Simply Adult Ballet: the progress of one adult dancer who took up ballet later in life

[2dancersmum]

Clips can appear on youtube for all sorts of reasons.  I can across one of my youngest DD dancing a solo - taken by a parent at a rehearsal and I was unaware of it - she had recorded the whole scene and put it on youtube so that members of her family unable to make the performance could watch it.  There were numerous other young dancers in the scene and it was later shortened to show just her DD's solo - I don't know if something had been said since she hadn't even been supposed to be in the rehearsal in the first place.

 

And classes/rehearsals which are filmed and the dancers know about it in advance and give permission for filming can later appear on youtube for publicity/marketing purposes.  LAB have a promotional video and a recent Swan Lake workshop (City Academy?) is also on there.  Nothing wrong with that as consent has been given.

[mimi66]

[...]

I suppose you could just video the person, or people, who don't mind being recorded, if someone would find it really necessary.

 

Or one could also suggest that with the amount of time spent on arranging such "shooting" on the spot, the whole class can squeeze in a couple more runs - which will be much more useful and serves better for the purpose of such class - "learning how to dance ballet  (at each levels of development)" . 

 

Plus it will benefit the whole class, not just the person who wants to video.

Edited May 2, 2014 by mimi66

[Michelle_Richer]

Mimi if I can just take this coment first ”please rest assured that classes led by responsible, professional teachers would not allow irresponsible filming nor photo-taking of the class (particularly by an amateur), even if it is salsa”,

I guess it depends on what you perceive as “Irresponcible”. Firstly in my active days of Salsa videoing was present at all the classes and social dances I attended in all my neibouring counties and furthermore at national events like the International Cuban Salsa Congress that I attened too. I still attend one salsa class socially and the odd dance too. But for me ballet is full time.

 

JulieW: Ref “I suppose you could just video the person, or people, who don't mind being recorded, if someone would find it really necessary.” In a normal classroom enchainement I would agree, but in a group performance piece, the piece likely to need the dancer change formation a number of times, this is a reaal headache when when dancers become absent and you just have to work round it. If a significant number were missing, videoing it would be virtually worthless.

Bangorballetboy Ref “In my opinion, that makes for lazy dancers.  Part of the class should be teaching the brain to receive, engage and remember the enchainement”, yes but sometimes the brain needs help untill that becomes established muscle memory, then the brain has much less to do. As for “lazy”, I do not for one instant think the person I offered help to is lazy or un motiveated. I too make use of videos and I certanly do not regard myself a lazy, how many dancers do you know that travel on a round trip of around 500mile on a single day a week and still manage to do over 5hours of ballet covering 5 different classes, that in my schedule every week for the next two month until the show date. Needless to say I do multiple ballet classes on the other days of the week too.

 

General
The main point I was making that video is a power tool to aid memory, it not a substitute for it, but memory fades with time. Also its brilliant for self correction of those errors your not aware of, espeially if your teacher ha not spotted them, to repeat the enchaimement will do nothing to correct these. This is not about working harder its about working smarter and not making do, as that’s what we have always done.

 

I use many training aids to assist with my ballet development which does include professional videos. But then I do have my own small fully equiped studio with srung floor etc but never the less I do hire the same hall as my local ex-ballet teacher at least once a week after her class, as we are still good friend, but sometime more. I also hire a London studio for one-to-one repertiore coaching from a very reputable teacher, as well as a whole host of ballet classes, rep workshops, intensive and summer schools.

 

Clearly we come from two different cultures, for me “the old ways are the best” will always be challenged into finding more efficent ways of achieving the same end goal.

[Jan McNulty]

I am sure many of the adult dancers on this board would like to be able to spend the amount of time that you do in pursuance of their dream but if, for whatever reason, they cannot it does not mean they are any less committed than you.

 

There are many things I would like to spend more time doing but either I do not have the time or the money or sometimes both.  That does not mean I am not committed to doing something because I do all I can but can't do everything.

[Dancer Sugar Plum]

Bangorballetboy Ref “In my opinion, that makes for lazy dancers.  Part of the class should be teaching the brain to receive, engage and remember the enchainement”, yes but sometimes the brain needs help untill that becomes established muscle memory, then the brain has much less to do. As for “lazy”, I do not for one instant think the person I offered help to is lazy or un motiveated. I too make use of videos and I certanly do not regard myself a lazy, how many dancers do you know that travel on a round trip of around 500mile on a single day a week and still manage to do over 5hours of ballet covering 5 different classes, that in my schedule every week for the next two month until the show date. Needless to say I do multiple ballet classes on the other days of the week too.

