RobR

PM sent

Yes please. I’ll pm you 

Thanks @Buru,

I now get and appreciate your post. I’m afraid I sometimes just get caught up in the moment. 

12 minutes ago, Roberta said:

 

Yes! Usually First Soloists in gorgeous costumes doing not a lot. 

I stand to be corrected but I think this present run has had artists, first artists, soloists and first soloists dancing these princess cameos 

Edit: but the tutus are really lovely 

In the SL version prior to this present version (was it Dowell or Makarova) the dancing princesses performed a pas de six. There was minimal acting and the subsequent National Dances appeared a little random given the apparent lack of connection/context with the six dancing princesses. 
 

The Scarlett princesses (four rather than six) carry an element of the story.  They are in competition with each other for Seigfried’s hand and resent the arrival of Odile as a competitor, hence the ‘side-eye’ towards Odile, referred to in an earlier post. 
 

I have seen other SLs but enjoy Scarlett’s princesses more than the others. 

14 minutes ago, MAB said:

 

Had the late Clement Crisp made such a remark would you have accepted it?  Buru seems familiar with the ballet and has seen other productions and is therefore not an SL novice.  Surely it is best to be honest about what you see, after all it's only by experiencing the less good that you recognize the exceptional when you finally see it. 

Thanks @MAB,

I'm entirely happy to adopt @Robertas response but would add two things.

First, we all knew Clement Crisp's reputation and he posted under his own name and not a pseudonym. You suggest that @Buru ‘seems familiar with the ballet and has seen other productions and is therefore not an SL novice'. Who knows?
 

Second, whilst you may be right I can’t imagine Clement Crisp or any other professional critic, much less a fan on a forum such as this, singling out a particular and identifiable dancer (or two in this instance) in the way the original post did. 
 

13 hours ago, Buru said:

 

Unfortunately, after a very strong first act with a fantastic Jo Jun as Benno and decent (albeit with visible challenges in jumps) Siegfried’s sisters, followed by a touching first meet and adagio of the prince and Odette, the final part of the second act fell apart for me. The cygnets danced in sync but felt heavy, the two swans were a disaster, Odette’s solo not convincing. And I’m not sure I saw Matthew rising two fingers as a sign of love vow in this act. I may have missed it but my companion didn’t see it either. 

 

I preface my remarks by making it clear that I have no particular connection to any of the dancers referred to in this this post, apart from having watched most of them dance and develop over the last twenty or so years.

I accept that this forum has members who have great experience and expertise in all aspects of ballet whether as watchers or with professional experience.

That said, I am concerned about this post. The poster may not have enjoyed this performance but I don’t understand what is meant by 'the cygnets danced in sync but felt heavy'. That seems to be critical but unclear. The poster may not have enjoyed it but without any information about the poster's critical experience or expertise I just don’t understand it.

 I am, however, more concerned by 'the two swans were a disaster'. This is criticism without clarity and worse, it comes across as a personal slight. Again we are given no clue as to why they 'were a disaster'. No explanation, just personal criticism.

5 hours ago, Roberta said:

 

 

Thanks James, and absolutely no need to be respectful, although I appreciate the courtesy, but as I hope I made clear, I’m not overly keen on opera but had thought I should try to see what others get from it and have seen a number of operas that I have enjoyed and two by Mozart, both of which I clearly misunderstood but which offended me, or my sensitivity. 
 

It’s possible that others in the audience, similarly unversed in the nuances of Mozart’s 18th century storylines will also have taken the ‘literal’ approach. 
 

I’m afraid I can’t see the relevance of the comparison with Onegin, and I am familiar with the ballet and, despite considering it further in the light of your comment, have never seen in it any behaviour that I would describe as mysogynistic. 
 

Still, I don’t imagine that we’re going to agree and, for the sake of other OF members (who’ve probably read enough of our views) and in a spirit of detente, perhaps we should leave it there. 

8 hours ago, Jamesrhblack said:

The plot of The Magic Flute is, indeed, a problem, not helped by the fact that the librettist seemed to switch tack about a third ot the way into Act One with the moral positions of the principal antagonists, the Queen of the Night and Sarastro, switching.

 

Così fan tutte is a different matter and the plot is, with respect, much more subtle than presented above. It may start from a male assumption that women are emotionally vulnerable, but, by the end, has shown that both men and women are emotionally vulnerable; that as human beings we make assumptions about relationships that are not necessarily sustainable; and that love is a complex issue. For me, it is one of the most fascinating operas in the repertoire, and there’s nothing misogynistic in the music Mozart writes for Fiordiligi in ‘Per pietà’ or ‘Fra gli amplessi.’

I have to accept that my views on opera may well be naive and that I may have missed the subtleties to which you referred but the thrust of my poorly made point is a concern about the way, in the opera, the two poor heroines' emotions are manipulated for the sake of a bet.

