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Class size at summer schools and vocational 6th forms

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Guest Autumn days

My dd has recently done a summer school and was quite surprised that there were about 25 students in each class. She is used to being with a much smaller number and felt that it was harder to be noticed with so many of them.

 

What is the norm for class sizes at summer schools and, more importantly, in the vocational 6th forms at the more classically oriented schools? 

 

Maybe this is something that she will have to get used to if she is lucky enough to get a full time place?

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Re: elmhurst, not sure actual numbers yet but DD said she was in the 'biggest group'...will get more detail I hope tonight.

I think at ENB spring course there were about 20 in a group.

My dd is regularly/normally  in classes that have over 20 dancers (in a small studio) but she is not at vocational school. 

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For full time students, RBS Upper School, approx 15 girls and 15 boys each year group and ENBS, approx 12 girls and 12 boys per year group, sorry don't know about any of the other schools, but I'm sure that the knowledgeable people on this forum can help.  LTD

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My friends DD has just done the YBSS and although both were very happy with the teaching and course in general etc my friend herself thought that some of the A group sizes there were getting rather large.....definitely MORE than 20 in the A2 group there anyway.

 

I would imagine that for most of the students whether vocational or not the numbers in the group will have been larger than they were used to. My own preference would be for no group to have more than 20 max especially for students still training etc. I don't think summer school should start becoming like Pineapple studios!!!

However full time training should be less I think......about 16 max?

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At YBSS my DD was in week 1 group A2 - there were 37 in the class age 13 to 16. In contrast at Ballet West there were 9 in the younger group - under 14 and about 10 in the older group ,the majority of whom were Ballet West's vocational students.

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Gosh this is the same week and group as my friends DD. 37!! Didn't realise there were that many. Inspite of the excellent teaching I think this is too many especially as parents are paying no small fee for these summer schools.

 

Somebody has to decide when enough is enough or employ more teachers!!

 

37 is large for an adult intermediate/advanced or professional class and I certainly avoid those size classes when am up in London which is why I like London Russian who are very good at saying this class is now full!! and other teachers who set an upper limit. In London Russian have never been with more than 14 so far though not sure what their actual upper limit is.

In one of my BBO classes the class is full when 10 have registered!

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I agree that I was surpised at the size of the A2 class at YBSS, but equally surrised how Mr Ramos was able to give so many individual corrections even during the barre work. Once the students were split into groups for the centre work it seemed they had more attention. Its not unknown for classes at vocational school to be around 20 students for the ladies. I personally think its too many, but apparently they need to fill the places to make the courses finacially viable. For some its motivational, for others its disheartening......

 

NL

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At the SIBA summer intensive my son has just finished, classes varied between 30 for the general daily class to 1 for individual solo coaching. Other classes varied as the school is heavily weighted towards performing for a final series of shows. So if you were in a particular dance of 6 people, then the class was 6 people. If it was a dance for 12, then 12 it was.

 

For the rehearsal classes, there could also be more than 2 or 3 teachers each time. I think the whole ethos is slightly different to that of a 'normal' UK summer school. As is the time taken, which is 4 weeks. The aim of the school is to replicate the daily life of a company, which means class sizes and teachers vary.

 

Looking 'outside the box' is a phrase I hate, but SIBA is indeed outside the normal summer school/intensive box.

 

P.s it is in Salzburg, which is lovely!

Edited by Stirrups36
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There was well over 30 in A1 at Ybss also. And yet dd still felt like the classes were amazing and that she was pushed far more then expected. The ballet classes seemed to be presented more along lines of a company class. So not the place to go if you need individual attention but a great set of teachers if you can accept the class size.

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Some Adults (non professionals) like the larger classes so they can hide!! So nobody will notice if they miss some section out(usually the grand allegro) this is what I'm told in changing rooms etc!!

 

But if the class gets much more than 30 it is also harder to divide into reasonably sized groups without too much standing around etc . Three smaller groups of 10 just about works but once you are into four groups not so good(waiting around) or you go with three groups with too many people in if more than 30!

Also some teachers are much better at dividing the class into groups......it shouldn't be that difficult.....but some avoid the issue by saying to a room full of thirty plus people " just get into three groups " Ha-ha!!

Slightly off the vocational route here but similar probs I should think.

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My dd says that she doesn't mind how many are in the class as along as there is enough room for everyone at the barre, so they don't get kicked during grands battements!

