Nama

Isn’t the question - if entry is on merit alone to the RBS- how is the corporate sponsorship by a Japanese company specifically directed at students of a particular nationality fair. To maintain the theory that places are on merit - what happens when no Japanese students are above ( on merit) of say another nationality. What happens ? Are those students denied a place. Is there a certain amount of spots for students in a nationality? Or students on another basis identified by another donors preferred choice. Are spots open to individuals determining their preference for the donation and spot for a particular student. I was advised that all donor funds are now pooled for the whole year group to prevent the favouritism issues and pleasing donors et. Via sponsors evening dance selections and opportunities. Is this not now the case. I’m speaking from my dd being ex RBS for 5 years and these issues have been raised for years by parents. 
Sponsor and donations and lack of a conflict of interest register being available to parents - makes transparency impossible and opens RBS up to the position of being queried on their selection and promotion actions. Transparency should be rbs issue - not other people asking for information. As soon as a corporation or school even has questions raised about its motivation- regardless of being correct or not - there is a problem. Taking a corporate donation so openly and not disclosing how it’s regulated or controlled is unwise. Especially when it’s a school and kids are involved. !!!  As another issue - if you take out the prix spots and Yagp spots and now the Japanese Corp spots. And then the donor spots of big name rb sponors who fund each year a few favoured kids. ( and turn up to sponsor events and watch class etc on a private basis ) How many actual spots are being funded by the uk govt? And when the kids audition - how many spots are actually available each year ? How many kids audition and pay to audition - leading to what number of spots in reality ! 

On 12/01/2023 at 00:28, FlexyNexy said:

I applaud your daughter! We have been on very similar journey, and I wish my daughter would never chose career in ballet. It is horrible world! She had it all and travelled the world with her ballet and earlier musical theatre. Sailed through auditions, won school prizes and prix and with no contacts….she is just another dancer that had a chance to make it.
Since graduation only job offer, she received was to work for free in exchange for exposure. Whether it was US or Europe all was unpaid! UK only offered post graduate program which I followed for a while and so far only gave false hope to many dancers. She has given the unpaid role a go for a year and only came across bullying nature from directors and choreographers. It's all about who you know. We have seen it and live through it so no one needs to paint me another picture.
We have family friends who could fast track her to ballet companies, and she NEVER wanted to take that advantage. She wanted to achieve it in her own accord. I admire her for the young woman she is.
Ballet is great money-making scheme, very nice when you have little ballerina and you only worry about leotards and how to do their hair. But the reality hits you in the final years at upper school. 
Her peers from her class year gave up all together and the wealthier are paying their way through for the sake of saying I am a ballet artist.

My DD has been writing a journal ever since I can remember, and I am encouraging her to publish it. It would be a proper eye opener and reality check for many young wannabee dancers and parents and maybe will cause a scandal on what is really going on with establishments she has been involved with. I think few teachers would really have to be worried if their name is mentioned. What shocked me the most when she is constantly approached by her ex teachers desperate to know where she is so they can publish the success on their social media, they are not happy that she has shown cold shoulder to unpaid work. Hanging her shoes (me binning them same day in large black sacks) was the best decision she has made.
She is so content now, retrained and earning twice the salary of an young artist. She can finally be independent and free for the ballet culture and nastiness. She is like changed person. Full of life!

Congratulations to your young person. We have also supported our daughter through years of ballet - she walked away 4 plus years ago. Went to university- studied finance and graduated in December. She’s now got a fabulous career ahead in investment banking and starts in February. The road has been very difficult. The ballet world left her broken and required significant counselling and psychological help. Her confidence was crushed. She felt worthless and a failure - despite graduating from rbs !!! She had to find her voice and see value in herself that wasn’t defined and expressed by the ballet world. She’s learnt to see value in her brain and her opinions- her intellect and expression of her point of view. Her voice is powerful and in the real world valued and heard. She is no longer valued only on her bendy feet and high jumps. She can speak out - and is valued for being smart and articulate- not assessed as being too forthright. Silent women standing in line doing as they are told without an opinion is no longer for her !!! The opinion and assessment by the ballet world needs to reflect the real world and be cognisant of the psychological impact on the kids they are teaching and dealing with. This is not new - endless parents have told the leaders of these schools that their methods are unacceptable! Good transparent governance of these institutions requires reviews. They know this. But refuse to act.  The problems of conflict of interest and muddled favours and sponsorship events distorts true merit in selection. They all know this is a problem too - but it continues. The ballet world profits. Those involved know it works and no one wants to rock the boat. So best of luck to those involved. But congratulations and well done to the kids who have extracted themselves and achieved a new pathway. Well done !!! 

