Kate_N

I'd be looking very closely at Laban. It has an excellent reputation & the training makes graduates very versatile.

Yes. It's a view that's out of fashion, but there are ways to re-enter formal education at any age.

Have a look at university halls of residence in the central London area. You can do this on the "University Rooms" website. It's usually around £36 to £45 per night, bed and breakfast, with a shared bathroom. Some halls have kitchenettes where you can prepare a simple evening meal. Not luxurious, but absolutely fine for students. Safe and clean and central.

I think that's very wise - the idea of an extended time scale. The body won't wait, but the brain is learning & developing all the time.

It's difficult to give this sort of advice as each person is different. Some things to think about - First, have you been made offers from any of them? If so, will you meet that offer in terms of BTEC or A Level? When you went for audition, how did the campus/facilities feel? Did you find the area to be one you could spend 3 years in? Was there accommodation offered? How was this? Do you want to live in that city for 3 years? Where are alumni now? What jobs are they doing? What parts of the curriculum helped in employability? But I see from other posts that you - or rather your DD - is just at auditioning stage. To be frank, I think that it's a matter of auditioning at a number of places. Your DD will be very very lucky if she has a choice. Most of the conservatoires you mention are very selective - they can have their pick of hundreds of applicants for maybe 25 or so places. Laban is (I think) the largest of the conservatoires you mention, and they offer teacher training tracks, as well as training as a professional dancer. Most institutions will be selecting the dancer, rather than the dancer choosing which place to attend. So maybe for now - depending on the level of high school of your DD, you should attend a few Open Days, to get a feel for each place. There may be taster sessions, classes etc - your DD can see how she measures up.

Bellatrix, I echo everyone else's comments about going for it - as much GOOD ballet training that you can find. And I think that you have to take away the "Will she have a career?" question. Who knows? There is no certainty there at all. But there is a certainty about NOT having a career - and that is not pursuing as much high quality training as possible. But I have to say that if she wants to work in musical theatre, not singing is not a choice. My mother trained at Tring as a ballet student, and when she left worked in theatre - but she's not a singer so very quickly moved from commercial musical theatre to the straight theatre, ad worked as an actress. But her solid dance training has always been a foundation of her work as a performer - until she was 80 she worked as an actor-trainer, in physical work for actors. Even if your daughter doesn't go on to have a career as a dancer, learning ballet is a wonderful education. It gives you discipline, the satisfaction of working slowly & steadily towards a very high & difficult goal. I've danced on and off since I was about 12, and in my years as an adult dancer, the one thing I keep hearing is "I wish I'd started ballet as a child." A lot of parents see ballet as a far less desirable hobby than netball or football. I have no idea why ... If she loves ballet, follow that passion.

I was going to say, Walk! My grandparents had a house on Richmond Hill, and so the Park was our extended garden when we stayed. It's a safe area, and an easy walk to WL - even easier from the bus stop on the bus from Richmond Tube station (from memory ...)

I'm not a ballet teacher at the RBS with years of teaching and probably a leading ballet career behind me, so I couldn't possibly judge how the RBS selects students for its Summer Schools. I think Mnemo is spot on with the maths - there are more than 4 times the number of applicants for available places. Elite ballet training is a tough world.

This is seems a bit like sour grapes, which I'm sure you don't intend it to. But it's disrespectful towards the years of skill & experience required. If you think so little of the staff who select by "just glancing" at a photograph, why would you want to send your child there? I'm sure that's not what you really think ... (well, I hope not!)

But the point is that it's in NO WAY a lottery. There is immense skill & knowledge required to select the groups of students so that, as others have said, the classes are of children with the requisite ability. Do you not want people who've worked all their lives in a pretty underpaid profession to be paid properly? Would your thoughts might e different if your child had received an acceptance? Would THAT be a lottery? I doubt it - it would be a recognition of their level of ability for the summer school. After all, no-one is forcing you to send in an application ... Let's stop down grading the real skills, knowledge, and qualifications of arts and teaching professionals!

There's a lot of good advice about non-conservatoire courses - not so much specific content, but what you might expect from them - on another thread which you'll find if you click on the "university" tag. The thing to remember is that degree courses in Dance outside of the conservatoires are not second-best conservatoires, and if you go into one of the courses thinking like that, you'll be frustrated. And people like me who teach you, will also be frustrated with you! Degree courses at places like Plymouth, De Montfort, Surrey, Roehampton offer arts degrees with a full range of critical and contextual studies. The qualification is broader than the degree courses in conservatoires, and equips you to do things that degree courses in conservatoires don't focus so much on. And vice versa. Neither kind of course is better or worse. It is still possible to have a career in dance with a degree from, say Roehampton, but it might be a different kind of career from that which you'd have with a degree from London Contemporary at The Place. But I would still recommend (as I did on the other thread) if the desire & dream is to dance at the standard of a conservatoire course, but you're not at that standard to get into conservatoires straight out of post-16 education, there is little to be lost in taking a gap year which you set up as an intensive training year. Part-time work, plus daily classes, or even two daily classes. Then audition again! This would actually model what life is likely to be like in the immediate post-graduation years.