They are told that their beloved men have to go war. This is a 'humorous' ruse and the men go nowhere near a war.

The women do not receive any message(s) from the beaux for whom they are pining. Nor, in accordance with the bet, do the two men feel the need to send any message. 

The two men (manipulated by the obnoxious rake) return to the presence of the two women. They are heavily disguised and, for the sake of the bet, are happy for the rake and his assistant to try to persuade each of the heroines to give succour (I assumed both physical and emotional) to the 'other' beau rather than their own.

Each woman is bereft and very upset at what is happening yet their emotions are manipulated to cause each greater distress and the rake and the beaux seem entirely happy to pile indignity and stress onto the women they profess to love and cherish.

When I saw it, my prevailing feeling was not what a comic caper the plot is, not that in betting against the rake the beaux are defending their loves but that this 'comic' plot displays no sympathy for the feelings of the manipulated women and is, accordingly, abusive and misogynistic. 
 

You are entirely right about the fact that I didn’t get the subtleties of the plot.

I can understand why this issue is being discussed but am perplexed why nothing is being discussed about The Magic Flute or Cosi Fan Tutti, both regularly and recently performed at the ROH.

In the MF, the leader of the 'Freemasons', in encouraging the hero to forgo the heroine and join the brotherhood denigrates womankind as being intellectually inferior to men, a theme of the opera as I understood it, albeit unsuccessful.

In CFT, an unpleasant old rake bets the two male lovers that their loves are fickle and if they accept the wager, which they do, and follow his instructions he (the rake) will show the true nature of the women (and by the rake's lights) and women in general as being flighty and incapable of being the paragons their swains assert. 
 

What then follows (in the name of 'comic' opera) are a series of bizarre and unpleasant deceptions intended to make the poor and put upon heroines believe that their lovers are sent to war, killed or injured or have taken poison or (with the lovers complicit in the deception and disguised as strangers) must be slept with (?) to be restored to health.

Disregarding the music, which I appreciate many love, these misogynistic plots are far more in need of replacing than that of La Bayadere.

[I should say that I’m not a fan of Mozart and have a very limited appreciation and understanding of opera but, if there’s talk about rewriting ballet then opera should IMO, get the same treatment]

I fully understand the ‘dressing up’ issue. 
 

The jeans I wear to the ROH are generally newer than those I wear to the National Theatre 🤪

Hi Ann, most companies understand that relations (and guardians) want to see their children perform, particularly when dancing a lead role.

Perhaps your ward might speak to someone at ENBS, who can arrange for a ticket or two. 

And very nice to see Katharina Nikelski back dancing 

Me too!

(The exclamation mark is for emphasis 😀)

I’ve always watched it on the same basis set out by @ellyb

I’m sorry but your post is too vague for anyone to give any meaningful advice.

Assuming that your daughter attends a ballet school, and speaking as the parent of a daughter who did join a professional company, I strongly recommend that you discuss the options with your daughter’s teacher(s).

If you want to send me a pm, I’m happy to respond but I’m not sure that any additional advice I could offer would be particularly useful.

Thanks for sharing the link Roberta 😀👍

Thanks @Blossom for such a lovely review. 
I agree with it all. 
A really enjoyable evening 

2 hours ago, PeterS said:

I get offered Ukrainian girls several times a day.  is this connected to my having bought tickets to the Dance for Ukraine galas....? 

Good explanation - stick with it 👍😉

19 minutes ago, PeterS said:

Or perhaps a man who likes to wear women’s clothes and makeup?

Thanks for this, Peter. 
I’m rarely lost for words but this is one such occasion. 

1 minute ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

Actually I find it reassuring that AI, in what is probably its most straightforward and profitable application (targeted advertising), is so bad at figuring me out!

Well, if you start getting ads for shaving gear, beard trimmers and Y fronts, you’ll have to let me know 🤪

I love classical ballet (no surprise there) and as the owner of a Parson Russell terrier, dogs too.

Like many of you, I go to Instagram to find (ballet) news and photos.

I follow various dancers and other posters; @dancersdiary, @missbunnyman and @embracethe ballet, and others 

All straightforward so far but, what I don’t get is why my Instagram stream has so many advertisements and links to women’s clothing, fashion, swimsuits, make up, …. 
 

Do the cookies assume that because of my interest in ballet that I’m probably a woman?

Just now, Sim said:

I do too.  Itziar doesn’t have the prominence she deserves. She is excellent in everything she does.  Her Tatiana in Onegin a few years ago was heartbreaking. 

And Paulina in TWT

I see from tonight’s cast list that Itziar Mendizabal is Lescaut’s mistress tonight.

I was very impressed by her performance in the general (tbh I’m always impressed by her) so I’m sure those going tonight will enjoy her dancing and acting.