Black Friday.

[Fonty]

Well, in the case of the school prom, I suspect it is the advertising people!

 

A lot of these things have been pushed heavily by the supermarkets, and other shops, who see an opportunity to make huge profits selling appropriately themed outfits and other bits and pieces. 

[Melody]

Oh, I'd forgotten the school prom - yes, that's another money-wasting habit imported from the USA. Next thing is, you'll be having graduation ceremonies for kids finishing primary school, complete with pale blue and pink gowns and mortar boards for the little tots.

 

From what some of our friends were telling us when we were back in the UK a few years ago during the time when schools had their proms, it certainly doesn't seem to be the parents who are in charge! As Fonty said, it's the companies that stand to make profits that are driving this stuff. And this is what I was saying a couple of posts ago - it's the homogenisation of different cultures and societies for the benefit of the companies selling their stuff, because it's more convenient for those companies to manipulate the demand to be similar around the world than to make different goods for different societies with different demands. I think it's really sad, but if that's where the demand is, I guess it's a trend that's just going to continue.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Melody

[Jacqueline]

One thing I don't think the promoters are having much luck with over here, unless I am mistaken, is the child/baby pageants? There have been numerous documentaries ( loved the one by Ruby Wax ) over the years about these, in my opinion, ghastly events which are clearly very big business in America.

There have been some press reports of children involved in English events, but these articles tend to be very critical and condescending of the mothers. Along the lines of many might consider it obscene to dress your child up like a mini tart and parade her around a stage for folk to gawp at. How do you feel about that? To which parent usually replies well, little 'Flossie Blue Belle' loves the attention and that's wot matters innit. Mummy loves the attention too of course.

As the learned judge might tell the jury, some may think the spectacle a morally questionable, exploitative outrage but that is a matter for you to decide.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Jacqueline

[Lisa O`Brien]

Oh, I'd forgotten the school prom - yes, that's another money-wasting habit imported from the USA. Next thing is, you'll be having graduation ceremonies for kids finishing primary school, complete with pale blue and pink gowns and mortar boards for the little tots.

 

From what some of our friends were telling us when we were back in the UK a few years ago during the time when schools had their proms, it certainly doesn't seem to be the parents who are in charge! As Fonty said, it's the companies that stand to make profits that are driving this stuff. And this is what I was saying a couple of posts ago - it's the homogenisation of different cultures and societies for the benefit of the companies selling their stuff, because it's more convenient for those companies to manipulate the demand to be similar around the world than to make different goods for different societies with different demands. I think it's really sad, but if that's where the demand is, I guess it's a trend that's just going to continue.

My son`s primary school have a Graduation Ceremony,complete with gowns and mortar boards.!!

[Lisa O`Brien]

One thing I don't think the promoters are having much luck with over here, unless I am mistaken, is the child/baby pageants? There have been numerous documentaries ( loved the one by Ruby Wax ) over the years about these, in my opinion, ghastly events which are clearly very big business in America.

There have been some press reports of children involved in English events, but these articles tend to be very critical and condescending of the mothers. Along the lines of many might consider it obscene to dress your child up like a mini tart and parade her around a stage for folk to gawp at. How do you feel about that? To which parent usually replies well, little 'Flossie Blue Belle' loves the attention and that's wot matters innit. Mummy loves the attention too of course.

As the learned judge might tell the jury, some may think the spectacle a morally questionable, exploitative outrage but that is a matter for you to decide.    I personally think entering your [usually] daughter in child beauty pageants is ghastly,and exploitative. You would have thought the death of Jon Benet whatever her surname was by a neighbour would have scared the pants out of parents,but apparently not. I`m sure the parents would argue,"But she enjoys competing". Tough. She`ll get over it. Having a small girl dress provokatively and wiggle her hips as she walks is just wrong. End of. Just my opinion, of course.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Sorry,Jacqueline,my post seems to have latched on to the end of yours.

[Fonty]

I guess it is very difficult for a parent to say no, you can't go, if all their friends are going.  And in theory, there is nothing actually wrong with having a bit of a party to celebrate the end of primary education, especially as children who have been together for 6 years will probably be splitting up and going to different senior schools. 

 

The problem is, these things quickly snowball out of control.  There always seems to be at least one parent who tries to outdo everyone else, making sure their little poppet has her hair professionally styled, and is wearing a brand new dress, with a designer logo.  And then all the other girls want to look like that as well. I can see, from the point of view of a parent, it must be very hard to try and persuade your own daughter that her not-quite-so-exclusive outfit, that she has probably worn several times before, looks just as stunning.

 

The funny thing is,most of the young boys look either vaguely embarrassed or bored by the whole thing. 

[Anjuli_Bai]

There is this old fashioned concept called....hmm....er....let me see if I can recall it....oh yes! - disciipline.  It's an important concept in dance class, too.   

