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Pups_mum

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Everything posted by Pups_mum

  1. As has been discussed quite a lot on here recently, it can be really hard to step away from an opportunity for all kinds of reasons, including fear that it will count against your child in the future or that you are shutting a door that will never reopen, guilt that you are turning down something that many would give their eye teeth for, and sadness at ending a relationship with people or an institution that's been important to you. Those are all normal feelings and totally understandable. It can need real strength to walk away from a scheme - especially a very prestigious one. But the message that the dance journey needs to be enjoyable in its own right is something that can't be stressed too much. It sounds like your child is expressing his feelings about MAs quite clearly and is in alternative training that he enjoys. Not every scheme is right for every dancer. It isn't necessarily a reflection on either the student's or teacher's abilities, just that they don't gel. If that happens it really is best to say goodbye and move on.
  2. I agree with Rowan that 16 hours of training is too much for a 10 year old whatever their hopes are for the future. I coach young people in a sport and the rule of thumb we are taught for school aged children is that even the most enthusiastic and committed young athlete should not be doing more hours per week training than their age in years, including the sport they do in school and any other out of school sports. Obviously not everyone will agree with that and I certainly know of children who do more, but from my observation there is a high risk of those who put in very long hours from a young age becoming "burned out" both physically and mentally. Rest and recovery are a very important part if any athlete's training, especially whilst they are young. The more you tell us the more it sounds like you need to find another school. You've got excessive hours, unsupportive teachers, classmates who are essentially bullying your DD and mothers who are doing the same to you - that sounds like a pretty toxic environment. There must be somewhere better surely? Somewhere more nurturing where both she and you will be treated kindly - I'm sure that would make a world of difference.
  3. This all comes down, I think, to a topic which has been discussed many times on here but is very important and bears repeating. The chances of a successful career as a professional ballet dancer in a classical company are tiny for any child, even those who seem to have all the right attributes at this age. That is why it is absolutely crucial that young dancers enjoy what they are doing in the here and now, rather than being too focused on any particular end point. Personally I don't believe that the vast majority of 10 year olds should be doing anything super intensively .They should be doing things that interest them and bring them joy, regardless of whether they are likely to make a career from their interests. Your DD's happiness is of paramount importance. If the lessons she is currently having are not making her happy, then shop around. She absolutely does not have to give up ballet because she has entered puberty early or because she doesn't have the "perfect ballet body". There is no such thing as a dancer who is "unworthy" of high quality teaching because of their physique. But there is another side to the coin. There are many parents on this forum and others who regret allowing ballet, or other activities such as music or sport become all encompassing for their child. Many say that they wish that they had been more aware of the realities of vocational training and the tiny chances of success - at least as measured by professional contracts. So it's possible that the teachers are, albeit rather clumsily, trying to get that message over. My DD doesn't have the "right" physique and the issue was always skirted around. I was frequently told stories of dancers who had made it despite not having the ideal physique, but the fact is that they are exceptions because they are exceptional, or that things can change with time, ignoring the fact that a quick look around our family strongly suggested otherwise! I would never have stopped her dancing and she may well have followed the same kind of path (she's a dance teacher now and very happy) but I wish we'd not fallen for the "you can be anything if you try hard enough" mantra for as long as we did. I know people were trying to be kind, but more honesty would actually have made things easier I think. I would steer well clear of any teacher who focuses on pushing a small group of pupils towards a professional career and is not interested in the rest, but there may be a different motivation behind the comments. There's a big difference between " your body shape makes you inferior to the other girls and you are not allowed in this class" and some gentle guidance that maybe the vocational path isn't the right way to go and it's hard for us to know what your DD's teachers are actually getting at. But the bottom line remains the same - put your DD's well being first and seek out an environment where she is happy and valued for who she is, not looked down on for who she's not. And if she loves to dance that is the very best reason for her to take dance classes.
