Jump to content

Dance and Drama Awards


Millie3

Recommended Posts

Angela,an e-petition would be a very good idea.I often sign for worthy causes. Would be concerned though,just how much support for dance and drama students there would be in the wider community; what with people being made redundant,and struggling generally.There was a short clip on the RBS on Youtube a few years ago.Someone commented,"spoilt rich bitches".I contacted her,explaining that no-one is turned away through lack of financial means,and she replied she was surprised to hear this,and she had no idea. What I`m trying to say,is,sadly classical ballet is still seen as an elite activity for a priviledged few,and I therefore don`t know how much sympathy people would have to the plight of ballet students .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 596
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

I would definately support a petition and would also write in support if I knew it was going to be read by right people.

 

Even under old DaDa rules we would have struggled but our ds was fortunate to keep his mds until he graduated.

 

He is now in work, and unlikely to be claimimg any benefits at all for at least the forseeable future so  will not be a drain on the government. It makes me very sad to know that many talented youngsters will be denied this chance to ultimately be independant and self sufficient.  Yes I know ds is on a low wage but right now its enough for his needs and he even has savings! So he has totally vindicated being awarded mds at 11.

 

Surely the government would be far better off helping to nurture talent (whatever that might be) so that more young people got jobs and had worthwhile careers than cutting off support when its most needed.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dare I mention the Music schools whose students at 3 of the schools appear to stay til 18 on MDS then continue studying at Uni. Just looked at the fees at these schools one of them is over 40,000 a year.  It also appears that in the music schools they can receive MDS at 8.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps the government has been looking into where graduating students go when they have finished their courses. Are they thinking that they don't want to fund training for people who don't then get a job in the UK and have to leave the country to work abroad? Just a thought...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can I make another suggestion? I have always found contributors on here to be articulate and knowledgeable and so I was wondering if someone might be willing to write a template letter so that anyone who wishes could print it off and send to their own local MP - apologies moderators if this is not an appropriate suggestion. I was just thinking that lots of people might support the idea but maybe wouldn't get round to writing their own letter (or wouldn't know quite how to phrase it) Just a thought...

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh dear   :angry:

 

Like many other families just over the £70,000 income bracket we've calculated that we would be better off if I give up my job!  How ridiculous!  No way we can afford a place at a school offering a Dada now.

 

Many of those lovely ds and dds who have worked so hard to gain a place at a funding audition, will now have their hopes dashed!   I really hope this is sorted out quickly and a "fair" sliding scale introduced. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Oh my goodness!! Having looked at the figures it will be impossible for parents who earn around the 70,000 mark to afford this. After tax of approx 20,000 and fees of 32,000, a family will need to survive on 18,000 a year to put a roof over their other children's heads, pay all bills and eat!! I'm not sure who was doing the sums but that seems utterly ridiculous! It doesn't affect my DD as she is already vocational but now it will be so sad to think that so much talent may not come to fruition because of funding issues - how very very sad. Sadly it's the middle earners in this country who always pay both ways :(:(

A lot of families have to survive on £18,000 a year unfortunately as that's all they earn in total! They are not in the position of sending their children to dance lessons at all I wouldn't have thought. I agree it is unfortunate but sometimes life just works out that way!

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to get into a discussion about how difficult it is to manage on a low income. If someone earns £18k then they will get a help in terms of other benefits that they can claim such as working tax credits, child benefit etc. and of course FREE DaDa training, which aren't available to those on higher incomes. This would be fine if I wasn't potentially faced with a bill of £26k

 

If the government wants me to sell my very modest house, move into council funded accommodation and claim benefits to enable my DD to train then that is going to cost a lot more than making the tables fair and proportional. Looking at the figures again, even with some funding it will make life very difficult for anyone earning over £40k

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess what I mean is you have to cut your cloth so to speak. I would love both our girls to go to Uni but it may not be financially possible (it think we are on the £45k combined salary bracket). So we may have to rethink. We cannot afford, even with funding, to send our kids to a vocational school (struggle a bit with paying for the JA place tbh!) but that's life. I'd like a foreign holiday each year and I'd like a bigger house. It's a shame but that's not what's available to me so we go camping or not at all. If like to be 5'10" but I was only given a 5' stature! I do agree its a shame if very talented children's parents cannot 'afford' to send their kids to vocational school but you have to be realistic. Or you can spend your life thinking 'its not fair'. Sometimes we forget how lucky we are as I really wouldn't want to be managing on £18,000 even with funding and benefits etc.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been reading this thread and am in the early stages of digesting this but I have a question and a thought.