 

General

The main point I was making that video is a power tool to aid memory, it not a substitute for it, but memory fades with time. Also its brilliant for self correction of those errors your not aware of, espeially if your teacher ha not spotted them, to repeat the enchaimement will do nothing to correct these. This is not about working harder its about working smarter and not making do, as that’s what we have always done.

 

I use many training aids to assist with my ballet development which does include professional videos. But then I do have my own small fully equiped studio with srung floor etc but never the less I do hire the same hall as my local ex-ballet teacher at least once a week after her class, as we are still good friend, but sometime more. I also hire a London studio for one-to-one repertiore coaching from a very reputable teacher, as well as a whole host of ballet classes, rep workshops, intensive and summer schools.

 

Clearly we come from two different cultures, for me “the old ways are the best” will always be challenged into finding more efficent ways of achieving the same end goal.

 

I agree videoing class can help all dancers, such as in the context Balleteacher has mentioned. The teacher may want to show a student(s) that they have a habit of not pointing their foot enough, for example, but the student doesn't notice it. The dancer may even notice things that need correcting that they didn't notice while dancing.

 

However, I also agree that in learning choreography, whether it is original choreography or a variation from the classics, the dancer should be able to pick it up from the teacher's verbal instructions, or the teacher just 'marking' it. I accept that the student/dancer may need verbal prompting from the teacher or be given physical corrections such as, 'your arm should be up here and not down there at this part', etc. If a dancer is having to rely on recordings to remember the steps, then I would say that the choreography is beyond that dancer's level. Or the dancer should not be doing the variation because he/she is not ready for it yet. I would also suggest that it would be counter-productive for that dancer's development.

 

In my opinion, it is better to perform something simple in ballet and do it very well, rather than attempt something that's way beyond your currently level and do it badly. I had one teacher, who was an ex-professional dancer in a classical company say that it takes years of training to be allowed to do a minute-and-a-half solo on stage. Another teacher, also an ex-professional, says that learning the steps of a dance/variation is only part 1 of the process because there is so much more to doing variations than just knowing which step follows what step. I agree with my teacher. This isn't about 'the old ways' vs 'new ways', just a fact of learning ballet.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Dancer Sugar Plum

[mimi66]

[...]

Clearly we come from two different cultures, for me “the old ways are the best” will always be challenged into finding more efficent ways of achieving the same end goal.

 

Finally I can agree with you that we come from two different cultures .  

 

Our culture does not dismiss:-

 

1) dancers who for perfectly valid reasons would not wish to be filmed or photographed without their prior consents as "not serious dancers" ; and

 

2) ballet class which are not specifically designed to put an amateur performance at the end of predetermined numbers of sessions - as "your standard everyday recreational ballet class".

 

Also we do not do things just because it has always been done before. Generally ballet dancers and teachers do things because it has been proven to be most effective method of learning through years of experience and experiments.  We do not confuse "efficiency" with "laziness" or "avoidance of learning essential skills (such as picking up enchainements on the spots, for instance)".

Edited May 2, 2014 by mimi66

[Michelle_Richer]

Dancer Sugar Plum

I agree in principle with what you are saying in your last para, this is the very reason I use a ballet teacher who is also an ex-professional ballerina for my rep coaching, for me that works well and I really treasure her.

 

As regards being able to execute a scene from the classics from a teacher verbal description to use Mimi’s words “on the spot”, I very much doubt that even a professional dancer would be able to recite that scene back fully, that requires a phenomenal mental processing before muscle memory to dance it. To dance that scene does take time and repetition called rehearsal to establish that precise muscle memory. No one at any of my performing classes is ever expected to process that much information in one go and most have been dancing since small children.

 

For me I simply work round the limitation and use what ever tool and facilities assist that.

 

Mimi66

I note your point about not dismissing (1) and (2), although its academic each dancer has signed an agreement with the school to be allowed to do photographing and filming, so the consent is technically in place. So the teacher could have done that, but instead did not object but ask if everyone agreed, I really didn’t have any problem with that.