  4. Yes, I think it is very important to recognise that not every young dancer has a bad time at vocational school. At any given time there are probably some who are having a wonderful time, others who are miserable and others at all points between - even in the same class. It happens everywhere doesn't it? The same can be said of academic schools, workplaces, sports teams etc. Sometimes it's because particular people are treated more or less favourably of course, but other times it's just because they are different people with different needs and expectations. I had an absolutely wonderful midwife when I have birth to my youngest child so I was disappointed for my friend when she gave birth a few weeks later and told me that her midwife was awful. But as the conversation went on it became apparent that we'd had the same one! And she'd been much the same with both of us, it was just that her way of working fitted with what I wanted but my friend needed something different. I don't think anyone here wants to scare parents, just to raise awareness. It is so easy to get swept along with all this and it can be very hard to step off the conveyor belt once you are on it, whether your DC goes to vocational school at 11 or not. I think the message is really about being alert to possible problems and not being afraid to rock the boat or walk away if it becomes apparent that something isn't working for your DC. And try not to get drawn into an "arms race" - you don't have to do something just because "everyone else" is.
  5. I think when we talk about regrets it's worth remembering something which I learned in counselling around an unrelated issue. The only thing you can guarantee would have happened if you'd made different choices is that things would have been different. It sounds obvious really but I'd never consciously thought about it. I had fallen into the common trap of believing that if I'd made a decision the outcome of which was "bad" then if I'd made the opposite choice the outcome would have been "good". Ergo, all bad outcomes were the result of my bad decision making. But it ain't necessarily so. The other choice would have led to another outcome but there is no way of knowing what that would have been. It might have been better, but equally it could have been as bad or worse. All any of us can do is make what we believe are the right decisions with the information we have at the time. Sometimes that won't work out the way we hoped. We need to accept, learn, and move on. Easier said than done if course but I am getting better at not dwelling on the past and "if onlys".
  6. Good question. One I have asked myself many times. Would I do things differently if I had my time again? Yes, definitely. I would without doubt encourage DD to make some different choices. But would I have not done it at all? No, I don't regret letting her follow her passion and the positives by far outweigh the negatives. Much like Anna C has said, I don't want any of my children to look back on life and say "Maybe I could have done X but you stopped me". (Within reason of course - my youngest recently expressed an interest in skeleton luge and I did say no to that!) I wish I'd been less trusting and asked more questions and looked at some different institutions but I don't regret letting DD do what she loves. She's a teacher now, so still doing what she loves even though she never "made it" as a performer, and I can't honestly imagine her doing anything else.
  7. There's often a lot of movement on waiting lists for upper schools as there are so many more of them than lower schools. Quite a lot of people apply to multiple schools and get more than one offer so it takes a while for things to settle down as everyone decides and more offers are made. If you're on a waiting list, don't lose heart at this point. Fingers crossed for good news for you all.
  8. That's good. I found it helpful. Just accepting that it's normal to have these feelings and that you're not actually weird or the only one to feel that way is a good start. It's paradoxically often easier to talk to a stranger than people that are close, so hopefully it will help your DD.
  9. I really feel for your DD @Glissé. Different situation but with some parallels- I've recently had to take early retirement due to ill health, from a role that was a massive part of my entire adult life. I know exactly what she means about not knowing who she is any more as my profession was a huge part of my identity. Obviously my situation is different, but the best advice I can give is to keep looking forward and not dwell on things you can't change. I know this sounds a bit drastic but would she consider seeing a counsellor? Talking to someone neutral can be very helpful. They won't tell her what to do but ot might help her find her own answers.
  10. Well said @Anna C I completely understand the disappointment of not gaining a place. In some ways getting to finals and then getting a no must be tougher than getting a no from prelims. It's also natural to want to dissect the results and try to figure out what's going on - we've all done it. But speculation really doesn't help anyone. I think social media makes us feel that we know people, but for the reasons already discussed on this thread and others, a lot of that isn't completely real. And I've said it before but I'll say it again (in fact I've said it thousands of times in my working days!) Correlation does not necessarily mean causation. Even if people have correctly identified commonalities between a number of successful candidates those things may or may not have been factors in the decision - we simply don't know and probably never will. I also don't believe that the RBS, or any other school for that matter, take dancers to finals who have no prospect of a place. If your child has got that far they clearly have a lot of potential and did very well in the prelims. And please parents, don't blame yourselves - you all sound like lovely supportive parents but so much in this whole ballet world is beyond our control. Try not to think "if only I'd known or done XY or Z". My DD didn't go to a lower school so I don't have first hand experience but many friends whose children did have told me that its very much back to basics at the beginning of year 7. So its very unlikely that parents not being able to afford private lessons with "big names" etc will have much, if any impact. All the finalists have done wonderfully well, whatever their backgrounds. I'm sure that new and exciting opportunities will come the way of all your lovely little dancers if they keep on dancing with joy. Those opportunities might not be right now, and may look quite different to what you imagine now but these experiences are never wasted.