14 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

Especially when so heavily funded by British Tax Payers enabling ALL UK based students to be fully funded on a means tested basis.... so in theory  they don’t need to look for fee income from overseas...

Also I dare say they receive additional government funding via Charitable status, via Arts Fund grants & others....not to mention the philanthropic support of Corporste Comanies & Indovidusls (who in turn quite likely benefit from tax savings....again a ‘cost’ or loss of income to the exchequer so all of us in effect. Also, all those who click to add donations, all those who join as ‘friemds’, all those 1000’s paying the application & audition fees for courses....despite knowing the odds of gaining a place are so small. Often these small sums are quite hard for individuals to find but add up to a sizeable amount. I think it is an insult to all of them & all of us to then say they can’t find suitable home grown talent & surely suggests they have little faith on their own training to produce dancers of the calibre for professional work! It is morally questionable too. Does the  Government not have to audit or do due diligence on their funding to ensure it does indeed represent good value for money for U.K. tax payers?

This same relates also to other schools/colleges/unis & dance compsmies also.

On another side, it enrages me that Ballet Dancer’s I understand are in the list of employees that can be sourced overseas....ie. shortage of suitable dancers from UK resident population. 

Thus surely suggests also that the governments mivey is not being spent wisely in these training institutions to train their students to a good enough level.... or is it the way that their overseas students trained in the U.K., taking places away from British students & benefiting from the U.K. taxpayer cash spent on grants & the facilities they are spent on, apprenticeship teachers etc. etc. (Yes, I appreciate they are self funding via family/sponsorship/prizes awarded....who pays those ‘fees’ I wonder? (Again, if it’s a free place at RBS then is that the tax payer? Or a sponsor who might otherwise subsidise a U.K. student? 

I do get the whole argument of wanting/needing ‘the best of the best’ & to be a global player etc but I don’t think that is relevant in what is deemed the National Training Institution of excellence when intake numbers are so small anyhow. The ‘global’ element can be catered for by student exchanges surely? So our dancers benefit too from alternative training styles abroad? 

Of cotese, another cynical take on this is suggesting it’s the egos of these school leaders who want their career cv to see them as international players....

Jyst a few rambling thoughts...!

Totally agree. This has been discussed over and over on these forums by numerous parents - including me - in various threads.  Nothing has changed over the years. The funding methods for these uk schools relies heavily on Yagp and prix money for scholarships and influential sponsors and donors allocated to students and year groups. Prizes and scholarships. These kids then get showcased etc and promoted to satisfy the personal motivation of the donors to encourage them to keep donating - access to the kids and reflected glory all an intricate part of the whole funding method of these schools. The more prestigious the prize winner, more insta followers, the more the school wants the kid - the more likely those kids are pushed for job allocation. These matters are not new. It’s raised over and over again. Nothing changes - despite how often complaints are made and conflicts of interest are identified. Parents complain every year. No one listens to them. We speak out and nothing changes. Various parents have spoken out on these forums - yet the same thing happen over and over. If the teachers taught the kids properly in WL to world standard. -  then the kids would be world standard - so why seek a new batch to replace them in upper school. And why “assess” them out in year 2 and replace them with other kids taught by other schools. Surely the fact they are assessed out indicates a failure of the staff teaching the upper school kids. And what a joke that the kids been taught for as little as 12 months are then “graduated” into jobs at RB coy and BRB and other top companies in the world. Surely it’s a reflection of another teachers efforts - and just  a quick polish up by the current. school. There are numerous examples of this happening over the last few years. And why is it the kids assessed out are not provided with assistance to find another place in another prestigious school - the teachers of the incoming kids are getting pushed and supported to gain a place. Surely the assessed out kids deserve to be supported and assisted too. I know they are not helped and receive little if any counselling and direction.  This is not acceptable. 

