon we must have done ok!

Ah, I remember your previous post I think @Twinkletoes22 In all honesty, in your shoes I think I would move school completely. As I said earlier, I think that there can be some very valid reasons for teachers being cautious about where else their students go, but to be so adamant that only RBS JAs is good enough is frankly, ridiculous. Does this school actually meet your, and most importantly, your DD's needs? There are no shows ,which your DD misses, the timetabling isn't a good fit for you and the teacher sounds rather inflexible - what are the good points that are keeping you there, and are they really worth it? I'd be using this down time to be researching other local schools if I were you.

I used to think that this was very straightforward - you are the paying customer, and the parent so do whatever you think is best. However, over the years, I have come to see it as not quite that black and white. One thing is that the standard of teaching varies enormously from school to school, so a teacher may have good reason not to want his or her pupils attending some other schools. There's also the potential for conflict of interest and timetabling. That's not likely to be an issue if you're just doing classes, but if the young dancer takes part in competitions or there are shows or exams at the same time it can cause problems for the teacher and ill feeling amongst peers/other parents if attendance at rehearsals etc is sporadic. Over the years I've seen a few problems of this type. For example a dancer from school A also attends school B and is given a significant part in school B's show, but then discovers that preparation classes for school A's exams clash with the show and pulls out at the last minute, or both schools enter the same competition at the same time but the dancer can only be in one team. It can make things a bit awkward socially with the dancer not being quite sure where they "belong". As adults that may seem trivial to us, but it is something that is very important to many youngsters. There is a lot more to having dance lessons than just learning to dance, if that makes sense? I also think that having multiple teachers is something of a double edged sword and it does depend a lot on the individual dancer, what stage are at and how adaptable they are. For older, more experienced dancers I think it is generally a good thing to be taught by different teachers, with different perspectives and slightly different approaches. I remember my DD struggling with one particular thing for ages but she came back from a summer school with it all sorted, simply because the teacher had explained things in a different way and it just "clicked" for her. A different teacher can see faults or potential that someone who has known a child for a long time can overlook. But for younger or less experienced dancers different teaching styles can be confusing and they may struggle to adapt - it really is very individual. My personal view is that if you attend more than one school it is important to make it clear which the "primary" school is. I think problems are more likely to arise if you try to "have it all" and get over committed. It is the same with other things of course. My son attends two cycling clubs, but one is his main club that he races for and the other one is mainly social really - everyone knows where they stand and its never been a problem. It helps though that the people who run the 2 clubs get along. There are other clubs that I wouldn't take him to as the relationships are different. Ultimately my original comment still stands though. You are in charge. Teacher A cannot stop you taking your child to teacher B. However, the teachers do also have rights and Teacher A is of course at liberty to decline to continue to teach your child. You have the right to choose but the teacher also has the right to run his or her business the way that they want, as long as it's legal. But whatever you decide, talk to the teachers and be open and honest. You may or may not be able to have everything that you want, but in my experience getting everything out in the open makes things better. I know of people who have done things behind teachers' or coaches' backs and it almost always ends in tears eventually.

I'm retired too! Though as my DD is teaching now (well, not right now obviously, but hopefully she will be again soon...) I am a kind of surrogate ballet grandma. I get very excited hearing about her pupils' progress and find that I can still be useful. I've had several calls asking things like "Where can I get such and such online with overnight delivery?" and "How did you make that prop I had in my character dance when I was 10?"🤣 And I've given a bit of (hopefully good) advice on how to handle...well...Ballet Mums! She never "made it" as a professional dancer but she is doing very well with teaching, and most importantly of all, she loves it. I'm very proud of that.

Belated New Year greetings from me, and thanks to all the Mods for everything they do. I'm kind of "retired" as a dance mum as my DD is now an adult so I don't have much to say nowadays. But I have been a member of this forum and its predecessor for well over a decade and it is still very precious to me. Having belonged to many forums covering different topics, I think this is the nicest, most supportive internet community I have come across. It is a credit to the mods and the members that that ethos has been maintained for so long even though people come and go. Long may it last!

