meadowblythe

Effectively it does! As far as I am aware (happy to be corrected), in most countries the majority of the dancers are nationals, with overseas dancers being the exception. My experience is mainly of Eastern Europe/Far East but certainly the paperwork needed to get a visa is eye watering. And as @Peanut68 has stated, it's hard to argue that ballet dancers are a shortage profession here.

When my DS was at Hammond the number of MDS's changes from year to year depending on how many have been released by departing Y11 and other students. I suspect that remains the case. Also, DS was offered an MDS in year 7 which he declined. When the school of his choice and he mutually decided to part ways at the end of year 9 (Ok he was assessed out) he was fortunate to be offered an MDS from Hammond. Another school said they had a policy of only offering them once. At the same time students joined in years 8 and 9 and at least one got an MDS. They may have been an unusual year, and it wa a scarily long time ago but I suspect the bottom line remains; it's who they want.

Any new chapter is an opportunity ,, literally a blank page. Ballet will still be the centre of your life, just using the skills in a different way. Reading your description of the surgeon having to describe what he is doing at every stage read like a description of one of your ballet classes! The discipline, the courage to face new challenges, the ability to emote - these will see you, and Adrian, through the next stage. As @DVDfan so beautifully put it - Bon courage Michelle

Hi Michelle Suddenly realised how long it was since this thread was updated. I hope life is peaceful for you

Posed a hinderance for my son - but he is an exception. He didn't get on with JA teacher who remarked, after the audition when he apparently stunned them all, that had she known when she wrote her report what he was capable of she would have made a different recommendation. He was also identified as hyper mobile and whisked off to physio on arrival. No doubt the flexibility (he wasn't hyper mobile) would have been picked up anyway but I honestly believe had he been seen fresh rather than as a known quantity a different opinion might have been formed. Given the Jas presumably have the look RBS want, it's not surprising many of them are offered places. But certainly DS had friends who weren't Jas who were offered places at WL. Equally, not being at WL has not prevented my DS from gaining professional contracts.

How old is your daughter? I think accepting a foundation year if she is 16 is a different prospect to if she was 18. And particualy for contemporary - I can't see it as a problem, more as a vote of confidence in her ability. My DS was just 16 when he started his ballet degree - I think he would have benefitted tremendously from a fourth year, both in terms of emotional and physical maturity at the end of his course. As for which to go for .. gut is important accommodation? travel costs? location of school (central london vs Greenwich, very different vibes) Being with other performers - Trinity is part of a mixed artistic community vs purely dancers Supporting facilities for wider studies Also bear in mind the musicians at Trinity are, I believe, automatically on a four year course so a four year dance course won't be seen as unusual. Good luck! Meadowblythe

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I would also push back on your school - they are the ones with the contacts, and the ones who want to shout your DS's success on their website. 3 months into what would once have been a simple process, I would also get all the paperwork ready for acros/work permits/passports etc, and locate the experts you might need.

Doors have closed with the exit from EU; many companies can only take a limited number of overseas dancers, and getting a visa is not cheap or easy for the dancer or the company. Documents need translating, our education system doesn't produce a high school certificate, full Accro needed etc etc .. From the dancer's point of view "cheap" is a relative term - salaries may allow for a reasonable standard of living, but a ticket home can be more than a months rent and out of their reach. Can I also suggest some dancers choose to work abroad rather than not being able to get a UK position? The whole experience of living in a foreign country can be part of the attraction.

Agree - I sometimes think my DS was at school too long ago for me to make sensible contributions - but you and I are, I hope, able to offer a different perspective from "the other side." DS and I always agreed that if he was still dancing professionally at 25 he would have beaten the system, having spent as many years dancing as he did training. Proud to say at 26 he is still as in love with ballet as ever, and we've been on an almighty journey across strange parts of Europe and beyond. I've loved hearing your daughter's journey, and it sounds as if it is far from over. Keep the account open! Meadowblythe

I honestly don't think there is a "right" or, and I hesitate to use the word, "safe" path here. Example: my DS's run in as a 9 year old with a teacher at JAs came back to haunt him throughout his lower school vocational career and at 16 when applying for a different upper school. But his favourite ever ballet teacher at a different associate scheme would fulfil all the criteria for the sort of teacher rightly condemned on the Panorama programme. His personal connection with this teacher meant he didn't feel pressured, bullied or undermined - rather challenged and encouraged to achieve his best. And supported - and maybe that's the key. The teacher also took time to come and see us and ensure that all was well. To him the worst thing was being ignored or excluded. He needed to be confronted. A teacher at one summer school famously opened a window threatening to dangle him out - he loved it, responded, improved beyond recognition. But he knew because he had worked with the teacher before that he wasn't in danger, he just needed to up his game. Boarding requires relinquishing some control, whether it's a week in the summer or a term. You could argue that any schooling does. If you feel supported that's manageable. If there's good communication that's manageable When there Is no transparency, you feel things are being hidden or just have a good old fashioned gut feel something is wrong - this needs action.