 

When my son was about 12 yrs old there was a line of clothing that was "in" - i forget the name, but it had a particular logo.  It was all the rage.  It was also twice as expensive as other clothing of the same type and very shoddily made.  I bought him one shirt of this "in" brand and after having all the buttons falll off (and a few seams come apart) in the first wash - I bought no more.  He was devastated.  I told him he could have as many of these "in" shirts as he wanted - but he would have to pay for them himself.  I, of course, saw to it he was well clothed but not in those shoddy shirts ("in" though they may be).  He soon found it wasn't worth his while having to devote many hours mowing  and weeding neighbor's lawns (at 12 that was his way of earning money) just for one shirt which soon fell apart.  No international corporation - no matter how vigorous their advertising - could overcome that fact.  And neither could peer pressure.  What started out as a parental decision quickly became self-discipline.

 

You want a car?  Great!  Yes, of course you can have one - now go buy one - pay for it - including taxes, insurance, fuel, and upkeep. 

 

You want a fancy limo for the prom - yes! of course you can have one....pay for it.  A limo is not intrinsically necessary to your happiness.

 

I once read that it is difficult and time consuming to work at being a good, caring and instructive parent.  It takes no effort at all to just give the child all he/she desires.

 

As for those ghastly pageants for children.  A child of that young age is not capable of making good desicions.  I lay the blame entirely on the parents.  I've known a few of those little girls (they took ballet lessons) and they are often very unpleasant children.  I came to the conclusion that the parents - mostly the mothers - were living vicariously through their daughters.  

 

To go back to the concept of "discipline" - it also applies to Black Friday.  No one is dragged from their home to stand in a line to buy something like a TV.  If one can't resist advertising hoopla - there is something else missing in that person's life.  On the other hand, if someone does want to stand in such a line on a particular day of the year - go to it.  

 

As for "apling" other countries/cultures - there is very little in any culture which is "pristine."  Almost everything came from somewhere else.

 

Such as:  Santa Claus, Christmas trees, holiday foods, caroling, gift giving, music, literature, poetry -- and yes, ballet - and The Nutcracker.

 

I say we are enriched by it all. 

[Melody]

I don't feel enriched at all while watching my country's heritage being steamrollered by multinational corporations.

[AnneMarriott]

I don't feel enriched at all while watching my country's heritage being steamrollered by multinational corporations.

Absolutely!  It is one thing to enjoy the philosophies, food and festivals of other cultures but quite another to be swamped by things like fast food joints, coffee shops selling hot drinks that taste of anything but coffee, school proms, trick or treating and the like.  And one aspect of "cultural diversity" that has had me reeling this week is the effect on innocent little nativity plays.

[2dancersmum]

I think as with all things it will also vary from region to region as to how far parents take things with prom (and how far the kids push it).  Where I live we have first, middle and high school.  Leaving first school at aged 10 , the 'leaving do' is a family bbq with parents and siblings too.  Leaving high school at 16 there is the leavers ball - that is the real dress up time   Leaving middle school at aged 13 is prom.  Dress code is smart - so no jeans or shorts for the boys and most of the girls wear dresses.  You get the odd one who goes overboard with expensive ball gowns but it is only the odd one.  13 is an odd age to fit for prom - adult sized dresses are often too big and too 'adult' for a 13 year old and many party dresses for children are too childish for 13 year olds so consequently it is very difficult to find the right dress.  Many do not buy new or have a budget of about £30.  Prom itself is a disco in the school hall but the staff go all out to decorate it in secret so it is a surprise on the night for the students.  It costs £10 a ticket to include a buffet and a photo.  The nice thing about the prom though, that most of the kids remember, is the journey there.  The school lies at the far end of the village and the villagers and parents always line the streets to see the children go by.  A few go by limousine but it is far more common to have a tractor pulling a trailer, a horse and cart, a motor bike or an open topped car.  Its quite a procession and always fun to watch.  Overall it is a fun way to end middle school and not expensive for the majority.

[Fonty]

 Leaving high school at 16 there is the leavers ball - that is the real dress up time   Leaving middle school at aged 13 is prom.   A few go by limousine but it is far more common to have a tractor pulling a trailer, a horse and cart, a motor bike or an open topped car.  Its quite a procession and always fun to watch.  Overall it is a fun way to end middle school and not expensive for the majority.

 

That sounds like great fun, and something that the whole community is involved in.  I am puzzled with the Leavers' Ball idea, thought.  I went to all girls' school, and frankly the idea of dressing up in order to impress a load of boys we didn't know, who would have had to be brought in from another area, would not have pleased us at all.  When we completed our O levels, at 16, the headmistress used to organise a day trip for our year to Brighton, where we had a splendid day out. Much more my sort of thing!