 

My issue is, I see dancing as a group (corps de ballet) as having a group identity and responsibility to each other and operating in a way that is beneficial to the group as a whole. If videoing were to take place then the different formations during that choreography would be as fully populated as the dancers present. Whilst I have to accept those that decline have the right to do so, I would not use the word “respect” in the same context, I am personally sadly disappointed by their attitude.

 

As for your comment “avoidance of learning essential skills (such as picking up enchainements on the spots, for instance)". I have never suggested these are avoided, but I do not allow them to become a limiting factor either if there is a work round option. I must confess I don’t always pickup every instance of every enchainement but I do most, that’s why I sometimes hang back a line or two. To do a full classical ballet scene on the spot, no chance!. But don’t think for one instance I’m deterred by that, this gal has too much determination and fire in her belly for that, I will always give it my all, how about you?

[LinMM]

Actually when I attend a workshop and it is filmed at the end of the day as our" final performance" I am not giving my permission for it to appear on YouTube!! So I will be investigating this with City Academy in fact......regards a post above.

 

There is supposed to be a closed City Academy group as in the LAB and Chelsea Ballet in fact and I thought the videos were being sent to this closed group only. If it is going anywhere else I shall just refuse to be filmed in future unless given this guarantee.

Giving ones consent to be filmed is under certain conditions and one expects these to be respected.

 

The weekly videos taken by LAB are for the group only to see.

The other videos for promotional purposes etc are usually taken at public performances........and would normally only be on their own website. What I wouldn't know......never yet having taken part in one of these.....is anyone in the audience allowed to film when we are dancing. Because of course then this could end up on YouTube.

I think some people are extremely rude and thoughtless to record things and put on YouTube without the people taking part being told about this.

[Tulip]

At Tring and Central classes are usually only recorded at assessment so that the student can see themselves and discuss corrections at feed back with their teachers. These recordings are the property of the school and therefore stay within the school. As has been mentioned personnel recordings can go anywhere.

[2dancersmum]

The main point I was making that video is a power tool to aid memory, it not a substitute for it, but memory fades with time. Also its brilliant for self correction of those errors your not aware of, espeially if your teacher ha not spotted them, to repeat the enchaimement will do nothing to correct these

 

Michelle - that bit I agree with fully. Everyone has their own learning style and this will suit some people more than others. You ruffled feathers because of your dismissive comments regarding dancers who do not share your point of view, not because of your point of view - which is just as valid as anyone elses.

 

I also think you perhaps need to read other peoples comments a bit more carefully or perhaps reread. You keep making points about picking up enchainments and classical ballet scenes on the spot but no-one has suggested that these things could or should be learned 'on the spot' - the 'on the spot' comment was made about on the spot filming not learning.

 

Lin - I take it you have found the video I was referring to. Normally when you sign the consent form for filming, it gives general blurb about what they might want to use the footage for. For my children for example, when they were younger especially, I allowed them to be filmed during workshops but only in group shots and with no names used. As for a member of an audience filming during a performance, I think normally under theatre regulations, they are not allowed - but of course there are always those that break the rules - though I suspect that it is more likely with a parent trying to film a child than an adult trying to film an adults performance.

 

DD is filmed at assessments too but the situation is as Tulip describes.

Edited May 2, 2014 by 2dancersmum

[mimi66]

As regards being able to execute a scene from the classics from a teacher verbal description to use Mimi’s words “on the spot”, I very much doubt that even a professional dancer would be able to recite that scene back fully, that requires a phenomenal mental processing before muscle memory to dance it. To dance that scene does take time and repetition called rehearsal to establish that precise muscle memory. No one at any of my performing classes is ever expected to process that much information in one go and most have been dancing since small children. [....]

 

For me I simply work round the limitation and use what ever tool and facilities assist that.[...]

 

 

Michelle, please quote me correctly if you must quote me.  

 

For the record, I said in my post #850:-

 

"Personally, as an adult I would not even dream of performing in public (paying or non-paying) unless I have reached the level where I can  "[execute stepwise,] perfectly a scene from one of the classics, only conveyed to you verbally be your teacher by its classical step names (quated from Michelle's above post)", which really is the ability required for advanced/ professional (what you call "your everyday recreational" ) class. " [emphasis added by mimi66].

 

So, academic or otherwise, are you taking back what you said about your fellow dancers who refused to be filmed by an amateur cameraperson ("not serious performing dancers"), and your dismissive comment about  normal ballet class ( "your standard everyday recreational class")?  