Parents should complain and question what’s happening in uk schools and demand transparency through this whole system. Enough is enough. There are a large number of kids that have been treated poorly through this process in uk schools and it should be addressed and cease. 

On 07/10/2021 at 01:40, Luke Jennings said:

I've spoken to two LADOs now (Westminster and Richmond) and both emphasise that they are keen to know of historic as well as current cases at schools. The child does not have to be at the school any longer, or even to have been there recently. So you don't miss your chance, so to speak, when your child leaves. It's never too late. Every letter, email and phone call helps the LADOs build up a picture of an institution. The more they know, the more effectively they can act.

Totally agree.  My daughter - and we as parents spoke out about all this sort of stuff and the impact on our child. No other parents backed us up. We took it to the governors and board. No teachers backed our daughter up. They all stayed silent and stuck together. Even the house parents who are supposed to act as a safety net for the kids stuck to the staff. Everyone pretended they didn’t see her suffer. They didn’t see the other kids suffer too. Despite the fact that the counselling service was booked out all the time!!! What does that tell you!!! Those teachers all are aware and pretend it’s all fine. The kids in the company say how fabulous school is - but the real truth is told by the kids thrown out or have quit. The kids are hand picked to give feedback when the inspectors come to visit. And the sponsors etc see a facade.  It’s all a facade that needs the light. The board is trying to change things but it’s the staff that need looking into and re-educated or replaced. The Scarlett investigation was just the edge of it all. 

8 hours ago, Direction_of_your_dreams said:

Royal Ballet used to pay the upper school students they used to boost their corps, approx £60/show plus expenses and pointe shoes for the girls. This changed around 2015/16, their pay’ went to the school instead. Not hearsay, witnessed as had DC at school.  ENB cover stipend/travel/accommodation and pointe shoes for ‘My First’ productions and the graduate yr students used in company performances. Again, not hearsay.  This is common practice and nothing to do with Covid, yes it is great to put on CV but sadly rarely comes to anything 

Yes.  This is true - my daughter danced a lot for rb whilst a rbs student. The money was given to school and apparently used for helping students attend auditions. Although this was means tested - so my daughter earned a large percentage of the funds and was prevented from accessing the help !! The girls were also lent to brb for Albert hall and nutcracker season. The reason was supposedly to showcase the students and help with resume - didn’t help get them jobs. 

On 16/07/2021 at 09:35, Peanut68 said:

So am I reading this correctly? That up to 6 precious RBS upper school places (1 year?or 2? Or 3) offered from one competition alone????

this is NOT fair as no way is this an audition opportunity available to all (even fewer than usual in these covid travel restricted times too I’d imagine) 

I’d be interested to know how this sits with the huge subsidies/bequests/tax deductible corporate charitable gifts/gift aided donations etc where much of this giving is with the Sim of supporting BRITISH ballet training....surely Witt the hope/expectations of nurturing home grown talent?? Thoughts peeps....

From past experience and witnessed directly when daughter at RBS US - the Yagp pay for one year for the students.  Then they used to be allocated to a uk sponsor who attended sponsor showcases and performances.  They used to be noted in the programme at these events next to the sponsored students. The more prestigious the sponsor the more prestigious the student. It was always unclear how students were allocated to the most influential sponsors. Usually a board member or on the most significant internal committees. 