 

I don't want to sound as though I am "Yank Bashing".  I realise that most of these things are driven by Big Business, and American companies have the ability and the money to buy out anything local.  We had a wonderful Italian coffee shop, but they sold out to Starbucks.  When I asked why, the owner said, "They offered me so much money for my business, I would be stupid to refuse it."  I can't really blame him, I suppose.  But I just hate Starbucks!

[Jacqueline]

Absolutely!  It is one thing to enjoy the philosophies, food and festivals of other cultures but quite another to be swamped by things like fast food joints, coffee shops selling hot drinks that taste of anything but coffee, school proms, trick or treating and the like.  And one aspect of "cultural diversity" that has had me reeling this week is the effect on innocent little nativity plays.

Quite so. It is sad to hear of this tinkering with the nativity play, watering down of the story and introduction of meaningless characters. Presumably this is all part of the obsession with political correctness and not offending anyone's sensibilities. Somebody somewhere, will always be offended by just about anything. Even more absurd are those who seem to make it their business to be offended on behalf of others, without bothering to ask those others whether they are actually offended. 

Quite how a drunken spaceman - offensive stereo type anyone? - or Elvis fit into the nativity escapes me. Why not just remove religion from Christmas

altogether? That seems to be the way it is going anyway.

I am not religious myself but I do love the simple things about this time of year. The candles and the carols in particular, King's College choir singing Once In Royal David's City is incredibly moving. Christmas Eve still retains some magic as it starts to get dark and I remember the excitement of childhood and waiting for Father Christmas. 

I remember one year when I couldn't sleep, can't recall my age but I knew I was getting a bicycle. My bedroom door opened and I called out Is that Father Christmas? no reply. A little while later the same. About the fifth time at about 3am, the door opened, I asked Is that Father Christmas? No it bloody well isn't, now get to sleep! came the reply from my exhausted mother trying yet again to get the bicycle to the foot of my bed. Such magical times!

Talking of Santa, what is the going rate for a visit to his grotto nowadays? Or at least, how much is reasonable? I was trundling round a local garden centre the other day and came across a shed with a bit of tinsel over the locked door. The sign read Welcome to Santas Grott (sic), Saturdays and Sundays, £5 per child. 

No mention of a gift included. Seemed rather expensive to me but I am somewhat out of date in these matters. 

[Anjuli_Bai]

Multinational corporations come from many countries - including the UK - and they buy out the small local shops here, too.

 

Nativity scenes are under assault here, too.

 

Political correctness is striking out against religion and other customs and traditions here, too.

 

Whatever country is in the ascendent at any given time often swamps the local people in far away places.  From Persia to Greece, from Rome to  when the UK controlled an empire upon which the sun never set.  

 

This thread - the anger I read - has been an eye opener for me.  

 

I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and a Very Happy New Year.

[Melody]

What's happening with your nativity play, Anne? Don't tell me it's got lobsters and octopi like in Love Actually...

[Sim]

Multinational corporations come from many countries - including the UK - and they buy out the small local shops here, too.

 

Nativity scenes are under assault here, too.

 

Political correctness is striking out against religion and other customs and traditions here, too.

 

Whatever country is in the ascendent at any given time often swamps the local people in far away places.  From Persia to Greece, from Rome to  when the UK controlled an empire upon which the sun never set.  

 

This thread - the anger I read - has been an eye opener for me.  

 

I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and a Very Happy New Year.

Living here, it is certainly not an eye opener for me, Anjuli.  I think your email is well considered and well put.  Wishing you a very Merry Christmas as well.

[AnneMarriott]

What's happening with your nativity play, Anne? Don't tell me it's got lobsters and octopi like in Love Actually...

Well no seafood as far as I know, but a spider, certainly.  But that is pretty harmless - I'm sure there must have been spiders in the stables!  It's the introduction of characters like Wayne Rooney (footballer), and having the angels and shepherds doing Bollywood-style song and dance routines that I find inappropriate. I wouldn't expect to see a small Imran Khan singing Away in a Manger in a Pakistani children's play, either.  On the politically correct side, the headmistress of an infant school appeared on one of those early morning news shows informing us that 'last year our Nativity play was "Midwife Crisis" in which the midwife who delivered the baby (Jesus) was the star of the show'.  It seemed wrong on so many fronts!  

[AnneMarriott]

Multinational corporations come from many countries - including the UK - and they buy out the small local shops here, too.

 

Nativity scenes are under assault here, too.

 

Political correctness is striking out against religion and other customs and traditions here, too.

 

Whatever country is in the ascendent at any given time often swamps the local people in far away places.  From Persia to Greece, from Rome to  when the UK controlled an empire upon which the sun never set.  

 

This thread - the anger I read - has been an eye opener for me.  