Another voice suggesting looking for another school. What is the point of learning to dance if you never perform. If its just about gaining grades it becomes an academic pursuit or a form of exercise. Of course dance is those things as well, but its heart is performance - self expression and bringing pleasure to an audience are key elements in my humble opinion. Also, whilst I do have some sympathy with teachers not wanting their pupils going here there and everywhere, and wanting to be sure that they are getting a good standard of tuition, to suggest that RBS Associates is the only acceptable option is ridiculous. It is true that there's been an explosion in schemes in recent years and you do need to be a bit careful, but there are lots of very good schemes around. For performance experience though, probably what you really want is not so much an Associate scheme but a Youth Ballet, of which there are a number depending on where you are in the country. But seriously the lack of any performance opportunities and seeking to restrict pupils' other activities to that degree are big red flags to me, and I would be looking for a new school in the first instance. Don't pay good money for something that does not meet your needs.

I quite agree with Peanut. Foot strength and mobility can be improved with active exercises and there are specific arch exercises. Active foot exercises using your own body weight and, where appropriate, a theraband, under the supervision of a teacher or physio seems a far safer and more sensible approach than the use of any stretching device. Aside from the worrying risk of injury from actually using the device surely if an increase in foot flexibility is not accompanied by improved strength there is an ongoing risk of injury? I've no dance experience it's true, but I've got quite a lot of professional knowledge of anatomy and physiology plus an unfortunate amount of personal experience of foot injury. As a result, I personally wouldn't want to see my DD doing anything than steady, controlled exercises in an attempt to "improve" her feet, or any other part of her body come to that.

I think you could draw parallels with telephone/video consultations with health care professionals. A lot of "routine" stuff is easily and effectively dealt with that way, a wider range of work can be done remotely if face to face isn't possible, but there are some things that really can't be done well without the opportunity for physical contact. I also think that remote consulting is more successful if both parties already have an existing relationship. I've been seeing two different HCPs remotely during the pandemic, one of whom I had been seeing in person for some time but the other was a new therapeutic relationship. Converting to online sessions with the former was very easy, but with the latter, I didn't feel entirely comfortable until we did have a real life consultation. Interestingly, when she saw me doing the exercises in person that I had been set online, she found that I had in fact not been doing them quite right, even though from watching on video she thought I was. It did make me wonder how much of that is going on with online teaching, not just of dance. In the same way, I suspect a teacher who knows a dancer well already can probably give more effective corrections on a Zoom call than one who is "meeting" the student for the first time online. I also imagine it is harder to see what other dancers are doing and to learn from their corrections, and of course the social aspect of a group activity is lost. But then I am old. To our young people a lot of this will seem a lot more normal. Overall though I think it is a useful tool but can never be a complete replacement for in person classes.

Whether it predates Covid or not, the timing of issuing/reissuing this is absolutely appalling. And just when I think this government couldn't sink any lower I discover that I shouldn't be worried about my struggling year 13 because he is going to get a whole extra 3 weeks in school to catch up before his A levels. Well that should do the trick. Not.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the systems in particular schools, I think the point that is often made on this forum is ever relevant- its the journey that matters. The destination is not guaranteed so it is crucial that the young person is on a journey that they enjoy and value for its own sake, and not tolerating unacceptable things because of the hope of something special at the end.

Thanks @Kate_N. He had a really rough night last night unfortunately but I got very good service from our GP surgery this morning and he's now got some medication which will hopefully kick in soon. And the negative test meant my older son got to do his A level physics mocks today thank goodness. I know it sounds daft worrying about that in the current situation but with all the furore over grades last year, I really didn't want him to miss it and potentially have problems later. I should apologise to the OP - this thread has taken on a life of its own and strayed a long way off topic. I will shut up now!

Good news for us - just had a text saying the test was negative. He is still really quite unwell but at least its not that. I can now send my other son in to school do his mocks tomorrow and go for my scan with a clear conscience. And if the poorly one is no better tomorrow I can call the GP and they won't just say "Sounds like Covid". Hope your DD is soon on the mend @Kanangra It must be hard for you both with her being away. No matter how grown up they get its natural to want to be at home when they're ill. 😢

No experience of this particular brand sorry, but I have bought lots of stuff from outside of the EU over the yeas. It seems to be quite random whether you get customs charges or not. I have had plenty of packages that have just been delivered with no questions asked, others that have been held until extra charges have been paid but not opened(you get a card through the door a bit like a failed delivery card telling you how much andd how to pay) and one or two where the package has been opened to see whether it actually is what the label says it is. One was a tutu which they had then seriously failed to get back into the box properly, so it was very obvious that it had been taken out and looked at. I've tried to figure out whether there is any logic to it but have concluded that there isn't as I have had high value parcels sail through and cheap things stopped. Country of origin doesn't seem to make any consistent difference either. I suspect they just pick out parcels ar random. So you might get an extra bill, or you might not. I've never had a huge bill, but if you are worried it might be better to look for a UK stockist.