They are very present in the school and view the students more often than I did as a parent.  This was advertised to potential sponsors as part of the package. They attend the graduation with the students. Also as students progressed into the coy the sponsor follows the student and again attend events and sponsorship and lobbying continues. After numerous complaints by the uk parents and fee paying parents - systems changed to be a sponsorship for the year group.   Also awards and scholarships are allocated directly by the AD  to students requiring funding - and at the AD discretion.  It is a close relationship with  the funding source and the students success. Take a look at the annual report it lists all the funding methods.  Yagp officials are often visitors into the school and treated with great courtesy as you would imagine. The RBS board attempted to make it more translucent but in reality minor changes !!!!!

On 23/06/2021 at 19:51, cotes du rhone ! said:

Exactly 😢

They don’t care where they go so long as they leave quietly. And getting one pupil into a well known company isn’t a success. What about all the others ? Those missing from the graduate destination list because they were unsuccessful or chose a different path. No congratulations or recognition for them 😭 

Reading this is very upsetting- nothing has changed since my daughter graduated. Exactly the same experience - no recognition. Left off the list of published graduates. She’s still raising the issue with the school. Trying to make change. All just talk it seems. All the recent AD statements about mental health for students needs to include how they leave the school and transition too. They can’t say they are now focused on mental health when the students are being discarded at the end not helped or transitioned with respect.  Nothing changed - and again all advertising to protect their own reputation and brands. 

The Australian Human rights commission completed and released a report on treatment of gymnastic students. Made press here and sad reading. Mirrors the issues in ballet 

4 hours ago, Glissé said:

Exactly the same with my dd think she’s going through a bit of an identity crisis at the moment! I agree they have learnt so many transferable skills over the years just need to find that passion so they can use them! Thank you , very best of luck to your dd too have a lovely Easter xx

My daughter had exactly the same identity crisis. It took a while but you have to keep pointing in a forward direction. Regroup and list their skills and qualities  - try loads of different things. Be brave and look forward are the words we kept saying. They are so young and the world is ahead of them - loads of options if you open your mind to them. Ballet isn’t everything and for a very few it’s a career that satisfies and it’s fleeting. My daughter has found a new path at uni and now can see a career she feels will be fulfilling and she can succeed at. That’s all you want as a parent. Remain positive and keep going. !!! 

On 12/03/2021 at 18:03, cotes du rhone ! said:

Having had two Dc graduate from a U.K. vocational school I, like yourself, can only share our experiences and those of my DC’s friends. The dance employment/graduation destination has been on a decline for the past few years, as in the numbers securing paid, that you can live on, contracts. Churning out all these young dancers into a world where they realistically haven’t got a cat in hells chance of employment is wrong 😔 and these schools and their associated companies need to find solutions and start supporting them. 

When we started this journey in 2012 we were incredibly naive as to the future and in hindsight should not have let our children invest so much of themselves physically, psychologically and emotionally into such a career. Or us, as a family, financially. 

I wish I had met me 9 years ago 😂. Just a Mum, who still really doesn’t have a clue about ballet but has been on a hell of a journey. 

I wish I’d met you 9 years ago and listened to you and convinced my ballet mad daughter to listen !!!  Please listen objectively to everyone’s past shared experiences in Ballet World. 

But - on a positive note my daughter is now starting to interview for interns and grad programs in her new world and that “ballet world “ experience is a stand out and gets her noticed every time.  She’s combined that persistence and team work with a very good grade point average so stands a very good chance to be a success in her new chosen path. These kids are so determined and focused. A new direction with the equal application of those same skills will stand them in a great position going forward. As long as we keep telling them - you got to the the very top through hard work and determination. Just do it again. And again.  Positive thoughts. !!! 

1 hour ago, DD Driver said:

I already keep a close eye on the full time school that my DD attends.  I am paying private school fees and then pay for her academics on top.

This is the Australian system so it's unlike UK vocational schools.  Maybe doing this all on our money is helping us to 'keep it real' in terms of the dreams we may have.

My DD loves her ballet school but if I stop loving it then she will be getting her training elsewhere.

 

When I think about paying for my DD to be in a company... I fall off my chair.

Typically in such a situation, you would start having expectations and start voicing them.  Probably the relationship would end quickly.

It is very strange to have the kind of money to be a ballet student, where we are and probably in the US, and then allow yourself to be treated like dirt.  

