PetrovaFossil

Such a lovely story!

Ooh I realise it is still October but now drdance has given me an idea for my Christmas list....I have been mostly good this year and a theraband would fit v nicely in a stocking.... :-)

Hi mimi66, I absolutely agree about how hard it must sometimes be for the teacher. I also like your point that although we think ballet is an escape, we bring our usual selves with us! The course I did about group dynamics was a "group relations" course, the idea is that all these complex dynamics to do with granting/taking/challenging authority, being part of or outside of the group, who we can trust and who we can't, taking a risk of "loosing face" in order to be creative.....all this (and more) goes on in any group, we just don't usually focus on this as usually the point of the group is to do something else, like learn ballet. In the group relations course, the task is to actually focus on these things and discuss them as they happen. This sounds a bit navel gazing but is actually quite raw and v challenging. The link between risk taking or even rule breaking and creativity is something that has stayed with me from it, that I hadn't really thought about before. But on a more practical level I like the idea of your thread, and thinking about some of the often "unspoken" rules of ballet class more explicitly.

Hello Michelle- I'm a natural lurker I'm afraid so usually just read but couldn't resist this topic! I work in mental health and have done a couple of courses on group dynamics. I'm looking forward to the next LAB intensive.... Lots of interesting posts and experiences here.

Sorry cross posts with lots of people there! I like the sound of ENB and I agree people are waiting for the teacher to take charge.

I have been to quite a variety of adult classes. Mostly, I think people are respectful of each other, and if there is the odd hiccup that is understandable in a situation where people are sharing space, time and attention in a way that is being worked out as they go along- this is highly evolved social stuff with complex group dynamics going on! Who is the best, who is the most confident, who can remember the steps, who has been going to class for along time and knows the system (or the exercise) already, who are friends, who are rivals etc - and this is all being processed practically subconsciously. I had a teacher who used to ask us to e.g. do an exercise in 3 groups- but would then praise those who had joined in with the other groups as demonstrating keenness! That was one of the reasons I left that class, I felt we were being encouraged to "fight" for space in a way that was unhelpful, I think the teacher's theory was "ballet is competitive", but we were all adult students learning for pleasure, not for a career. In most classes, I would appreciate more guidance from the teacher when it comes to small groups moving across the room, the first two groups always have all the good dancers in, then everyone starts making a hash of it until the last group who have no clue and the teacher (or an advanced student) takes pity on them and does it with them! As this happens so often, why not avoid by splitting the more advanced students up a bit from the start? Why can't we organise ourselves to do this? Sometimes it all gets a bit like picking teams for games at school- no one wants the ones who can't do it, and no-one wants to be the one picked last...but why not focus on helping each other learn? I have to say in my current regular class and at the LAB summer school I have found a real culture of supporting each other which is great. Ice skating on "patch" or "freestyle" ice is similar but far, far worse- those with music get priority,then those having lessons, you give way to those more advanced or those doing a complex jump/spin, but if you don't hold your ground sometimes you never get anything done and the consequences of getting it wrong can be a nasty crash or fall...

This is quite reassuring for me to read so thank you- I'm sure some of these variations have confused me at times and I always assumed it was just me forgetting the terminology rather than realising a different term was being used! Disclaimer - probably sometimes it was just me... :-)

In ice skating, everyone jumps AND spins either anticlockwise (the majority) OR clockwise. Interestingly, assuming most people are right footed (wikipedia quotes about 80%), this means most skaters are jumping off and spinning on their non dominant leg. Although preference for turning direction in skating does not correspond to dominant hand/foot. Having done quite a bit of ballet and yoga I find this "one sidedness" quite strange. I wonder if more people would do at least some spins and jumps both ways or find a mixture of preferences in the way you describe if everyone learnt both ways initially. My coach is really not keen to teach me both ways (she says it is too confusing) but I practice both ways a little bit. Thanks for these articles, I'm really trying to sort out my pirouettes currently so v timely. The falling backwards thing was quite a relevation - why didn't I notice that before??

I'm coming to this too! I can commute across London so don't need a hotel but will have to get up early. I did a contemporary summer intensive years ago and it was mostly utterly fantastic, although I was in too high a level group for some things and struggled to keep up. I had noticeably improved by the end of the week, I'm hoping this will do the same for my ballet...

Hi Karen, glad you like it! I read it again recently as thought my daughter might like it but she is still a bit young. I was going to be Posy but thought that was a bit grandiose considering the state of my dancing...

Interesting point re weights drdance - now you mention it, it is the grand battements to the back that are particularly better. I'll stick to the exercises generally without weights then. Thanks for the welcome spannerandpony. Hope the physio is going well.

Thanks...have been lurking and enjoying for a while, thought I should start posting!

This is all fascinating! The other thing I wonder is whether, if one of today's top dancers went back in a time machine, would people think "wow" or "weird". I'm guessing the second option, given contortionists have been around for a long time so extreme flexibility is not a new thing. Also I think it is interesting how this is tied in with a more general consensus of what looks good, and also how watching a contortionist can be shocking due to extreme nature of the stretch rather than the admiration of a dancer who is a little bit beyond what is expected (I mean in comparison with other ballet dancers rather than compared with ordinary people), so the ballet look changes gradually. I should say I don't know about contortion apart from accidentally finding a website recently when researching about stretching to improve flexibility!

Hi Michelle, I am currently working on this too and found that article via google a few weeks ago. I did ballet as a teenager and have done various classes here and there as an adult but not terribly consistently and have always had active static hip flexion with a straight leg of 90 degrees, no more. Since jan I have been doing ballet more regularly and more actively trying to improve certain things. I have worked on passive and dynamic hip flexibility (some improvements in these areas) and had a light bulb moment that was trying to use my quads to lift my leg higher when doing the active static stretch, which clearly isn't going to work! Hence searching for how to develop psoas and finding that article, I have been trying to do the exercise it suggests. Also using my bannister or dressing table as a barre to get leg above that 90 deg and then trying to lift an inch or so more. I have noticed only small improvements so far, but have a busy life with 2 young kids so am doing it most days rather than every day. The other thing I wanted to suggest that you don't mention is ankle weights? I ice skate and although I don't practice spirals that often ( like arabesque but moving on skates) I think the weight of the boot has made a noticeable difference to my leg extension to the back. Am going to get some ankle weights for this reason. Am encouraged by your gains!