Edited May 2, 2014 by mimi66

[Michelle_Richer]

Lin

The City Academy one was done professionally, it was well before your time with them and wasn't released until about a year later. And of course LAB have some quite old clips on their website too, and the odd recent photo. We had a photographer round last week taking lots of promotional photo's which I think is now down to 18 possibles. No one in our group at Battersea objected at all. I guess some of us felt just a little bit proud, I did, that's what I call group identity.

[Anna C]

Each dancer may well have signed an agreement to allow filming and photographs to be done for publicity purposes but when I sign such an agreement on behalf of my daughter, it is on the understanding that only the teacher/school/organisation themselves will be doing the filming or taking the photos - or an official photographer on their behalf.

 

That is entirely different to a class member or member of the audience videoing on their own mobile phone. I doubt that would be covered in the agreement. As has been said previously, there may be any number of reasons why dance students may not wish to be videoed by another class member. As to not respecting that I think that is rather rude and shows a lack of empathy for others.

 

With regards to picking up enchainments simply by having the vocab already in place, and marking while the teacher is demonstrating, I don't think mimi was saying "on the spot" as in knowing the entire variation instantly. I took it to mean that people can and do learn variations without having to refer to video footage, i.e. they have the required vocabulary and solid technique in place which enables them to mark the steps while the teacher is demonstrating. Then they rehearse and repeat the variation to get it "locked in" and polish the performance, acting etc.

 

Edited to add: mimi and I were posting at the same time. :-)

[2dancersmum]

Lin - I have pm'd you the links to the youtube videos I found so you can see for yourself what they are and when they were filmed, for if they involve you or not.  Michelle is definitely in one of them but I do not know if you are or if, as Michelle says, it was before you joined.

[mimi66]

LinMM, I sent you a PM, too.

 

mimi66

[Thecatsmother]

On the subject of learning and recording. I think there is far more to be gained from perhaps recording oneself doing basic steps which can be done in privacy and then really looking at how these can be improved technically. After all if you have poor quality ingredients even if they are in the right order this does not necessarily equate to a good performance. Learning the steps is really only a quarter of the process although it may feel like more for those who are unfamiliar with picking up choreography. This does not mean it cannot be enjoyed just that one has to get a balance between the amount of time spent learning steps versus the time spent addressing the technique, musicality and performance qualities of the piece. I personally would far rather watch simple choreography of a higher technical standard than complex choreography where technique goes out the window.

[Anon2]

Lin, if a member of the audience records and then posts on YouTube the group director has a right to request the clip is removed. This happened a couple of years ago a clip was posted of a dance at Move It by an audience member and was promptly removed when discovered. Not being You Tube savvy I have no idea how you go about it though!!

[taxi4ballet]

Even the train journey from Kings Cross to Peterborough was unpleasant as the upper window above my seat kept flying open at the smallest of pressure changes; I think the catch mechanism must have been broken. At one period I held it shut.

 

We've sat by that window too (and held it shut)! 

[Michelle_Richer]

Mimi

As for “are you taking back what you said about your fellow dancers who refused to be filmed by an amateur cameraperson ("not serious performing dancers")”

 

The point I subsequently made explains clearly my position, and I do not restrict this to an amateur cameraperson, it could have equally been the teacher.

,

My issue is, I see dancing as a group (corps de ballet) as having a group identity and responsibility to each other and operating in a way that is beneficial to the group as a whole. If videoing were to take place then the different formations during that choreography would be as fully populated as the dancers present. Whilst I have to accept those that decline have the right to do so, I would not use the word “respect” in the same context, I am personally sadly disappointed by their attitude.

 

 

In plain and simple terms I see this as the objectors not caring about the group as a whole and not helping when they had the opportunity too, in other words “not my problem” and YES I do see that as not being serious performing dancers as I strongly believe were are there to support each other in that corps de ballet setting in whatever way we can. That's why I offered to help.

 

As for “and your dismissive comment about normal ballet class ( "your standard everyday recreational class"). I don’t see anything dismissive about that, doing an enchainement for performance takes considerable more time learning and polishing through rehearsals to a far higher standard than a regular class which runs far shorter sequences only once or twice on each side. The requirement to perform as I highly synchronised group is far less intense, and your focus and dependency is now on your own performance as a regular class rather than that as a group.