I think research the conditions of contracts or pre professional year spots for young ballet dancers. I know from friends of my dd that a Dutch junior coy was very low pay in the initial year with parents having to support rent and living expenses. Also a Central European coy that one young dancer was given a full contract was so poorly paid  in the local currency that the dancer couldn’t afford to live without parents. The salary was so low. Also some coys don’t pay for holidays or outside the season. Only pay the dancers during the time they actually dance. The Aud Jebsen apprentice pay was £22k pa a couple of years ago - which was considered good money for a first year dancer. Ask around. Find out what your young dancer is likely to get and their future prospects. My daughter is at uni now headed to a career in finance. As you can imagine as parents we are relieved. I’m only speaking up to let people know the info I have managed to gain after her 5 years in a uk school and her friends experience after graduation the last 2.5 yrs 

Totally agree with the points made in this thread. I’ve been trying to raise these issues in uk and at the top uk school in particular for the last 2 .5 years  since my dd graduated. She experienced all the stuff mentioned. I saw students get quasi contracts in junior coys or extra training at schools. All requiring the continued support of parents. The training continuing offers and placements is a bit of a joke. If you’ve satisfied the 3 yr training requirements to graduate and receive your diploma - why would you need more training. Yet scan the Instagram at various european schools and there are kids still undergoing more training and clearly paying for the spot. It would appear that it’s more a place to keep on audition fitness whilst getting another AD to promote your audition tour. The issue of lack of performance skills is covered off at the RBS. From my dd experience they get loads of exposure - even up to regular spots in the Corp all the way through graduAte year if they like you enough and your competent. The RBS kids even get the BRB exposure and regularly lent out to that coy too. I continue to argue that there needs to be more of a plan and strategy for the kids being pushed through in this system. If jobs are scarce - which they are - reduce the intake and help those in the system.  I know my dd saw kids on the yearly audition tour that had been there from the year before and before that. The audition tour is a waste of money too. Thousands spent to travel and attend various auditions across Europe and USA with spies allocated already to a candidate in a private audition prior or no spots for girls but only said afterwards and various other excuses. The result being a shattered young student and thousands of parents money wasted. 

28 minutes ago, rowan said:

It’s just as bad abroad, I suspect. Where my DD is - European national company - there are complaints over the number of foreign dancers in the company, and over the fact that fewer and fewer young people from the national ballet school get into the company. They accept about one every two years in recent years.

I guess if you look at the pathways into top schools lately has been very focused on international competitions. Uk kids aren’t a majority in these comps - the pathway from white lodge has been volatile. Then when they audition into the uk ballet companies at graduate time - a large portion of the graduates are overseas passport holders - they’ve also been show cased through the last 2 years at the school and hence go in with an advantage. Plus having gold medals etc on your resume and scholarship winners. You look better on paper to even get the advantage of an audition and p.r to get you noticed.  If you come up through the uk rbs system you are discouraged from international competition and hence very reliant on the local system. If that system then focused on the overseas students where does that leave the uk kids. There is a problem with the funding model of the uk schools and the reliance on overseas students and attached scholarship money and donor sponsors. 

4 hours ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

I think it’s about time that the British ballet companies started increasing company contracts / apprenticeships and opportunities to support British training and it’s graduates. 
BRB last year auditioned Elmhurst graduate students at the school for its annual apprenticeship, that is not paid for by the company, and then chose sadly not to honour it because of Covid 😢 But still went on to use two post graduate students in its live streamed company Nutcracker performance. Lovely experience for them, again, but no opportunities came from it 😢 These graduates don’t need a visa to work here in the U.K. so why aren’t there more opportunities ? 