Question - are DADAs generally just for two years- 6th form funding?

For anyone who earns just over £70k, it clearly is going to be better to go part time or have one partner give up work, which is daft.  However, before doing so, is it worth seeing whether just increasing pension contributions makes a difference?  I don't know if this works, but worth a thought!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Elosie - of course your children can go to uni because they will be able to access student loans - something that is unavailable for 6th form dance training unless you are lucky enough to get accepted to Central. 

 

To be honest, your cavalier attitude to this when you are not currently affected by it is very unhelpful. Perhaps if you had made the sacrifices you talk about for the last 5 years to afford an MDS place, only to find that those 5 years might now be in vain because 6th form training is completely unaffordable and out of reach, you might feel differently. Don't forget this situation has been changed this year and was unforeseeable - 'cutting cloth' with 6 months to go may be undoable, particularly with houses to sell etc.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that this is a very contentious issue right now, but ribbons I completely agree with you, who could cut their cloth with just 6 months notice!! Although I am not affected by this as my DD started her training in September, I am a dance professional and extremely concerned about what the future holds for young dancers, going forward. My husband and I would have been totally affected by this change and would not have been sending DD away on a DaDa. I work a 90 hour week and don't go on holiday every year or live in a big house to downsize and yet we both work full time and some. We have a good old batch of qualifications, including a first class science degree and we would have hit that magic 70k and gone just over but would no way have been able to afford the 32,00 required for some of the schools. One of us would have needed to give up our job to consider this as it would have been the only way. I think I mentioned in another thread about the funding at Central being a far better option. I can honestly say as my DD has tried out both Dada and student loan that the least impacting upon us and our income is by far the student loan, no comparison.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sadly, I think taxi4ballet has hit the nail on the head.  The government did look at where graduates of schools were going as part of the funding review, and the harsh reality is that classical jobs are few and far between.  So I imagine the reasoning is, why fund more places than there are jobs?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lets not make this personal people.  Obviously some people are more affected by this DADA change than others - especially with such short notice as for many people it is directly and immediately affecting the childs chances of training this coming September.  We are all agreed that the new DADA sliding scale is not really a sliding scale at all and totally unfair, especially on those with family incomes of over £70k.  Family income in any case does not really reflect disposable income.  Wages and house prices/general cost of living does vary considerably around the country and what might be considered a decent wage in one place might be a poor one elsewhere. Some facts to remember : the national average wage (Office of National Statistics Nov 2012) is £26,500.  The threshold for higher tax bracket is £34,370.  Those are the types of figures the government is working off.  I am not saying this is right.  I do not agree with what has been introduced.  I'm not sure either it is to do with jobs at the end of training, not if funding is still the same number of DADA places as before.  But it is clear from the response passed onto us by our MP last year and what other people have posted on here, that training at 16 is seen as choosing to take your child out of the state system and into private education and a complete lack of understanding of the training needed to become a professional ballet dancer and the lack of other options in this country available to us.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The major problem does indeed seem to be the lack of a proper sliding scale - exactly the same problem occurs in completely different areas of taxation.  Stamp duty on sale of houses and inheritance tax both go from zero to a large amount in one step.  I am sure others can think of different examples.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been reading this thread and am in the early stages of digesting this but I have a question and a thought.

Question - are DADAs generally just for two years- 6th form funding?

For anyone who earns just over £70k, it clearly is going to be better to go part time or have one partner give up work, which is daft.  However, before doing so, is it worth seeing whether just increasing pension contributions makes a difference?  I don't know if this works, but worth a thought!

I would be interested in this too Suzyszoo.  Does anyone know how pensions contributions affect the 'family income' you need to submit into the current MDS and DaDa system?

 

Also, we would have an issue around self-employment.  Our situation would currently take us over the 70k band and therefore impossible but what if one year my husbands earnings brought our total income lower than 70k and another year took it over?  Would we have to pay 7k and then potentially 20-30k the following year?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely let's not make this personal. Everybody has their own problems; at the higher end of income it's obviously going to be difficult or impossible to fund 6th form if your income is over the £70k threshold - but in the years leading up to 6th form it may be that you have been able to fund enough quality training hours, private lower school, and holiday courses/summer schools without too much worry.