This particular point was never intended to be dismissive but illustrate the differences.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Michelle_Richer

[Jan McNulty]

On the "performances seen" thread there was a discussion about the last ballet school in Iraq and on another thread one of our older members mentioned that she had not been able to start ballet till she left home because her father disapproved of ballet.

 

Imagine if amateur filmers (or even the teacher) had filmed some of these people and put the resultant output on the internet.  Imagine the potential repercussions.

 

I say again, if someone does not want to be filmed for whatever reason (which they do not need to disclose!) that needs to be respected.  If their opinion about filming or anything else differs from your opinion Michelle it does not make them less committed or less part of the group.  People are entitled to their own opinions and calling their integrity into question as you seem to be trying to do is IMHO the ultimate form of disrespect not only for them as individuals but also as members of the team.

 

Just an interested query, to move slightly away from the current subject.  You have often mentioned your tutus.  If you are part of a group and you wear a full professional tutu when everyone else is in practise tutus how would that make you part of the group?

[Michelle_Richer]

Janet
I do not believe a risk existed that would result in the rehearsal clip finding its way on the internet in this particular case.

 

As for your next point. I don’t like seeing myself on video but I do see it as value to the group as a whole and me personally for my own shortcomings. I have to take what I see aesthetically of myself on the chin as that’s reality, warts and all.

 

 

As for the way I dress on Intensives with a full professional tutu, everyone has that option, but mine is in keeping with the rest of our corps de ballet both in general style and colour (white). I could understand your point if I turned up in a Black Swan styled tutu. In any case I also had a white practice one with me should it not be seen as appropriate by my artistic director. It’s also true to say many of the dancers had different coloured leotards with their practice tutu’s, so the dress protocol wasn’t that rigid.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Michelle_Richer

[Jan McNulty]

Janet

I do not believe a risk existed that would result in the rehearsal clip finding its way on the internet in this particular case.

 

As for your next point. I don’t like seeing myself on video but I do see it as value to the group as a whole and me personally for my own shortcomings. I have to take what I see aesthetically of myself on the chin as that’s reality, warts and all.

 

 

 

I think you are being disingenuous here.  This is not about what you think or what you can or cannot guarantee about whether a film may or may not appear on the internet.  It is about what some of your other team members felt and the fact that because you disagree with them you see fit to call their  commitment and, indeed, their integrity into question via this board.

[Tulip]

Michelle if you felt so let down by some of the dancers , did you not tell them how you felt and are they aware that you are discussing them on this forum in a negative manner, where they can't defend themselves. As I see it these ladies who do not want to be filmed for whatever reasons are part of the team and it is you who is letting you team members down by discussing them in such a rude manner. Do they turn up for all the rehearsals, do they work hard, dose the teacher consider them to be worthy of being in the show? If the answer is yes, then these dancers are just as committed as you are. Just because they don't want to be filmed doesn't warrent you criticism of them. I once belonged to an amateur operatic society and honestly the behaviour of some members, they thought that they were professionals. They were known as the queens or princesses, it was a committed hobby but they were amateurs just like the rest of us. If they didn't get their own way they sulked and stomped around, I had never seen anything like it before. I really hope in amateur ballet performances you don't get the same behaviour and that you are all part of an equal team, where everyone respects each other's wishes. It is a hobby at the end of the day as it is not a paid occupation. Everyone is there to pessue their interest and do the best that they can, within their capability. If you feel let down by your friends Michelle then tell them, they may then explain to you why they don't wish to be filmed.

[Tulip]

Oh dear, I've been pressing too many buttons and I'm tired. Moderators woul you be able to kindly remove my extra posts please.

[Jan McNulty]

Done, Tulip!

[Michelle_Richer]

Janet:
Why is I see this as group responsibility to each other and operating in a way that is beneficial to the group as a whole, am I alone in expecting others to share that responcibility and outlook. Why is it that I was the only one to offer help, I care so what does that say about MY comitment in contrast.

 

Tulip
Yes the dancers in question do know of my strong feelings on this matter, as for what has taken place on this forum obviously not. But then neither has the school been named or the dancers in question. Furthermore It was not I that requested videoing of the show sequence but another dancer, I simply indicated my dissaproval. The rest has developed as a result of remarkes from other members of this forum to me. But I say again , I was the only one who could be bothered to help this dancer.