In my dd graduate year the uk opportunities primarily went to foreign passport holder students and visas were all required. I know in Australia the visas are very limited and company’s are very cautious in planning and allocation. The uk needs to think how many students are in each graduate year and actually plan how they are going to help them get  uk jobs first. I was quite shocked to see how many students are in graduate year when the situation has tightened considerably in recent years for graduate jobs. Surely if there is less demand for ballet dancers - train less and reduce the inflow of overseas candidates for a while until the situation improves. Just like any employment market in any part of the world if there is an over supply you adjust. Especially given the reliance on the uk tax payer for supporting this industry 

6 hours ago, Glissé said:

Totally agree my dd is keen to choose a different path after July however with no guidance from the school and others around her making audition videos etc she feels like a failure for not doing the same which is very sad 😔

The environment at upper school is focused on graduating to a company. As students audition around and fail to get a contract they start to feel the pressure and excluded from the other students who have gained a contract and are planning their lives and future. In my dd school the students who don’t gain a contract prior to graduation day are excluded from any published graduate lists and excluded from even The final year performance programme. There is no list that is public that states “graduates” even if they legally and officially are graduates and hold the diploma to prove it. Additionally the students who wish to change paths and chase another career aren’t listed either ( eg uni or college place). They are just wiped from history in the schools graduate records.  That’s not fair. They are made to feel less accomplished. 

1 hour ago, valentina said:

I totally agree with this. Whatever other issues occur, the health team at this particular establishment are proactive and top notch. From physio’s to nutritionist, they are right on it. 

The issues raised by this young lady are from her experience and perspective. She’s not alone and others have voiced similar experiences. The integrity of the health team and nutritionists is not under question. I’m sure they are acting at the highest level of expertise. That’s not the issue. It’s in this students experience she felt she was unsupported and clearly needed more help. It’s also raising the issue of mental health services and recognition of mental health in all messaging to students inside the school in all circumstances. We can all do more to help and support young students in these schools and ask that more is done. 

On 05/03/2021 at 02:37, cotes du rhone ! said:

 

Didn't know where to share this very brave young lady sharing her journey x

In my experience, the issues she raised about the operation of the school and how it impacts on the students and makes the students feel is true and she’s not the only one. My daughter was at this school at the same time. The young lady is clearly honest, articulate and brave. Healing starts with openly stating how you feel and moving forward. I wish her all the best. Now it requires the Board of the school to listen and act.  The ballet school industry needs to become more transparent and listen to the students and parents. If your not happy with how they treat your child/ young person now or in the past write to the school and complain. Then things can change. 

On 26/01/2021 at 18:47, Kate_N said:

 

Maybe ... but to think of the relationship between young person, school, and parents only as a commercial one, is to distort the essential pedagogical relationship between teachers and pupils. It instrumentalises results (and I have heard statements close to: "why didn't I get top marks, I'm paying for this"). 

 

There needs to be a balance between advocating for your child, and trusting that the teachers are experts who know their jobs. And the knowledge that your child may be different at school, in class, than at home in recreation & everyday life. I don't mean misbehaviour! Just that in the teen years, education is an important aspect of a young person developing their independence and sense of self outside the family - and this can be a difficult process for parents - letting go.

 

That doesn't mean condoning bullying, but that there is a balance needed, and acting principally on the basis as a 'customer' can interfere with the delicate processes of education, especially in the creative & performing arts, where the highest levels of excellence are aimed for, and, sadly, disappointment is almost always inevitable - even for the most accomplished! 

That simplified my message. It’s about respect and access and protection for your child. Support and advocating for you child when their voice is ignored.  It’s equality of access and respect by the schools for the parents in this process. Simplification of the issue to an expected mark is not my point. Mental health and child protection is my point. Issues of teachers / professionals require oversight as well. - hence the need for school inspection etc. 

2 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

Unfortunately those institutions running degree courses, even if they accept pupils from age 16, often refuse to communicate with parents saying that they only speak to the students as they are on a degree course.

Surely if these schools had the best interests of the dancers involved they would want a co-op between the dancer and their support network (parents)   These young people are often quite sheltered being focused on their ballet. Their families are very supportive and want to help. Not hinder. The schools have a barrier up. They generally don’t make you feel welcome. Once a term for watching day and only a meeting with the teacher for 5 quick minutes in a room full of other parents. Not ideal for a personal discussions. In my experience a meeting with the AD is confrontational and not helpful for your kid. They are thd hostage and you watch what you say. 