Congratulations to the yesses and the SWLs and commiserations to the nos. Its nearly 15 years since my DD was at this stage but I remember how difficult it was, so thought I would share a few thoughts. 1) Nos remember that you are in a big majority. Only around 10% of JA applicants get a place and that seems to be fairly consistent over the years. On forums like this, you can sometimes get a bit of a skewed perception as naturally, people are more likely to share good news. But be assured, you are not alone. 2) The children that audition for JAs are on the whole the strongest dancers in their local school and this is often their first big disappointment. That's tough. They will be sad, and so will you. That's ok. But there is more to ballet than the RBS, more to dance than ballet and (sshhh...) more to life than dance. Allow yourself some time to be sad, then start looking forwards. 3) A yes or SWL is a "good sign" - well done! But a no is not necessarily a "bad sign". 4) Yes, SWL or no, the chances of any child, having a successful career as a classical ballet dancer is absolutely tiny. Whatever your JA news, keep that in perspective and don't let it become the only acceptable goal. 5) Your child is just as talented, lovely and special now you have read that email as they were before. Nothing has changed about them, but they may well need your help to understand that.

Thanks Fiz. I hope so. He was complaining of feeling dizzy earlier and not being able to hear normally, so maybe its an ear infection. Another aspect of the Covid fall out is that of course any pyrexial illness is Covid until proven otherwise now, so I know there is little point in calling the GPs until I have got the test result. Hopefully I will get it back soon then know one way or the other and can get a doctor's appointment if its negative and he is still poorly. I know I was super lucky to be able to get a test quickly given the problems many have had so I am very grateful for that.

Yes, hope your DD gets well soon @Kanangra I have just taken my son for a test. He came home with what looked like a bog standard cold yesterday but today he had a temperature of 38.5c and we were fortunate to be able to get a test right away. I've got my fingers crossed its negative, but have a sinking feeling it won't be. My other son is half way through his A level mocks and i have a scan booked at the end of the week that I have been waiting for months for so its not the ideal time to have to isolate. I appreciate that others have it far worse though.

I think quite a few people were following our plight Fiz! I know it sounds a bit nutty but I could physically feel the support from forum members that day. Even though nobody could actually do anything practical to help,just knowing that other people cared, and "got" why it was so important for us to get there made a huge difference. (As opposed to my husband who said "Ah well, never mind, its not the end of the world" or some similarly helpful comment!) It is one of the really special things about this forum. Yes, there are a few disagreements, but the vast majority of members are totally supportive of others for the vast majority of the time. You don't get that in many places, real or online. The people here really show what nonsense the stereotype of the pushy, selfish "dance mum" is.

We had a near disaster at RAD HQ too, for DD's Adv 1. In fact the forum helped save the day! Things weren't great from the outset as DD had been injured and shouldn't really have been doing the exam to be honest, but it was the very last sitting of the old Adv1 syllabus and she desperately didn't want to miss it, so we'd had some emergency physio a few days previously to try to get her well enough to do it. We'd travelled down to London on the train the evening before, but part way down she developed a migraine (stress I suppose) and spent much of the night vomiting and being unable to see. I didn't think she would be able to dance, but next morning she felt better, had breakfast and said she wanted to try. The exam was in the early afternoon so we spent the morning wandering around Covent Garden, thinking that our problems were over. We got the bus to Battersea in plenty of time, intending to allow enough time to grab a light lunch in one of the nearby cafes. All seemed well. But no. There had been an accident and the roads were totally gridlocked. The bus went off its normal route in an attempt to get through but it was no better. Time was ticking on and I knew that not only would there be no time for lunch but we might miss the exam. DD was getting distraught. I contemplated getting off the bus but a taxi would have had no more prospect of getting through the traffic and it was too far to walk, not to mention the fact that by this time I didn't know where we were! I tried to phone the RAD to at least let them know what was happening, hoping they might let her go in later if there was space, but nobody answered. Then I had the idea of posting here, as I had an idea that other members had said they were going on the same day. And indeed there were! I ended up exchanging messages with another Mum whose DD was in the same exam, and they let the RAD know. Whilst they couldn't move DD's exam they did say that if she got there before the exam had actually started, even if the other girls had gone in, she could do it. Somehow just having the other Mum to communicate with took the pressure off and made me feel better. DD got changed under her coat on the bus, and we literally ran into the building just in time for her to go straight into the studio and start the barre work. She got a good Merit. Not the highest mark she ever had but possibly the one I am proudest of, given the circumstances. So the lessons are to leave a lot more time to get from central London to Battersea than you think you need, and don't forget the magic of this forum in your hour of need!