 

As for “Do they turn up for all the rehearsals”, there are usually a few missing each week and seldom is everyone there, I seldom mis any of my classes and then by planned prior arrangement.

[alison]

But then neither has the school been named or the dancers in question.

 

Perhaps not. But not identifying them doesn't necessarily mean that they're unidentifiable: you've probably written enough over the last few months that anyone with the inclination could go through your postings in detail and be pretty clear who you're talking about.

[Jan McNulty]

Janet:

Why is I see this as group responsibility to each other and operating in a way that is beneficial to the group as a whole, am I alone in expecting others to share that responcibility and outlook. Why is it that I was the only one to offer help, I care so what does that say about MY comitment in contrast.

 

Tulip

Yes the dancers in question do know of my strong feelings on this matter, as for what has taken place on this forum obviously not. But then neither has the school been named or the dancers in question. Furthermore It was not I that requested videoing of the show sequence but another dancer, I simply indicated my dissaproval. The rest has developed as a result of remarkes from other members of this forum to me. But I say again , I was the only one who could be bothered to help this dancer.

 

As for “Do they turn up for all the rehearsals”, there are usually a few missing each week and seldom is everyone there, I seldom mis any of my classes and then by planned prior arrangement.

 

 

Michelle, why do you assume that people are questioning your commitment?  I don't believe anyone has done that.

 

What people are concerned about is your assumption that other team members are not committed because they did not want to be informally filmed by someone.

 

How do you know whether anyone else has offered support to the young lady or not?  Do you make that assumption solely on the fact that no-one else offered help during the class when the filming issue arose?

 

You talk about team work.  Has it occurred to you that your vociferousness could actually be as, if not more, divisive, within the team?  Have you considered that your vociferousness both within the class and on this forum could be undermining the confidence of both your teachers and fellow students, thereby affecting team spirit?  Have you considered whether your comments, as phrased, about the difference between taking a regular class and a class/rehearsal leading to performance is undermining other members of this forum who do not, for whatever reason, go to dance classes that have a performance bias?

 

Has it occurred to you that if you had not called into question the commitment and integrity of your other team members, including the teacher, but had made a comment about the benefits of filming that we could have had an interesting and rewarding discussion about the merits of filming and the opinions of people about being filmed themselves?

 

Finally, and possibly most importantly, has it occurred to you that your fellow team members and their families, friends and colleagues may read this forum but may not want to enter into a public debate about their commitment and integrity being questioned?  And that this, too, could be further undermining the team spirit you seem so keen to foster?

[mimi66]

Michelle, why do you assume that people are questioning your commitment?  I don't believe anyone has done that.

 

What people are concerned about is your assumption that other team members are not committed because they did not want to be informally filmed by someone.

 

How do you know whether anyone else has offered support to the young lady or not?  Do you make that assumption solely on the fact that no-one else offered help during the class when the filming issue arose?

 

You talk about team work.  Has it occurred to you that your vociferousness could actually be as, if not more, divisive, within the team?  Have you considered that your vociferousness both within the class and on this forum could be undermining the confidence of both your teachers and fellow students, thereby affecting team spirit?  Have you considered whether your comments, as phrased, about the difference between taking a regular class and a class/rehearsal leading to performance is undermining other members of this forum who do not, for whatever reason, go to dance classes that have a performance bias?

 

Has it occurred to you that if you had not called into question the commitment and integrity of your other team members, including the teacher, but had made a comment about the benefits of filming that we could have had an interesting and rewarding discussion about the merits of filming and the opinions of people about being filmed themselves?

 

Finally, and possibly most importantly, has it occurred to you that your fellow team members and their families, friends and colleagues may read this forum but may not want to enter into a public debate about their commitment and integrity being questioned?  And that this, too, could be further undermining the team spirit you seem so keen to foster?

 

Well said Janet!

 

If I may add to this... For all serious and dedicated ballet dancers, regardless of their current level of development as a ballet dancer, "ballet class" holds a very special place in their hearts. It is almost a sacred place. I am afraid I shall refrain from elaborating on this further here, but let's say all serious and dedicated students of ballet understand it and agree with this.

 

It is not so much to do with whether one participates in performance sessions - be that amateur performance (which anyone can participate without being auditioned first) or professional performance. Besides, I think a lot of forum member have already been there and done that (and got the tutus!) anyway, so it is not even an issue. It is more the fact that Michelle insulted the basis of ballet - class- that I felt I could not let that remark pass.