Distorting men's body shape can be equally dangerous. Strength work, which leads to bulking up also leads to injuries, partly because the boy is out of balance for the majority of their dancing, even if the lifts can be achieved. Only time DS required surgery was under these circumstances. As I have mentioned elsewhere core strength for both partners, not body mass, is one of the most significant factors for partnering. Maybe a look at the tricks expected which seem to grow more extreme each year.

From conversations with my DS over the years, mass is only one aspect. Core stability, the ability to leap and then hold position is even more important. Strength is as, if not more, of a consideration. Sadly though it's not just the schools it's the companies who want a certain shape. From direct experience from his graduating years and since, dancers told that they need to loose x kg to be hired or considered for a role. These are not UK companies, the situation may be different.

I think one thing you have forgotten - will your daughter be happy there? I would honestly dispute the idea that any ballet school will "minimise stress". Regardless of how things work on paper, reality may be different. Does your DC get on with the rest of the year? Is she happier in a purely ballet environment or happier mixing with a variety of performers? Is she used to an urban or rural environment? I sent my DS to the school which worked on paper. He achieved more at a less prestigious school where he was happy and cared for by the staff who really went the extra mile for him. The boarding facilities to me were frankly dubious - to him it was home .

Mr Dutton is awesome!

This is what my son is needing to provide Valid passport (I think 6 months remaining) Proof of health insurance Proof of travel insurance Copy of work permit application, provided by employer Evidence of accommodation Criminal background check (Accro) High School Diploma (he used degree certificate I think) All translated into appropriate language and certified. Just to complicate things he can only be in the country 90 days on temporary visa (including finding aforementioned accommodation) - and it typically takes 45 to 70 days to complete the paperwork. This is similar to the list for a previous job offer he had in a different country. Both are outside the EU. Visa requirements are nothing to do with dance ability! They are the legal side of things. All that is required is evidence that compulsory education is complete.

As we fill in yet more paperwork this is very true - and if only our education qualifications mapped on to those of Europe/rest of the world! It's actually high school level education that they are interested in rather than ballet qualifications.

There's a quote from the Dead Poet's Society I put in a display outside our library door. “Medicine, law, business, engineering, these are all noble pursuits, and necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for.”

As the mother of children with degrees in Stage Management, Modern Ballet and Professional Trumpet I'm interested to see how the government's new policy regarding degrees. According to the BBC website access will be limited to degrees that do not good have good outcomes for students. "courses that do not have "good outcomes" for students would include those that have high drop-out rates or have a low proportion of students going on to professional jobs. It will also look at potential earnings when deciding if a degree offers enough value." I'm pretty sure of none of my children's degree courses, all from leading Conservatoires, would be considered to have good outcomes by this criteria. I think this raises questions of the value that is placed on the creative arts, and also how the outcomes of any degree are assessed.

I have a spreadsheet (honestly) for our summer holiday this year. We all assured DS it would be fun to move him from one obscure country to another. Add in Non DS who wants to come for the experience of driving in that part of the world, and Musical DD who is joining us having spent the summer bringing art and music to children in refugee camps. There one day out of the 10 when at least one of us is not travelling. My fault but next time I'm funding a man and a van (transcontinental).

It's not just starting out! Speaking of Eastern Europe the salaries are low but so is the cost of living. Manydancers in the companies are locals and either treat the ballet as a part time job working elsewhere (dance schools, related industries ie photography), or are second wage earners. Hard news for the Brits is when they have to buy a flight elsewhere! Can eat up vast amounts of their monthly wage

Young people in Eastern Europe will probably speak some English (and welcome the opportunity to speak more) - depends exactly where. In some countries in Eastern Europe my DS experienced open hostility as a UK citizen - in others he was welcomed. Are there other English speakers in the school? Also, crazy as it seems, does the town have a medical school that teaches in English? DS has always found friends from the UK in towns where this is the case - many students who don't get the grades to study med. in the UK move abroad. Regarding PDD - honesty is the best policy. With your partner and with the school. Tell your partner you haven't got much experience. Ask for clarification. Be explicit as to what help you need and when you need clarification.

Congratulations to all taking up places. My DS graduated six years ago now ... he was only talking yesterday about how the faculty got the absolute best out of him, and what an amazing experience he had there. Still in touch with creatives from a number of disciplines.

It sounds like a bit of a head vs heart dilemma going on - heart every time, gut instinct every time .... Just a word of caution about finding pointework classes outside of your college. Although it may be available, it isn't necessarily available at the times which will suit you. Also assuming you've been dancing all day, and the class isn't on your doorstep, you may not wish to traipse an hour or two across London to take an extra class. I'd also be seriously worried about the possibility of injury if it isn't part of your college timetable. Let us know what you decide!

Photos in frames - start taking and gathering now.