Well, the next couple of Sundays, anyway ... Today, off to a 4 hour workshop at my local studio in contemporary - with James Wilton Dance, who are currently on tour. And, so the studio owner tells me, we are being taught by James Wilton himself! The company is performing here tomorrow night. http://www.jameswiltondance.org.uk/leviathan Sadly, the idea of dance workshops is still new here in the deep West Country, and so I think there are only 3 or 4 of us attending. Probably not what Mr Wilton expects! I'm a bit nervous about that, but I'm looking forward to learning something about how such an acrobatic style is built up from the basics. And then next Sunday I'm really looking forward to the ENB workshop based on the current ENB repertoire of Forsythe, Bausch & Van Maanen. I've seen live performances by all the original companies (and taught about Bausch as part of a large survey course of 20th century avant garde), and am again looking forward to learning about the fundamentals of how their choreographies are built. I think there are some posters from here going to next week's ENB workshop? We should say "Hello" with a secret handshake <grin>.

Is this a bit like an Alfredson's heel drop? I find those really effective.

Should have added, that I"m sure the 15 on each leg is correct - I realise that my post sounded as though it was questioning you! They showed the gap between barre & centre, and instead of stretching (which actually weakens the muscles) the dancers all did rises in parallel facing the barre.

Yes DrDance, in the broadcast of the AB company class in the World Ballet Day live broadcasts, they interviewed David McAllister about the leg rises. They do the sets facing the barre, in parallel, I think. I thought it was 3 sets of 10 rises on both feet, but 15 rises on each feet sounds much much tougher!

Most non-university dance courses will incur fees, for which there are no loans. So you might want to think carefully about leaving your current course. Questions for yourself such as your aims & goals, and what is realistic for you to accomplish. It's complex, I should think! You might have a look at what the Jasmin Vardimon Company offers in training at the 16+ level, and their PG Cert - although you need a BA (Hons) or equivalent to enter that.

This is a really interesting discussion. Thanks everyone! And I particularly enjoy PetalViolet and Proballetdancer as a comedy duo! And also Proballetdancer's professional point of view. I think it's tricky sometimes, on messageboards where we keep a modicum of anonymity, to back up one's opinions by citing one's professional expertise & experience. I could be anyone on the internet, pretending to be a performing arts university teacher! I know who I am, but I can't include my CV with each post, so there's no reason for anyone else to accept my point of view. And I know that when I speak from my professional expertise (which is not ballet, although I'm an informed amateur there) I'm convinced that my view is pretty much correct, and comes from solid expertise and experience. But I also understand that on an internet messageboard, no-one else necessarily has to accept that! (Oh dear, I hope this makes sense?)

You've all just made me snort my morning coffee all over my laptop keyboard! Oh, if only the organisers and adjudicators knew what the "proud parents" in the audience are really thinking

Better for whom, and for what? A lot of children go through the "ballerina" stage but, as other posters have said, learn as they grow up, that there is a very wide world of dance, performance & theatre out there. If the education at a vocational school is good, what has she lost? A good education PLUS an excellent dance training? That sounds to me like a very good start for whatever she might do in life.

I was taught that turn out is an action, not a position. And flexibility & turn out are only useful so far as you can use them. So you could be naturally very flexible, but not able to fire up the right muscles, so the flexibility isn't used.

This thread is hilarious! Here's Isadora herself (sort of): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdHiFMYUzkw

Absolutely agree with this, and with the comment that exam & competition marks rarely have an impact on a career. Sometimes, even the reverse, as the "eyes and teeth" mode of some competition dancing (doing tricks etc) is actually very detrimental to quality proper training. In ballet at least. Although I could say A LOT about the absolutely clear & professional practices of examining or evaluating creative work. I do it at university level all the time. We have clear criteria and years of professional experience. Our students always moan about "subjective" marking, but it's really not. However, we also say to them that they should not obsess about the difference in marks between individual markers when the differences are a few points (eg 81 or 87). Such differences are really not material. And the same kinds of differences are noted across any kind of marking or evaluation in most (if not all) subjects. There are very few human endeavours at a high level in which we're either right or wrong.

Loving these stories! My mother was a different sort of not-a-ballet-mother as she'd trained full-time herself and earned her living as a dancer & then actor from the age of about 17 or so. So we got serious critiques, and a reluctance for us to do any shows or competitions as they were so amateurish (she's right, they were). And she NEVER hung around the studio or theatre, because the competitive but ignorant parents just wound her up. But she watched our performances intently and always had constructive & useful feedback. I learned from her that you were late unless you were there half an hour early to warm up!

Do it because you enjoy it! That is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING about ballet as an activity (as opposed to a profession). It doesn't matter what grade, when you went on pointe, how high your leg is. If you enjoy it, and do it for that moment-by-moment pleasure of dancing. And for you, in recovery from a serious illness, that is even MORE important. Just enjoy yourself. But, starting back after a break of a few years there are some physical things to be aware of: for the first few weeks, stay well within your physical limits. Use this as a way of really cementing in your alignment & turn out - see it as a chance almost to start again. I found that coming back after a break I wanted to keep legs low etc, so that I could really work with my turn out & keeping the pelvis neutral etc etc - if you go for the high legs or multiple turns etc at this point you lose a wonderful opportunity to work low and very very clean in your technique. Try to do some sort of conditioning either a couple of days before or - more importantly - a couple of days after your first class back. I always find it's not the day after, but the day after that, when my legs hurt the most! A long walk, yoga, or Pilates, or a swim would be good. Welcome to the adult ballet world - it's a very welcoming and non-competitive one. The world of the true amateur - that is, we do it for love (amas) and sheer pleasure.

Oh no! I knew Giannandrea through our mutual colleagues, and work together. He was generous, kind and an excellent scholar. What a loss. Oh I'm so shocked.