 

But then, looking at Michelle's understanding of what goes on in a normal ballet class, I am beginning to think that perhaps it is just the case or pure ignorance on Michelle's part. After all, she is still new to ballet world and coming to it at a rather late stage of her life.

 

Here I am quoting Michelle's exact words from her comment #874-

 

"doing an enchainement for performance takes considerable more time learning and polishing through rehearsals to a far higher standard than a regular class which runs far shorter sequences only once or twice on each side. The requirement to perform as I highly synchronised group is far less intense, and your focus and dependency is now on your own performance as a regular class rather than that as a group."

 

I do not recognise classes I go to in Michelle's above description. The classes I (and the rest of the world) attend, the requiement to perform as a highly synchronised group is the same in class - either at the barre or at the centre. In the class, we may only do an enchainement once or twice both side, but we are required to execute it to the highest standard at each attempts. In class, as in rehearsals, we do not spend ages just memorising the "routine" - we are expected to pick them up (possible because we are already fairly familiar with the components of each enchainements or that variation) when marking. So each attempt, even if it is just once or twice for that class, we aim for polished techinique and musicality, not worrying about remembering the steps.

 

I know it does not always happen, especially when one is a beginner, still new to ballet. But at least that is what every serious and dedicated dancer aims for during the class.

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, what one cannot do in class, one cannot do on stage (or in rehearsals).

 

Now Michelle and I do not attend the same ballet class. But I have a sneaky suspition that even if and when we were at the same class, we would still have radically different views and understanding of that particular ballet class from each other, that I would begin to wonder if I attended the same class with Michelle.

 

Because, it seems most likely that Michelle lives in a parallel universe....

Edited May 3, 2014 by mimi66

[aileen]

mimi66 and Michelle, I don't think that any further discussion on these points will be fruitful. I would urge both of you to reflect on what you have written before you press the Post button as the dismissive comments, sarcasm and subtle insults are not pleasant to read.

[Anna C]

I - and I suspect the other Mods - haven't stepped in officially thus far as nobody has contravened AUP. However, I would ask posters to try to curb their frustration and keep the conversation civil.

 

Thanks. :-)

[Michelle_Richer]

Awww Aileen and Spanner I’ve had a lovely ballet free day in the tranquillity of my beautify garden by the river until 8pm, I was so looking forward to playtime on the forum with my friends. Oh shucks, spoil sports, I love playing the bad girl, got my uniform today a Black Swan tutu from JB that should reflect my character.

 

LAB Gala 2014

Sat 5th July 3pm & 7.30pm Seating for 500

Duration Approximately 2 hours with an interval

 

Not sure when Open booking starts

 

Tickets: Stalls £22.50, Circle £18.50

Under 16 and registered disabled £15 all seats

 

LAB itself is made up of 3 different schools that meet every week, this last term that has been increased to 4, the fourth for pointe only for those experienced on pointe that will contribute to the Gala. I'm not sure on the actual number of performers but it will be somewhere between 70 and 100 LAB dancers with a section for a guest performance.

 

The format of the classes are similar, about an hour of company class (Barre and Centre), for my class the standard is similar or slightly higher than ENB level 3, much the same as most ballet classes sometimes slightly orientated towards rep. The second hour is spent learning and rehearsing rep re-choreographed for our particular group size to perform in the show ( multiple scenes from different ballets).

 

Audience base: Largely friends and family but open to the general public, I personally have ballet friends, Salsa friends and some of my teachers coming. My salsa groups at one stage even suggested getting a mini bus load together, wow a fan club, but that was possibly pie in the sky when is comes down to it.

 

I think that is as much as I can officially tell you at the moment

Edited May 3, 2014 by Michelle_Richer

[Terpsichore]

.............................................................

 

LAB Gala 2014

Sat 5th July 3pm & 7.30pm Seating for 500

 

Not sure when Open booking starts

 

Tickets: Stalls £22.50, Circle £18.50

Under 16 and registered disabled £15 all seats

 

.................

 

Audience base: Largely friends and family but open to the general public, ................

 

If I can I will come down to see you and LinMM in the show. The only problem is that the Tour de France passes through our village and all the roads will be closed.

 

While I may not agree with you on everything you are far from a bad girl in my book and I look forward to seeing you in Leeds on Tuesday.