drdance

@Doing Dance 1 You can but try!

@Aurora3 Strangely enough I don't know that saying. I actually believe that science does fit your body, but it perhaps doesn't fit your mind. The mind is a powerful thing. 

Science is very rarely wrong, actually, because of the rigorous procedures most scientists have to go through before publishing any findings. Things are checked multiple times, by multiple scientists, and the majority of scientists uphold a code of ethics and take this very seriously. And yes I am a dance scientist. I have published work in peer-reviewed journals and have worked with major ballet companies.

I appreciate that you believe that the entire dance science knowledge base is not for you, and I respect your decision. I do hope you don't get injured and that you never require the services of a dance medicine or science specialist because as you say, science doesn't fit your body, so they'll be unlikely to help you. I wish you the very best.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1089313X241232446

I would hazard a guess at 'functional analysis of the body during dance' - ie anatomy and physiology of the dancer?

On 25/01/2024 at 07:16, Beezie said:

 

On the converse side, I keep in the back of my mind that less flexibility tends to pair with more strength.  It may not be appreciated in auditions at Y7, but ballet is also a bit of a long game. And strength will let a dancer perform longer into a career without injury.  I would also say that some level of flexibility can be ‘dialed up’ at any age.  I

Just a note to say that flexibility and strength are not necessarily related in this way. Don't be confused with joint mobility versus muscular flexibility and muscular strength.  Dancers with high natural levels of joint mobility may find it harder to control - so appear less strong, but often, individual muscles or muscle groups are strong. Conversely, weak muscles can feel tight too, so strengthening muscles often causes them to feel more flexible. 

With childrens' 1st postition I usually go up a size and a half when fitting my pupils.

2 tickets for BRB Black Sabbath tomorrow at 1pm

Seats Q37-38 in the circle. 
Cost £119 for both.

Happy to take offers

On 07/08/2023 at 17:32, Anna C said:

Would you for Grade 3 though, drdance?  I probably would for a Vocational exam, say Intermediate/Adv 1/Adv 2, or for a fail/scraped pass by a student expected to get a Merit or Distinction, but personally, I wouldn’t for a high Merit at Grade 3.  

No I wouldn't personally do that for high merit at Grade 3. I'd simply chalk it up to one set of results and move on. But the system is there and I'm not sure people know about it, and if the OP or her DD wants more information then they can do so. 

My students have dropped marks over recent sessions and I'm now finding out that other local schools have had similar experiences. It seems as though even with childrens exams that 9's and 10's really are for perfection (impossible in my opinion) and Good to excellent children are lucky to get 8's for anything. And that's for live exams. Add into the mix the video element and marks seem to drop even more. I'm really disheartened by it at the moment. I still prefer the RAD syllabus to teach (over other exam boards) but the others seem to be much more generous in their marks which is very hard as a teacher, when parents naturally compare school to school either on social media or at the school gates etc. Many schools near me do BBO or IDTA and frequently announce marks above 90 on social media! 

Please reassure your DD that it is happening everywhere, and try and see it as a challenge to work towards improving for next time. You could always pay for a full detailed report from RAD, I did this once and it was very informative.

I'm always wary of these 'special programmes' run by ordinary dance schools. Essentially they are a way to 'poach' the best children from other dance schools because what happens is, like you've already considered, 'would it not be better to move her to the school where this strengthened ballet programme is?!'. I think that at age 9, two ballet lessons a week with a good teacher is plenty. I'd only add to this if the teacher or programme was something like Royal Ballet School or Elmhurst, where the curriculum and classes are age appropriate and work with your DD's current teacher. 

My pupils do back to back classes without any problems although this is on Saturdays and the classes are of different dance styles.

Eeeeek! Is my first thought!

Hyperextension in the knees is not really something you should be prioritising. Pushing into it in an oversplit position and pushing down is especially risky as you can overstretch the ligaments in your knee, put pressure on the kneecap and cause instability in the joint putting it at risk of injury in the future. 

It sounds like you need to prioritise strengthening your knees and in particular, the VMO muscle. (vastus medialis). There are lots of things online that help with this.

The university dance scene has really exploded in the last few years - lots of unis now have dance societies and it can be very competitive. Something to consider in the hunt for that 'middle ground'!

13 hours ago, Aurora3 said:

Yes, I have heard of the warm up research, but for me personally, I have found out that this kind of warm up is not good for ballet class... I really prefer PBT or floor barre, than all the muscles are ready for class! 

The warm up I describe is the recommended warm up to prevent injury and to fully prepare the joints and muscles to be loaded and stretched for dance-specific movements. Lying down or non-weightbearing might feel lovely, but physiologically it does very little other than feeling like ballet. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but it shouldn't be the only thing done. It should only be 5-10 minutes and it should be done AFTER the body is properly warmed up.

20+ hours a week sounds like an awful lot in my opinion. Is this all ballet? How old is your DC? (Feel free to PM me if needed). 
 