  11. That wasn't quite what I was getting at @Kate_N, maybe I didn't express myself very well. I don't mean opportunities for other dance related work, more like additional opportunities for high quality training and performance outsids of the vocational system. One of my sons plays hockey at county level currently. Technically he is very good but he lacks the physical attributes he needs to follow the pathway designed to develop professional/international standard players. A couple of years ago he was invited to trials for that type of thing but didnt quite make it and the feedback (yes, we got some!) indicated that it was predominantly a physique issue. Hurray! Honesty! We know where we stand. But its not an issue. He still plays for the county, can still go on courses where he us coached by the best of the best - nobody scrutinises his photo first before deciding whether he is worthy of that opportunity. He might not be going to progress up the England Hockey pathway but it the opportunities are not just linear, they spread out too - there will be great opportunities at University, thriving adult and even veteran leagues all over the country and so on. He will be able to continue to play at potentially a pretty high standard for as long as he wants. The vast majority of players are not aiming to win Olympic medals or play in the professional leagues but there are still loads of other options that are not seen as "failure." But dance just doesn't seem to be like that. I know it isn't impossible to access high level teaching with a less "suitable" physique because I've been through that with my DD. But it's hard, and a lot of doors shut because of it. There doesn't seem to be an easily accessible route for able and enthusiastic young dancers to develop beyond their local dance school if they don't have the physique for a professional career. Yes, there's some, like EYB for instance, but even things like that get less from age 18. Again I know there are some adult companies but relatively few, and if you don't go to University and/or live outside a big city they are scarce. The whole system seems to be focused on identifying those who might go on to be professional rather than developing the art more widely. I know so many lovely dancers who have just stopped at 18. Such a shame. And I wonder how many children and families get sucked into the vocational system and potentially difficult experiences when they just started out wanting something extra for a child with talent and a love for dance, but the system inexorably pulls tgem along? Sorry, I've rambled and I'm still not sure that I've explained properly what I mean. But there's just a different "feel" about ballet somehow, and a different perception. It occurred to me as I was typing this that nobody has ever said to me "Why do you bother with all this hockey stuff? He's never going to earn his living at it is he?" But I heard that about my DD and dancing so many times. Other parents don't quiz me about my son's career intentions when he plays well and his team wins, but I was asked that incessantly about DD. Why does ballet have to be leading somewhere when sport can just "be"?
  12. That's a really interesting point @Anna C There is a strange level of expectation in ballet its true. It's there in other things such as sport too, but not quite to the same degree. I will never forget another mother asking me "Well what are you going to do with her now?" when my DD didn't get into RBS JAs. The inference was now that as she, at the ripe old age of 8, had "failed" at ballet I needed to find something else for her to try. My reply was "Nothing. She's the same child as she was before I opened that letter and nothing changes." (Showing my age there - no email then!!) Even the language used is kind of disparaging. How often do we hear words like "just a hobby" and "only a recreational dancer" as though anything other than a professional career is worthless. What nonsense. As long as dance is bringing joy, to the dancer and those who watch, it is very worthwhile. I think part of it is a relative lack of progression opportunities for dancers other than the vocational route. If you play a competitive sport there are often loads of options besides a professional career to continue beyond childhood, even into quite old age in some sports But there's not so much in dance, particularly ballet so I think people sometimes view it as pointless. Maybe there needs to be more development opportunities for dancers who don't aspire to a professional career? The process of selection as a potential professional starts so young, when a child can't possibly understand the implications. Really what is needed are enrichment opportunities- the chance to do more of what they love, without it being a precursor to, well, anything - art for art's sake if you like. I wonder how much heartbreak could be avoided if there was some kind of system whereby children with more enthusiasm and talent than average could be developed and encouraged but without it being seen as a career choice. The exam boards could start by ditching the term "vocational exams" maybe?