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Guest Autumn days

It looks like 25 for a summer school is not unusual, then  :o

 

I guess that if the teacher is just taking them through their paces then that is fine but it must be hard to give any degree of personal correction to that number - and as for 37, that must make it almost impossible!!

 

I'm glad to hear that the classes in the schools sound a bit smaller but then that opens up other concerns. Do ENBS really only take 12 each of girls and boys each year or is there more than one class per year group?

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It looks like 25 for a summer school is not unusual, then  :o

 

I guess that if the teacher is just taking them through their paces then that is fine but it must be hard to give any degree of personal correction to that number - and as for 37, that must make it almost impossible!!

 

I'm glad to hear that the classes in the schools sound a bit smaller but then that opens up other concerns. Do ENBS really only take 12 each of girls and boys each year or is there more than one class per year group?

 

mum in a spin,  last year's 1st year at ENBS had 12 girls and 12 boys in total.  Some of the other years vary, but only slightly.  LTD 

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If the studio is big and the students are disciplined and hard-working, then large numbers are manageable.  I have had 20+ in a group and also 8/9 in one class - I have to say that I prefer something in the middle - 12 to 15 - so that I have three rows with 4 or 5 in a row.  37 is a huge amount of bodies and although, in the class at YBSS that I watched, I thought they all worked very well and they were divided up so that they had room, it did make it a bit impersonal.  I know they want and need to take as many as they can, but there should be a limit of 30 I think.

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Re: elmhurst, not sure actual numbers yet but DD said she was in the 'biggest group'...will get more detail I hope tonight.

I think at ENB spring course there were about 20 in a group.

My dd is regularly/normally  in classes that have over 20 dancers (in a small studio) but she is not at vocational school. 

I have heard that Elmhurst has quite a few big groups and some have 20 all year round.

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Looking at Elmhurst vocational full time 6th form numbers for 2012-13 6:1 25 6:2 18 6:3 21 total numbers mixed men and women.In the lower school the largest was year 10 with 26 and the smallest year 8 with 21 ( but only 4 boys).

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At Rambert, current first years total 46. 

 

28 ladies, 18 men. For Ballet, Coaching etc the ladies are in 2 classes of 14 in each. For Pas de deux, Contemporary, Choreography etc the two classes become mixed with 9 men and 14 ladies.

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We were surprised at the class sizes in vocational school. We got the impression it would be about 12, and although it started that way, numbers rapidly rose to 19 for the girls. Saturday RAD classes were even bigger - the funny thing was that when my dd left, she was lucky enough to be taught by the same teacher that did the RAD voc school classes - except this time there were only 12 in the class! Now 6!

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At Rambert, current first years total 46. 

 

28 ladies, 18 men. For Ballet, Coaching etc the ladies are in 2 classes of 14 in each. For Pas de deux, Contemporary, Choreography etc the two classes become mixed with 9 men and 14 ladies.

 

I heard that there are 57 students just gone into the current first year at Rambert from a friend who's DD has just started there?

 

I also heard that there are around 45 at Central with 26 in the girls class.

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ENBS current 1st Year intake is 16 girls and 11 boys, 2nd year is 16 girls and 16 boys.  The 2nd year has increased by 4 girls and 4 boys from September 2013 and the original intake was 12 girls and 12 boys.  I also believe that Elmhurst current 6:2 has 20 girls and only 4 boys.

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I heard that there are 57 students just gone into the current first year at Rambert from a friend who's DD has just started there?

 

I also heard that there are around 45 at Central with 26 in the girls class.

As far as Rambert is concerned, there are 46 on the class lists for this new intake (my dd has just started there this year.)

The head says they keep the school total to around the 100 mark, and that this year is an exceptionally big intake which I'm guessing means there are less 2nd and 3rd years around. It's not uncommon for students to leave or change schools.

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Rambert started with over 40 students two years ago but this figure had decreased a lot by the end of first year for one reason or another. My DS moved from Rambert to Central during first year. The number there was 42 but again has decreased to low 30's by third year - don't know the exact number. I think this happens in all courses whatever the discilpline. Young people change their minds on what they want to do with their lives. I have never heard my DS complain at either school about it feeling too busy.

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Guest Autumn days

Oh my, some of the schools do have a lot of students! There is good and bad in this in that there is more chance of getting a school place and less chance of getting a job!!

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There seems to be less chance of every young person....or should I just say everybody...getting a job today!

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