Another festival panic I had was the first time DD got a bit of make up on a costume. Then I made it worse by trying to clean it off with baby wipes. I was distraught, thinking that it would look terrible and the costume would never be usable again. But I sat in the audience and realised that if I couldn't see it (and I was looking for it!) then the adjudicator definitely wasn't going to spot it. Or indeed care, even if they did. I later noticed how many marks there were on lots of the older dancers' costumes when you saw them close up, and how completely unfazed everyone else was about it. Is strange what you think is important at times!

I am sure those of us with older/grown up DCs have lots of things that if we had the ability to travel back in time with our current knowledge, we would do differently, and some of those will be quite big, serious things. I know there's plenty I would change. But as something of a counter to the sad and serious world we are living in at present, let's stick to less major things and share some of the "if I knew then, what I know now.." learning points that might help newbies, or just amuse people. For me, it's ribbons. For years I struggled to sew, and to tie that awkward, stiff, 1.5cm or so wide ribbon that seems to be commonly sold as ballet shoe ribbon for flat shoes. I often wondered why it was so weird, but never questioned it as everyone else did it and I just accepted it was "the ballet way". Until that is, DD did EYB for the first time, and they wanted pointe shoe ribbon on the flat shoes. What a revelation! It proved far easier to sew, lots easier to tie, matched the colour of the shoes better, looked nicer (in my humble opinion) and DD said it was more comfortable. I never went back to the other stuff, even though some of the other mums looked shocked that I dared to defy convention! 😂 So I incite revolt....throw off your narrow ribbons and embrace pointe shoe ribbon for all ages!!

I feel for you @hfbrew. It is a terrible time for dance schools. The teachers that I know personally are all in much the same position - working harder than ever but with less income due to the class size restrictions and extra expenses. Like many small businesses, I think a lot of dance schools are in survival mode, just hoping they can ride things out and still be in business when better times arrive. I think the economic effects are really starting to hit home. I see news of local businesses closing almost every day now. A few days ago it was our local dancewear shop, today a positively iconic hotel that, I am sure, everyone thought would be there forever. I fear more dark times are ahead. Obviously it is nowhere near as bad as it is for those who make their living from a dance school or similar, but even voluntary groups are not immune. I volunteer with several community sports clubs and all have suffered financially to some degree. We have still had our big annual expenses of insurance and affiliation to our national governing bodies,which have to be paid whether we are active at present or not. The sessions that we have run have been loss making as the venues we use have, quite understandably,still charged us the full rate, or indeed extra due to increased cleaning costs, we've had extra expenses for PPE etc and far lower income than usual due to limited numbers. As we run on a shoestring as it is, in order to keep our activities as accessible as possible, we don't have a lot of money in the bank. We've enough of a buffer to survive this year, but if we don't get some semblance of normality back by next year, I'm not sure. The effects of Covid-19 are going far beyond the direct impact on health and I think people (generally - not specifically the members of this forum) need to do what they can to support their local community, charities and industries that matter to them. Sorry for the rather bleak outlook, but I have been quite depressed by the number of parents who, having done nothing to support our clubs either financially or practically this year, have cheerily told me "But don't worry, we will be back when everything is back to normal." I've then been accused of emotional blackmail when I've replied "If there's something to return to." Obviously I appreciate that some are already in genuine financial hardship, or are shielding etc and really can't contribute anything, but not everyone. A lot of people still seem to be labouring under the illusion that everything is just going to magically return to how it was pre pandemic when it is finally over. Maybe that's a coping mechanism, I guess we all need something to look forward to, but it isn't realistic. As a society, we need to adjust our expectations considerably.