  13. It's certainly a double edged sword. Not dance, but I run the social media accounts for a couple of sports organisations and have mixed feelings about it. I think that in this day and age it is more or less impossible not to have a social media presence simply because everyone else does and it tends to be the first place people go for information. In some ways I love it. It makes life so much easier to be able to write "Training cancelled tonight due to bad weather sorry" once and know that the message is out within seconds than to try to call everyone, and during the pandemic it has been a great way to keep in touch with members. But, I am acutely aware of the pitfalls. I don't accept friend requests on my personal accounts from under 18s apart from one or two who really are friends as our families are close. Any pictures I post from training or competitions are very general with no names, or occasionally just first names. I am very careful about what links I share, especially anything related to nutrition and I delete any comments I think could be damaging. I've stuck to Facebook predominantly though we do gave a Twitter account too. I've steered clear of Instagram despite it seemingly being the youngsters' preferred option. I don't really "get" Instagram and it seems the more toxic environment to me - but maybe that's because I'm old and don't really understand it. And to be honest, it's the parents that are my target audience at least as much as the young people and most ofvtgem use FB. I think social media is here to stay whether we like it ir not, so we have to embrace it and try to use it wisely, but it certainly has the potential to cause great harm if we're not very careful.
  14. The other thing to be wary of is conflating correlation with causation. The fact that the majority accepted into WL are JAs and/or belong to multiple associate schemes doex not necessarily mean that they get into WL because they are associates. Rather it's likely that the associates and full time school are looking for the same things, so if a child has the characteristics that associates are looking for then s/he likely also has the characteristics that the full time school want. Of course there are children who never applied for associates and others who have changed considerably since a JA "no" and then get a WL "yes" but statistically both those things are relatively unlikely. Surely most children who are keen to apply to a specialist school when they are 10 have been pretty committed to dancing for a number of years and have applied for associatesand other schemes already. The "Billy Elliot" scenario is rare because children in that situation are rare - but it's not impossible and does occasionally happen. I don't believe any vocational school takes youngsters to finals to make up the numbers so all those who were invited clearly have potential.
  15. It is an interesting topic. I've got two main thoughts though. You only see what people choose to share and you can't change what you can't change.... Social media, and even forums like this can be very misleading because they only show a snippet of what's really going on. I don't doubt that there are youngsters and schools with a very active social media presence who have been successful gaining places. But by definition we don't see those who are not in the same mould. The quiet kid from the modest local dance school that doesn't have an Instagram page but who gets multiple offers won't be noticed by the outside world, simply because they don't publicise themselves. So it becomes easy to believe that it is only the social media savvy dancers and schools that have sucess. I really don't think that's the case. And whilst it is human nature to try to analyse admissions and try to figure out what panels are looking for, in reality nobody ever really knows and overthinking things only causes more stress and anxiety. A huge amount of things are beyond our control, and ultimately all anyone can do is turn up and try their best. I know that sounds a bit fatalistic but from sometimes bitter experience I have come to the conclusion that the best approach is simply to be yourself, try your best and hope for the best. It's far easier said than done of course - we all want to support our children's dreams however we can - but it's easy to get sucked into this crazy competitive world and become over invested. It's always been that way to a degree, but social media makes it much much worse. I suspect that a lot of what we see isn't "real" and is best ignored really.
  16. As is often said on this forum, the destination for any young dancer is far from certain - only a very small number go on to successful classical careers - so it is incredibly important that the journey is enjoyable in its own right. If any particular teacher or scheme is making a young person unhappy then I would seriously doubt the value of continuing, no matter how prestigious it is. Yes, a lot of good teachers really challenge their pupils and can be strict, but there's a big difference between that and creating an atmosphere in which the pupils feel demoralised and unhappy. There have been a lot of threads recently that have discussed teaching practices and their effect on young people and a lot of people have said similar things - that their DCs ended up in environments that weren't right for them but that the dancers and/or their parents were afraid to speak out. When you/your child gains a place at a sought after school or scheme it can be very hard to speak up or walk away but if you read the threads, the vast majority of parents say that they wished they'd listened to that inner voice that was telling them that all was not well. Nobody thrives in an environment where they are unhappy. The wider educational world recognises that fear and humiliation are not useful tools if you want to get the best out of a pupil but some dance teachers seem stuck in these habits, probably because that is how they were taught and sadly they know no dufferent.. I think it's really good that you are questioning the value of this scheme for your DD. If your gut instinct is that it isn't beneficial then I would listen to that - you know her better than anyone.