Just because they are private schools or they offer a degree course shouldn’t let them slip through responsibility. In my experience they made us as parents sign responsibility for our daughters fees and her behaviour etc. If you tie me in legally I’ll not be silenced and will expect open communication. These schools are quick to drag in.parents if there is a behavioural issue but don’t want to speak to you as a parent when you are enquiring about their responsibility towards you and the student. They can’t have it both ways. The sponsors of other students and board members saw my child dance in class more than I ever did as a parent. They also got more feedback and discussions about the students than I ever did. That’s not fair or right. If the door is shut - make it fair for all people involved. But - that access to the kids is money for these prestigious schools. Parents need to speak up and make the schools involve them as it should be. Imagine going to a normal school with 16 year olds and be told that the parents would get no feedback or discussion about a student. There would be a walk out. Change needs to happen. Write to the board of governors or the owners of the schools. Put them on notice - speak up. Watch them get nervous !! 

I completely agree with Anna C. Parents should always speak up and question what is happening to their child / young person. The constant it’s “ballet world” and “ your not from the ballet industry” so don’t understand - are not acceptable as responses from ballet staff / directors when parents question the situation in the schools. These institutions are schools. They are governed by child protection laws. As a parent you have the right to speak up. You should be treated with the same courtesy as the influential donors and the sponsors and the Prix de Lausanne organisation/ yagp etc. We struggled to protect our young person in a major school - constantly raised child protection and mental health issues. We sought to have things changed - for her and for the other kids.  Our child spoke up for herself and others and felt the blowback from staff. Ballet is beautiful but the school / training system is ugly and needs a thorough investigation and light brought into the old systems and the structures around it. Tradition is well and good but modernisation is needed for the protection and equality of children. Especially mental health. It’s odd that you don’t hear this sought of stuff from company members. It’s the schools that need to change. Parents and ex students that need to speak up and tell the real truth. You are paying - you are the customer. You need to advocate for your child - the other “connected/ industry” parents / teachers are advocating for their favoured student. The treatment these favoured / connected kids receive is better than what your child is getting. The students know what is happening. I know my child kept a lot quiet but spoke up when she left the industry. Even now 3 years later she is finally speaking very openly and sees how wrong the treatment was. As a parent I feel terrible - but I know we tried to help her and fought legally for 2.5 years. Parents speak up - there are people and institutions/ company’s that want to hear you and will help. I’m so over hearing the constant story about young people hurt in this school/ training system. 

10 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

I have often wondered how come the whole ‘level up’ debate has not seen Elnhurst rebranded as Birmingham Royal Ballet School & Be the chief associated School with BRB - I think it is long overdue! Suspect issues around name change due to the legacy funding/covenants etc when established as Elmhurst but surely powers that be wouid very happily incorporate that golden ticket ‘Royal’ into any name & see it as providing huge extra kudos & benefits! This wouid go some way to level up, thumbs up to the old North/South Divide & actually make a more level chance playing field. I also think it wouid do RBS no harm at all to feel they have to prime their students first & foremost for placements with RB. Afterall, that’s the point of an affiliation surely? To train for entering linked companies....so wish that were more true....& so wish more who have done main training within UK (& dare I say, who are U.K. residents??) got more opportunities & jobs. It’s so troubling to see how very often it’s an international competition winner gifted entry into third year RBS who then gets the RB/BRB contract.... does nothing to boost our own dancers or training establishments. 

There are so many parents that have voiced exactly these issues. Especially those that have come through White Lodge. Makes the purpose of White Lodge under question and it’s government funding etc. 

On 21/11/2020 at 07:52, Jan McNulty said:

 

 

Which is not entirely accurate.  Of the current roster the following dancers have Elmhurst on their bio (around 10% of the current company):

 

Rosanna Ely

Ryan Felix

Miles Gilliver

Emma Price

Hamish Scott

Joseph Taylor

 

Other dancers, now left, also came through Elmhurst including James Barton and Nathanael Skelton who were the first 2 accepted into the company after the relationship with the school was announced.