The whole situation is a nightmare. The situation Fiz describes is clearly unacceptable. If I understand the Scottish education system correctly, first years can be as young as 17, and even those who are technically adults are still very young and for many it will be their first time living away from home. If it was my child, and the circumstances are indeed as are being widely reported, I would be very worried and upset. However, universities, colleges and schools still have costs to cover, including staff to pay and the money has to come from somewhere. I have little time for the current government but I do think they are in a difficult situation here and the public purse cannot fund everything. Most of the economy has been hit hard, there are very few "winners" in any of this, but as Kate_N and others have said, if we want the businesses and facilities that we enjoyed prior to the pandemic to still be there after it then we have to carry some of those costs. Even things like clubs run by volunteers are suffering from people not being willing to pay subscriptions to keep things ticking over, and they have relatively small outgoings, so for businesses it must be even worse. I know of several dance schools who have been unable to reopen, and I suspect there will be many more to close if things don't improve soon. Even big names may not be safe in the long term.

That's very kind of you @Kate_N I am under a lot of stress at the moment for various reasons so not sleeping well and I'm sometimes a bit anxious to look back at my late night posts in case I've written something really stupid or unintentionally offended anyone in my sleep deprived haze.🤣 So it is very nice to learn that I've actually helped someone in some small way!

I agree with everyone else who has said to talk to your current teacher and also to consider additional things like associates and youth ballets rather than necessarily lessons at another studio. My personal view, and I'm just a Mum so don't claim any particular expertise, is that if you have a good teacher who your DD "clicks" with, then at this stage you may be better off sticking there. I think that as dancers get more experienced and older there is definitely a lot to be said for having lessons with different teachers. They may see things that one teacher has not spotted or has become blind to because they know a pupil well, explain things in a different way that helps the dancer overcome difficulties, or see potential that a longer standing teacher has overlooked because they have set ideas about what a pupil's strengths and weaknesses are. And of course teachers have different strengths so different ones can definitely complement each other and it can be very useful to experience different teaching methods. But....it can also be confusing. Different syllabi use different terminology, different teachers might teach the same step slightly differently or disagree with each other etc. An older, more experienced dancer is generally better able to understand and cope with this, but it can be a challenge for some younger dancers. Obviously everyone is different and it may be that your DD would thrive with different teachers, but it would be important to ensure that the two studios were complementary rather than contradictory and that the standard of teaching in the second school was good enough. Ultimately you are your DD's mum and its up to you where she goes, but when teachers ask that their pupils don't dance elsewhere without their permission it may be for good reason. I always used to think that it was just them protecting their own businesses and that asking for exclusivity was unreasonable, but having seen the huge variation in standards from school to school, I can now see why some teachers ask that their pupils only attend their own classes and particular associates etc.

I would support the suggestion of applying for associates, youth ballets, workshops and summer schools as and when they become available again, as this will give you a fair idea of where your DD stands compared to others and they can be hugely enjoyable. But do bear in mind that your daughter is very young and a great deal can change with time, especially as puberty does its work. So much that determines whether a dream of career in dance becomes reality is both outside our control and unpredictable that personally, I would not give it too much thought at this stage. As ever, Anna C has given particularly fabulous advice. It is all too easy to get sucked into a particular way of thinking and behaving if you have a child who has some talent and a love of dance. Sometimes we get steam rollered into spending more and more time and money on dancing because we feel we are depriving our children of a future career if we don't "keep up" with others. That is true to a certain extent when they get older I suppose, but not, in my humble opinion, at primary school. If I had my time again I would probably have my DD do less dance and more other stuff as a young child to be honest. I would always advise against spending more time or money than you can reasonably afford on dance, or any other hobby, particularly at this stage. If it feels like too much, cut back, if it doesn't and your DD is enjoying herself then carry on, but don't base that decision on the probability of a successful career, because its tiny for anyone, even those who seem to have everything going for them. And if you are unhappy with the school, if the teachers or other parents are not kind or supportive or the atmosphere undermines your DD's confidence and spoils her enjoyment, look for another one. Yes, there is always a bit of one upmanship from parents and children in any competitive hobby, but different schools do have different ethoses. I know its not what you asked, but if its a possibility for you I would be looking for a school that is less complicated and political before getting extra opinions. The thing that matters most about dancing is that it makes those who do it and those who watch happy, so if that's not the case in the current school it may not be the right place for your DD.