  17. My DD experienced this both ways. Her academic school made it pretty clear that they thought that dance was a waste of time and didn't include her in the list of leavers' destinations. Other pupils going to do music degrees, fine art, film, and media made the cut, but it seems a dance degree was not worth a mention. And then when she decided to go straight into teaching instead of trying to pursue a performing career she was looked down on by both peers and some teachers. Fortunately she is secure enough in her own decisions not to let it get to her too much, but I know it still hurt her. I'm not certain that is solely a ballet thing though. Certainly when I was at medical school those who swapped to other courses, or possibly worse, completed the course but didn't practice, were looked down upon and not given any real support or advice on what to do next. That was a long time ago now though, so hopefully things have changed for the better now. It's a ridiculous attitude wherever it is exhibited though. Even at 18 we are not fully mature - never mind at 10 or 11 when many children are asked to nail their colours to the ballet mast. It is surely only to be expected that many will change their minds, if for no other reason than they have grown up and found other interests. Goodness, how many of us ended up doing as adults what we thought we'd be at 18, never mind 11? I didn't even know that my eventual specialty existrd when I was 11 and I would have struggled to write more than a couple of sentences about it at 18. In fact it wasn't on my radar when I graduated either. So why would anyone look down on a dancer for changing direction when they are just doing the same as most of us - growing up, not giving up. Some will grow into ballet, others will grow away.
  18. Just back to the EU passport issue - just be aware that some countries don't recognise dual nationality. Our family could fairly easily get citizenship of another European country, but we would have to renounce our British citizenship, which for the time being at least we don't want to do. It isn't the same everywhere of course, but it's worth checking the legislation in individual countries if you do have a claim to another nationality. I had just assumed we would be entitled to both and was disappointed to find we aren't. (But glad we did find out before we got far with it.)
  19. Oh you poor things. I wish I could smuggle you all into the school where I'm on the testing team and do it for you. It really is a very straightforward thing to do and it seems nonsensical that all these hurdles are being put in your way. One thing that did occur to me which might help someone is that if your children are at schools which are part of a Multi Academy Trust that has secondary schools within it, you might be able to argue that they are pupils of the same "organisation" and get in that way? I know staff from the primaries that are part of our MAT have been offered tests at the secondary. We've not tested any of their pupils to my knowledge but it might be possible so if you're in that position there's no harm in asking. Age could still be an issue I suppose, but those who have already turned 11 may be in a stronger position as of course there are secondary pupils being tested at 11. Our year 7s that are still 11 have to be accompanied by a parent when they are tested, whereas pupils 12 -15 don't, as long as we have written parental consent and the child's verbal consent. 16+ can give their own consent. That's what the local Director of Public Health has instructed anyway.
  20. Hi @Bunny I'm a volunteer at a local lateral flow test programme and I can confirm that there's no time on your result. We do record the time the test is done - largely because the result has to be read at a specific time after it's been started - but when you get the result it just says "your test taken on X date". The way it works is that you are given a card at the test centre with a barcode that relates to your specific test and a code number for the test centre. When you get home you need to create an account via the website (you should be given a letter with instructions at the test centre) and enter the codes. Then you get a text or email later with the result. Mine usually takes a few hours to come through but I guess it may vary from place to place. For what it's worth, it is a very straightforward process and I've found the results service very efficient. (Volunteers have to be tested regularly themselves.) Good luck with everything.
  21. You may find it less traumatic this year Isabella, as you will have more idea what it's all about. JAs is often the first "no" that many dancing children receive and it's tough for both them and their parents. For many of us it is our first contact with the wider ballet world outside of our local schools and it can come as a bit of a shock to realise quite how many talented children there are out there and how tiny the odds of "success" are. Remember that the majority of auditionees will be amongst the most able pupils in their local school and are probably already used to getting high marks in exams, winning local competitions etc. They are all good dancers - but only around 10% will be chosen. But despite knowing the figures intellectually, I think it still hits us emotionally when the "no" letter arrives. That feeling never completely goes away, but the first time is definitely worst. Most people's ballet journeys are a mix of yesses and nos, ups and downs, and as someone said earlier it's the same in many other activities. Some things are a bit easier to understand though as there are seemingly more objective measures - ballet can feel frustratingly opaque at times. I think it's important to be realistic and to remember that there's more to ballet than the RBS. I think we all tend to see RBS JAs as the "best" scheme for which they will select the most talented dancers so it feels like a slap in the face if your child isn't "good enough". But that's not really what it's about. Obviously the children they pick do have a lot of potential but they are looking for those who they think are most suited to their very specific way of doing things. Plenty of children don't have that, but do have something else, and would thrive elsewhere. I would always agree that getting into JAs is a "good sign" with regards to potential but not getting in isn't necessarily a "bad sign" if that makes sense? And ultimately what *really* matters is that a child is dancing because they love it and us enjoying the journey. If your DD enjoys the audition as an experience in it's own right, regardless of the result then that's a win. Good luck with whatever path you/she decide to follow.