 

If you look at the bios throughout the company the dancers come from very diverse backgrounds and different schools.

I appreciate the point you make about the diversity of the company - however my point was the results of Elmhurst as evident in their placement of students in their own associated company BRB. And in particular I was pointing to the last 4 years or so as documented in the graduation destination announcements. It’s clear that in current history the numbers are pointing towards RBS grad intake. I appreciate that other dancers join the Company throughout the levels and from other places.  But my issue was the Elmhurst students as graduates getting full contracts at BRB as compared to the total number of RBS kids getting full contracts at grad. Also it’s worth pointing out that the apprentice contracts have been allocated to Elmhurst kids.  I can only speak to what my experience has been via my daughters years at RBS and looking at the documented press releases over those years comparing the two schools. I acknowledge that companies are full of various dancers from many schools. That wasn’t my point in this post.  

4 hours ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

I feel the choice of US is mainly influenced by the destination/success of its graduates and/or the academic back up plan/plan B. If plan A career doesn’t work out, and let’s face it the current employment situation is dire, what have you to fall back on ? Even Elmhurst’s 2 A levels make access to higher education difficult. 
There is an awful lot to consider in year 11 😞

Totally agree - it has also been the case that the Elmhurst students don’t get into the BRB at graduation- even though supposedly attached to the company via the school. The RBS kids get the opportunities. Also the A levels as a back up plan - much needed in this current climate and probably the future as well - are not enough for uni and especially more popular degrees in business and tech. My daughter had to go and do a transition diploma to boost her 2 A levels from RBS grad as a B-Tech not considered acceptable in Australia. Cost her another year of student academic fees and slowed her down getting her degree. So I think students need to get all the information about the ballet course and employment path and their plan B going into  any school. Don’t believe all they tell you and don’t believe the advertising. It’s good that Elmhurst are trying to operate a school with diversity etc. But to be frank that’s what’s required at any institution around the world  A normal school wouldn’t be praised for saying they are operating an institution within the acceptable social norms. 

7 minutes ago, Farawaydancer said:

I don’t know about the RAD, but I know for certain that there are teachers who tutor students at their own schools (not their own students) in academics, and whether it is prohibited or not is up to the schools management to decide. I also know the judging ‘conflicts of interest’ happens at dance competitions.  My point isn’t that any of this is right, it’s more the assumption that this is all news to anyone. Neither of my dc are under any illusion that the ‘best’ dancer always gets the role or the contract. It’s not hidden at all and therefore hardly needs ‘bringing into the light’. It’s just how it is in lots and lots of careers. 

It does need to be transparent. It’s not right. And just because that’s the tradition - and people accept it and work the system - doesn’t make it acceptable. Nor should it continue and not should people be paying into a corrupt system and the government shouldn’t be funding it either. Time for change is here and transparency will make it happen.  

7 hours ago, Farawaydancer said:

But education of any sort isn’t a level playing field. In any school there are kids being tutored, sometimes by staff who work at the school. Neither is entry to any career a level playing field. In many it’s all about who you know. All you can be concerned about is what you and your family do; leave everyone else to make their own decisions about what they’re prepared to accept, in the ballet world or any other. 

Firstly even the RAD prohibits a teacher assessing their own students as blatant conflict of interest. All schools in academic schools prohibit staff coaching for cash their own students. Even at ballet comps there would be outrage if a competitor was a student of the judge. The point is not you taking advantage of a bias system where others can’t. It’s the system that needs to be recognised as biased and able to be distorted- by money - needs to changed. It’s ok to practice hard and get your kid every facility you can - they can be the best possible dancer. But the “who you know “ Aspect distorts the level playing field and destroys the students belief in working hard and striving for improvement- which they are told constantly at these top schools - that it’s their fault they don’t get the role or a job etc - not that another student has a “who you know “ contact to get ahead or be showcased. The system needs to be brought into the light for all to see !