 

At the middle-lower income end you don't have as much worry about funding 6th form, but you may have had a huge struggle to fund enough quality training at Lower School age. Many people in this bracket are too "wealthy" to get any help in the form of benefits, but nowhere near wealthy enough to fund all the training and holiday courses required.

 

I don't think it's easy or stress free for anyone (except multi-millionaires!) so there's no point trying to decide who has the worse deal. Apart from anything else it's not going to change that threshold!

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually I don't think the schools will do anything.  So long as they are overwhelmed by applicants for each place, they know they will be able to fill the places.  Candidates turn down offers for a variety of reasons, e.g. preferred another offer, given more funding elsewhere, not offered funding at all, not offered enough funding for their families circumstances,  etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well they would be fairly shortsighted if they did nothing as this reduces their choice of talent and therefore potentially makes them less successful. I have heard that RBS has worked very hard with the Education ministers to try to ensure the future of MDS funding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Hello!

 

I've started the petition "Council for Dance, Education and

Training: Reconsider the changes to Dada funding and make the sliding

scales fairer." and need your help to get it off the ground.

 

Will you take 30 seconds to sign it right now? Here's the link:

 

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/council-for-dance-education-and-training-reconsider-the-changes-to-dada-funding-and-make-the-sliding-scales-fairer

 

Here's why it's important:

 

There is no state provision for specialist Classical Ballet

or Musical Theatre training in the UK. Currently training for Ballet and

Performing Arts is only accessible to those on very low incomes or very

high incomes making training impossible to most families in the UK.

 

 

You can sign my petition by clicking here.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aside from the DADA issues I would like to know how anyone has managed the maintenance side of sixth form. Having tried to search last night it appears because of age student can't apply for any help but even if parents on lowest income the DADA maintenance allowance is really not going to make any impression on living costs.

 

Notice on the RBS website it lists yearly 6th form fees of approx £18,000, maintenance/boarding £10,000 and then boarding £5 -6000 (don't understand why boarding listed twice?). ENBS fees currently £17,000 but obviously would have to arrange own accommodation, food etc - not cheap in London. Elmhurst for 2011/12 quotes termly 6th form fees of £8300. I am assuming this is the fee for 6.1 boarding with food - how much is it for subsequent years when the boarding house is no longer available and you are funding own accommodation etc?

 

I know Central course means you can apply for student loan to cover fees - can you also apply for maintenance grant to help cover living costs?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great stuff Jaylou62! I'm not trying to be controversial but Is the Dance School of Scotland still free for those living in/born in Scotland (I don't know the exact requirements) and does it have both lower and upper school students? There was a recent discussion on the forum about it.

 

It is manifestly inequitable to have such a punitive DADA system operating in England when another part of the UK does have a state school training talented dance students - but only those resident in/born in Scotland. In fact it is racist and perhaps something for the seemingly rabid human rights lawyers to get their teeth into. Can you imagine the furore if there was a dance school offering state funded training in England - but only to those born in/resident in England?!

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My daughter is at Central, the maintenance does not cover the full cost of living in London. We top hers up by £900 for accomadation plus the cost of food and living. So basicaly we fork out an extra £400 a month for food, tube pass etc.

 

I think a lot of our students will be going abroad so sadly we will lose home grown talent, and we will recieve more foreign students who will be able to afford our fees.

 

I have a feeling with this government DADA's and such like will be one of the items last on their list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ribbons - this assumes that there is a sharp gradient in talent.  However, there are so many well trained, talented students looking for places, that at the top levels, i.e. those offered places and those on the waiting lists, there is very little difference.

 

With regard to Scottish training being free for those in Scotland - this already happens with University fees.  It is free for Scottish residents and everyone else in EU, but not for English students who pay substantial fees.  A test case was taken to court as it discriminates against English students, but it failed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think I was being cavalier at all merely stating a view point which after all is what a forum is all about. We considered vocational school for my DD but have discounted it because we wouldn't be able to afford it. It's a shame but there you are. There maybe other options available in the future. Or not. I do have every sympathy for you all but was trying to look at it from a different perspective. I do feel on this forum that you are not allowed to have a view point unless it is the same as everyone else's. I have paid my £10 to support the forum just like everyone else so don't expect to be made to feel in the wrong. Sorry to have offended anyone as it wasn't my intention!

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...