  22. I shouldn't worry @InOverOurHeads. Over the years both in real life and on this forum I have come across many children who have got MA places without applying for WL. And also those who have got to WL finals and not been offered an MA place. It is yet another of those ballet situations where you can really tie yourself in knots and get very stressed trying to second guess things and work out "the system". It is easier said than done of course but I think if is better not to overthink these things because you can't really influence them. Also bear in mind that some children who are offered MAs will take up places at other vocational schools and turn down their MA place so there's often movement on the waiting list as people make final decisions about year 7. Good luck to your DD.
  23. If it's any help @Yrosered I had an MRI done privately last year via a company based in Leeds, though I had the scan in a mobile scanner nearer to where I live. They were very efficient - I got phoned with the results on the same day of the scan. Obviously that was all prior to this lockdown so things may be different now, but I am happy to dig out the contact details and send them to you in a private message if it's any help?
  24. Current education policy seems hell bent on destroying the arts. Many schools have reduced the number of GCSEs offered to take account of the increased demands of the new syllabi and are also insisting that pupils take EBacc qualifying subjects. The result is a sugnificant reduction in choice for pupils and it will be "non core" subjects which suffer. I think there were only 7 or 8 pupils in my son's GCSE music class out of a year of nearly 200 pupils. If class sizes for subjects like music, drama, art etc keep falling, how long before schools stop offering them at GCSE and A level? And if there are no exam classes, how long before the teachers are either made redundant or leave due to lack of job satisfaction? What a loss that would be to our young people and society in general. I'm a scientist and of course I "get" how important it is to teach STEM subjects well - but that should be possible without eradicating other parts of the curriculum This sounds like more of the same and it makes my blood boil. I am fundamentally opposed to anything that deprives young people of choice. I dont have any personal experience of BTECs but I shall certainly pass the link on to people that I know who do. Thank you for raising awareness of this - its its clearly very important.
  25. This is a really interesting and I think very valuable thread. I think it is very important to acknowledge the realities of this world and how it affects us as parents as well as our DCs. I can relate to the feelings of shame expressed by several others. I think I was duped by sales patter too, failed to spot problems and also felt that I should slink away with my tail between my legs when my DD decided not to pursue a career as a performer, but I have kind of come out of the other side now and can see more positives. It can be really hard to walk away from something which you have invested so much time, effort and money in, even when it is not working out how you imagined or isn't making anyone happy any more. And of course this is not restricted to ballet - I've seen the same scenario in many different walks of life. Only this last week there has been a lot in the cycling press about one of the world's best riders who has gone home from his pre season training camp because he isn't sure he wants to continue. People are expressing incredulity that he would "give up" and he has been accused of letting people down, being weak etc. But others see it as I do - its brave and strong to recognise that something isn't working out - whatever the reason - and to take action to do something about it. In many ways it is easier to keep doing what you have always done. I dislike the term "giving up". It is loaded with negativity. I've started trying to reframe things. If someone asks me why DD has "given up" I now turn it round and say "Oh, you mean why has DD decided to pursue a teaching career?" A change of direction is not failure, but being unable to adapt to changing circumstances might be. Nor does it mean that it was wrong to explore your original path or that it was a waste of time, money and effort. Not if you have learned and developed as a result. The parents whose DCs have achieved successful performing careers have every right to be very, very proud of their children. But so do we that have children who have changed direction, whether that is in to another part of the dance world or something completely different. I think for our own and our DC's sakes as well as those who are earlier in the journey, honesty is crucial. Let's stick together and shake off any sense of failure or shame, as well as highlighting how "the system" needs to change. I have thought many times recently that I have nothing more to offer on this forum,but maybe actually I, and all of you, do still have a lot to say?
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