Stretching isn’t the only way to improve flexibility and joint mobility. Within the realm of “stretching” there are lots of different approaches; passive vs active, dynamic vs static, end-range focus, ballistic, PNF, dance-specific, etc etc. 

As others have suggested, it’s better to get an individualised programme. During the adolescent growth spurt flexibility decreases anyway so that’s a consideration, plus there’s the whole stress and tension element too - psychological or physiological stress can cause neural tension leading to what looks like poor flexibility. Once the person relaxes or the source of tension is removed, the movement becomes freer and flexibility appears improved. Lisa Howell has written / produced a fair bit of content on neural tension. 

20 hours ago, Aurora3 said:

Yes, I agree, it is not a "cross training", but a conditioning for ballet! But I like it a lot because it helps me to understand movement patterns that you need in ballet class and it is also a great warm-up for ballet! I think, ballet is not comparable to many sports because it requires very refined coordination more than mere strength, so you can´t apply principles that works for "most sports" to ballet!

The backalast, however, I think, nobody needs. If you need a "reminder" for posture, you can easily make that yourself with tape - much cheaper...!

Several point(e)s here!

• The goal of a warm up (if done properly) is to get all major joints lubricated, to increase heart rate, breathing rate and to start progressively loading the joints. I don't think that PBT (which is often slow, controlled and with all or part of the body supported by the floor or a ball) actually achieves this. 
• I would actually argue that most sports require refined co-ordination as much as strength. Ask a footballer / tennis player / high jumper / golfer / badminton player etc etc about accuracy, skill/technical drills and they'll tell you the same thing.
• The physiological demands (intensity, aerobic/anaerobic demands, accuracy and speed of skill etc) of a ballet performance are very similar to that of a football (soccer) match. The only difference is that dancers have to make it look artistic too. Happy to discuss this in more length - I wrote much of the original research on the topic...

Hi, great discussion!

I know some ballet teachers who are massive fans of PBT and if it's used for the right purpose then it' great. PBT stands for Progressing Ballet Technique and it is exactly that. It is essentially another 'pilates' type form of exercise, working on strengthening and training the muscles required to do ballet correctly. It is completely dance specific. It is very good for developing ballet technique and helping students/dancers to work the muscles required for ballet technique (ie the 'right muscles').

What it ISN'T is cross-training. It will not prevent imbalances (some might argue it could lead to them if its the only form of additional training), it does not help develop aerobic capacity nor does it help strengthen against impact forces (landings etc) which are known to be predictors of injury.

As with any form of training, I think it's always important to ask what the outcome goal is first, and then to choose a training method to meet that goal. No-one should be 'doing conditioning' to 'do conditioning'. While it's wonderful that people see the need for supplementary training, I still see a lot of people (mostly on social media though) doing various forms of 'conditioning' without really knowing or having thought about the ultimate goal.

Something else to bear in mind when choosing conditioning - and it kind of ties in with the last paragraph - a dancers timetable is usually pretty busy. Therefore choosing what to spend time on is really important. It's no use just adding in more and more classes/exercise forms because the dancers body needs rest and nutrition in order to build the strength in response to the training. So is it really worth adding in another ballet specific class such as pilates or PBT when a dancer is already doing 5 ballet classes a week? If ballet technique needs focus then maybe substitute (shock horror!) one of those classes for PBT so that the overall training load isn't increased. 

If you look at sports teams or individual athletes and how they train, only a part of their time is given to sport-specific drills, or working on technique or playing the actual game. The rest is spent on overall strength and fitness development. So why do dancers spend so much more of their time (proportionally) on technique? 

Thank you! That's really helpful. Yes I hate all the misery - it's a lot harder for older students especially to portray funny / happy / quirky characters but when done well its excellent to see.

Hi everyone! After many many years out, some of my pupils (or parents!) have expressed an interest in festivals and I'm stuck for ideas for little ones in terms of duets and trios. Give me a solo and I'm good, but I'm drawing a blank when it comes to what to do for duets/trios. What's considered old fashioned? What are over-popular choices? What is appropriate?

Many thanks!

1 hour ago, LinMM said:

These courses do require you to actually work with children in an actual classroom at some point I hope though ….as part of the qualification. 
I still think online teaching is also a particular skill so shouldn’t this be examined separately to gain a teaching qualification? Especially from an organisation like RAD. 
If online teaching only is going to start being more common then this needs to be examined more thoroughly. 
Some teachers are very good online but others not so especially if not just teaching one to one. 

Yes they do. I don't think the OP wants to teach online only. The request was for teaching courses with an online / distance learning element. Interestingly, I don't know of any courses which specifically train teachers for online teaching/delivery!

Hi!

Most of the intitial dance teacher qualifications are now blended, so they have some online/distance learning elements and some in person.