 

I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and a Very Happy New Year.

 

 

What's happening with your nativity play, Anne? Don't tell me it's got lobsters and octopi like in Love Actually...

 

Multinational corporations come from many countries - including the UK - and they buy out the small local shops here, too.

 

Nativity scenes are under assault here, too.

 

Political correctness is striking out against religion and other customs and traditions here, too.

 

Whatever country is in the ascendent at any given time often swamps the local people in far away places.  From Persia to Greece, from Rome to  when the UK controlled an empire upon which the sun never set.  

 

This thread - the anger I read - has been an eye opener for me.  

 

I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and a Very Happy New Year.

You are right, of course, Anjuli.  But I maintain that some other customs, traditions and even religions are neither enriching or worthwhile.  I'm thinking of the Indian caste system with the Untouchables at the bottom of the pile, the demands for dowry and the awful fate of some brides whose families are unable to meet the demands, female genital mutilation, the denial of education to girls, some aspects of Sharia Law ... Of course fast food, coffee shops, proms and the rest of it are small beer by comparison, but they are really not enriching as far as I am concerned.

[AnneMarriott]

P.S.  Having completely messed up my attempt at multiquoting, I should like to say thanks for the seasonal good wishes, Anjuli!

[sarahw]

My niece in the UK had a mortar board and gown WHEN SHE LEFT NURSERY!!!

[Melody]

Oh good grief. That really cheapens the effort of students getting university degrees.

 

Do they play "Land of Hope and Glory" at these "graduation" ceremonies like they do over here?

[Fonty]

What on earth do these head teachers think they doing?  What is wrong with the simple, traditional Nativity play?  A lovely story and a part for everyone.  I don't think people were any more religious when I was at school than they are now, but it was seen as  being part of our culture and heritage.  As was singing a hymn during morning assembly. 

 

I could just about understand it if the school was in an Inner London borough, where 98% of the pupils are non white and from a different religious background.  But even then, shouldn't it be part of Comparative Religious Studies, or whatever fancy name they give the subject now?

[AnneMarriott]

My niece in the UK had a mortar board and gown WHEN SHE LEFT NURSERY!!!

AAAAAGH! 

[Lisa O`Brien]

My niece in the UK had a mortar board and gown WHEN SHE LEFT NURSERY!!!

Same here with my son. When he "Graduated" from Nursery at almost 5 they all had a Graduation Ceremony,complete with mortar board ,gown and certificate.!!

[alison]

Please stop. I'm feeling the need for a "Vomit" button in addition to the "Like" button!

[Jan McNulty]

Well according to an email I received first thing this morning today is PANIC SATURDAY!!!

 

Not that I am panicking as I am currently sat on a train on my way to London for the Don Q matinee!!

[Fiz]

Enjoy! I am cooking later and wrapping presents. I am in control this year!

[Lisa O`Brien]

Enjoy Janet. I`ve absolutely no wrapping to do this year. Sean wanted an XBOX One,and I gave him the money[£350.00 for God`s sake] and he bought his own in town last week. He knows,because he turns 18 in February,this expensive Christmas present is the last one he will ever get. He`s had plenty of the Playstation 1 and 2`s and X Boxes over the years from the age of about 8 onwards. Next year,as an adult he can have some aftershave and maybe a bit of clothing or whatever he wants. But if he wants one of these fancy consoles in future,he can wait until he is in employment and buy his own. Incidentally,a friend of mine,her 9 year old daughter,was looking through the Argos catalogue,ticking off everything she wants.She won`t get it ALL of course. But her mother on Facebook yesterday told me that as well as the dolls and things from Argos ,her NINE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WANTS A TRAINING BRA.!!  Don`t know if her mother is going to be silly enough to actually get her one or not. But I was just shocked that a little girl would want something like that.

Edited December 20, 2014 by thequays

[Fiz]

I expect all her friends have one. ;(

[Lisa O`Brien]

I expect all her friends have one. ;(

Ye Gods.!! Where has innocence gone to?

[Fonty]

This is another major grumble of mine.  For goodness sake, what is it with these underwear companies, that they manufacture anything bra like that would fit or be suitable for a 9 year old?  If the poor girl actually does need a bra, then her mother should take her to a shop and get her properly fitted. 

 

It is nearly as bad as bikinis for little girls.  I have seen so many tiny tots kitted out in utterly unsuitable swimwear, and it makes me so cross.  Little girls should be able to run around and enjoy themselves in proper swimsuits or shorts, not worrying about losing their flimsy tops or bottoms on the beach or at the outdoor swimming pool. 

[Fiz]

Oh, I so agree with you, Fonty! It is one of my bugbears too.

[taxi4ballet]

Little girls want bras now because all the pop videos feature the singer and dancers in a bra-and-knicker combo!