The RAD certificate of ballet teaching studies (RAD CBTS) is an example of this. The distance learning elements require you to have a mentor who supports you through the course. Upon qualification you are able to enter pupils for RAD examinations and awards. The ISTD minimum qual is the DDE and this needs to be done via a teacher training college but some offer blended courses. Contact the various colleges (also known as Approved Dance Centres) for the course info as they all structure their courses slightly differently. The IDTA is a bit different but in my opinion, not as rigorous, because you can be 'qualified' to enter pupils for IDTA exams in any style with a basic teaching qualification in one style (please correct me if I'm wrong). The IDTA allowed me to be a teaching member due to my qualifications with RAD and ISTD though. The BBO offers various teaching qualifications too, and they are pretty actively advertising on social media so a quick look at their Facebook page would give you a headstart.

Important note that if you want to teach/enter pupils for RAD ballet, you need an RAD qualification. Same for ISTD.

16 hours ago, Peony said:

 isn’t this just anorexia by another name? Over exercising is a symptom. I think the ‘migratory theory’  for eating disorders is interesting, lots of talk

of negative energy balance (from exercise, illness, not just dieting) being a trigger in those genetically prone

Anorexia Nervosa is a clinical condition that can result in RED-S. In laymans terms, anorexia means not eating enough.

RED-S is a physical condition that can be caused by anorexia nervosa, but can also be caused by unintentional lack of nutrition (so not consciously restricting), too much activity or inadequate rest. 

Definitely wait if you are unsure. Most of the major vocational schools don't begin pointe until midway through year 7, and that is after daily ballet classes including pre-pointe strengthening work. If you are unclear about the associate teachers comments then perhaps speak to them to clarify what was said - it might be that it was a blanket statement to a whole group of girls grouped by a school year and as others have said, there's a lot of difference between a September birthday and a July birthday! (not to mention number of hours training, individual strength levels, maturity etc).

I've read this thread with interest! I'd like to bring it back to the initial questions that came up, if I may, which seems to be "is it better to have intense training [hot housed] before age 14 or not?"

My thoughts around this lead me to another question, one that I have asked before. That is "what does success look like?" Is success a place at an upper school? Is success a job in a ballet company? Is success a long career dancing? Is success a life-long love of dance?

I think we have to look at the answer to this question, before we can answer the initial question. Having read / studied / researched a lot, it is my educated opinion that children who are currently dancing at an advanced or professional level before the end of adolescence are unlikely to have long dance careers. There may be the odd anomaly here or there, but I don't believe it is possible for the human body and mind to cope with that intensive amount of wear and tear without consequence. But it might be what is required in order to compete for places at upper schools or get employment. It is a dilemma for some parents, while other parents will not be so concerned with something that feels a long way into the future.

The debate will rage on, but I think that what is important to remember, is your ultimate goal or wishes for your child.

4 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

My DD also said that one of the downsides of this rigid exam syllabus only way of teaching was that every time pupils moved up the whole class would be held up with them having the set choreography taught to them. This doesn’t happen in free classes as everyone is in the same boat, being challenged to learn new routines. This also makes them much better prepared for auditions, as they are used to learning quickly. 

I agree. I don't necessarily like this route but I don't know what the alternative is to be honest. I can't afford the RBS system and the majority of the parents of children in my dance school are fairly exam focused. They ask for children to do exams (sometimes way before the kids are ready!). It would be lovely if there was a system that was around the same cost to the teacher as the RAD/ISTD/IDTA etc that wasn't so prescriptive. 

2 hours ago, LaCamargo said:

Prior to the meeting I would have liked to have thought that all dance teachers have a more holistic approach to teaching and do not just teach syllabus. It became clear from some of the questions that some must only do syllabus without enriching and broadening the dance education and experience of their pupils. I was most surprised when one of the questions was along the lines of what do you teach if there is not a syllabus and set exercises. An examination syllabus is an examination syllabus not necessarily a training syllabus.

I agree - in my RAD teacher training it was always stressed to us that the examination syllabus was just that, and in order to teach well-rounded dancers, much more was expected. We were trained to create lesson plans of free work building up to the exam work, which is what I still do. Perhaps not all exam boards train their teachers that way? Or perhaps teachers have forgotten this? or don't have time for this? Or have gotten lazy? I don't know and I wouldn't wish to judge. 

@Blue Box BalletI'm fully supportive of forward-thinking teaching, and training of children and I'm happy that it's getting that message out there, believe me! But I am purely thinking of the 'average' dance school where children do one class a week, maybe two (if you're lucky and have dedicated parents and students). Logistically it's tricky. I don't think that it's appropriate for most children under 10-11 to do a class that is an hour long, especially after a long day at school. 

Furthermore - it may well be that RBS are "following the research in child development, dangers of early specialisation" but this doesn't seem to fully align with what happens at the actual school, especially upper school, where students are taken in aged 15 or younger who have clearly specialised at a young age. 

I'm still in two minds about the programme, to be honest. I'd be interested to hear what other teachers are thinking!