Jan McNulty Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Did Alina Cojocaru not also pull out of a Swan Lake or equivalent at ABT recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I have no reason to disbelieve Johan and all I can say is it doesn't reflect well on Royal Ballet management. Before judging RB Management one must look at both sides of the coin. Management must have had a very good reason to do so. We've only "heard" Johan's side of the story. As Aileen said, A&J got their big farewell and Thank You party at the ROH. Imagine the pressure they have put Management under in Tokyo: many disappointed Japanese fans, putting huge demands on the remaining Principals who have to replace them ( ROH website shows there are 5 SL performances: 2 on Friday, two on Saturday and 1 on Sunday. They'd never dance two SL's in one day at Covent Garden. It is not the first time A. (& J.) pull out at short notice. Aren't they under contractual obligation to dance a certain amount of performances per Season (after all they both get huge salaries!!!!!). I wouldn't be too happy if I was the Manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 ....and wasn't their resignation/retirement from RB equally at short notice and rather abrupt? London fans (or I) only knew about it last week of Season; if I remember well just a few days before their last Covent Garden performance. I love A&J, Alina being one of my long time favourites but I have been disappointed over the past Season with her (or both of them) pulling out of performances after tickets had been sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 ROH website shows there are 5 SL performances: 2 on Friday, two on Saturday and 1 on Sunday. They'd never dance two SL's in one day at Covent Garden. Maybe you meant to say that they'd never dance two Swan Lakes in one day on two consecutive days? They often do two in a day at the ROH (i.e. a Saturday matinée + an evening performance) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 On a slightly different note but nevertheless relevant IMO ...and IF I was a Principal I wouldn't be too pleased having to dance a double day/extra unscheduled performance to replace them (and not getting paid any extra I assume!), whilst the one who pulls out does get paid for not dancing. Thank goodness I am not a dancer, I'll stick to watching them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Janet, Alina did pull out of some performances with ABT recently which I thought did not bode well for her Tokyo performances. She's scheduled for several performances in Europe over the summer and I wouldn't be surprised if she pulled out of those as well. It's clear that her withdrawal from performances is not just related to Johan's continuing injury; she must still be injured or possibly she has some other chronic health problem. Clearly, pulling out of so many performances at short notice, even for good reasons, is not going to do Alina's reputation for reliability much good which may make companies reluctant to engage her as a guest in the future. I still feel that there is something odd about the whole business of Alina and Johan's departure from the RB. As others have said, their withdrawal from their performance of Swan Lake must be creating enormous problems for the RB management. A decision to replace Alina and Johan should probably have been made much earlier. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I have found Johan's FB statement (as read in Post 95) totally misplaced and very self-centered. They got their farewell in London and Management in Tokyo must have had far more pressing issues to deal with than hugging him again! Aileen, I feel there is something very odd indeed about the whole A&J business and the public is not getting the true picture therefore Management should not be judged so unfairly. They'll be far too dignified to go into details or make a public statement about the truth I think. Rant over 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I found the Johan's words as quoted from the Facebook page most sad. I would have thought such a statement might best have been made with a little more time for relection. As it is, it remains now but a matter of record for posterity. Surely (well, I hope) when all is said and finally done it is the memory of their considerable artistry ON the stage that will endure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Well, as I pointed out, it was on a *private* Facebook page and therefore presumably never intended for public consumption. I'm sure we all have ideas about the situation here, and are putting 2 and 2 together and making anything from 1 to 10 - including 4, probably - but I don't think that this level of public speculation is really very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I'm sorry Alison but nothing on Facebook (or Twitter) is really private. If you want something kept private don't post it on Facebook - there's no agreement that the information will not be passed onto others. Rants are best kept verbal rather than posted on social media! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I'm sorry Alison but nothing on Facebook (or Twitter) is really private. If you want something kept private don't post it on Facebook - there's no agreement that the information will not be passed onto others. I don't see it as simply as this at all. I agree that what you put on Facebook might well circulate beyond those you have as Friends - it's gossip, rather like the "have you heard..." conversations when we meet others or email friends on something. However I think it's a very different thing to openly publish to all words that were never intended for the audience. I think that is deplorable and sad. Kobborg has a website (although not sure if it is working at the moment) and is perfectly capable of putting out messages to the public. He didn't. I understand many others don't see the distinction - a shame. The words are out there now and my feeling is that this is not the best way to demonstrate to boards and companies that you seek to be an artistic director. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Johan Kobborg has, like many much younger people up and down the country, failed to distinguish between what can be posted on social media and what is and should be kept private. He's old enough to know better. It might be regrettable that someone has repeated verbatim something which he has posted on Facebook but he shouldn't have posted his 'rant' in the first place. He should have expressed his disappointment to Alina and a few close friends and left it at that, and the public would have been none the wiser. Of course, there is an alternative interpretation: rather than wanting his thoughts to be kept private it's quite possible that he wanted them to reach the ears of K O'H. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aruna S Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I suppose this is a textbook example of the utility of the old "count to ten before you speak" maxim in today's world where things can flash around the world in a few seconds. A self-imposed cooling off period before saying or doing anything when one is upset can save a lot of embarrassment later. I know I'm very grateful that there was no Facebook or Twitter when I was growing up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayerling79 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I am not sure there is a point in saying he should or shouldn't have done this or that. He obviously had heavy feelings weighing on his heart and at that particular moment, had to express his pain by which ever mean, words or action. Being "lost" in translation in Tokyo may have also triggered the bold cry for support and help, and the urge to take the weight off his chest. Johan and Alina are not my all time favourite dancers but RARELY have i felt so MOVED in their PRESENCE. They breathe such a HUMBLE and GOOD-HEARTED VIBE around them that I could only fall at once for them. I wish them the best in the world and hope to see them accomplish so many beautiful things to come in the world of dance. BLESS THEM 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annamicro Posted September 15, 2013 Share Posted September 15, 2013 Did Alina Cojocaru not also pull out of a Swan Lake or equivalent at ABT recently? I report what I wrote in the thread about Romeo and Juliet in Rome: "Cojocaru said [on the 2nd of August] to have been uncertain till the very last moment if she was dancing or not because she was “rehearsing with Federico in Tokyo in trainers”, having clearly not yet fully or enough confidently recovered from her fracture: I cannot imagine who in the Royal Ballet was thinking that she would have danced the much more demanding for her foot Swan lake planned on the 12th of July. The withdrawal was announced only on the 9th, I think, but I suppose it’s something similar to her withdrawal from ABT Sleeping Beauty, announced to the audience weeks after the Swan Lake one, even if Alina was talking openly and publically about that in London on the 5th of June." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aruna S Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 An interview in today's Telegraph sheds some more light : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/dance/10371161/Alina-Cojocaru-interview-Ill-always-be-grateful-even-for-the-lies.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Or obfuscates? So, as I suspected, Cojocaru definitely knew she was leaving well before the last Mayerling performance. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrischris Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Would be interesting to hear Mason's views 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 An interview in today's Telegraph sheds some more light : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/dance/10371161/Alina-Cojocaru-interview-Ill-always-be-grateful-even-for-the-lies.html The important thing for me in this interview is that it shed the light, in fact clearly explained, WHY the Royal Ballet lost this unique artist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I don't think it explains it at all. Even if what she says is completely true, Monica Mason retired over a year ago! Why not stay and give the new blood a chance? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 It probably takes a while for the "new blood" to really take effect on the Company and I suppose she's not getting any younger!! Sometimes a momentum of energy builds up to take some different direction and you just have to go with it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annamicro Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I don't think it explains it at all. Even if what she says is completely true, Monica Mason retired over a year ago! Why not stay and give the new blood a chance? Sleeping Beauty episode happened in March 2011, that means that more than one chance was given to the old and new blood. I agree that the interview doesn't explain it completely and actually says much less than was said in more or less public occasions. It seems that the decision was communicated only few days before Mayerling, but I cannot believe that the management wasn't expecting her to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Well, they should certainly have had their suspicions if they'd been following Johan's Twitter account. But then, I don't suppose management tend to do things like that. As with many such occurrences, I'd guess it was probably something like six of one and half-a-dozen of the other: I'm sure the RB's view would have been rather different. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annamicro Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Well, they should certainly have had their suspicions if they'd been following Johan's Twitter account. But then, I don't suppose management tend to do things like that. As with many such occurrences, I'd guess it was probably something like six of one and half-a-dozen of the other: I'm sure the RB's view would have been rather different. Johan's Twitter account??? I was talking of Cojocaru and REAL LIFE: are we forgetting that this strange thing exists? And I'm afraid that managements "tend to do thing like that": my company has a policy about social network and I know that, not surprisingly and with plenty of rights, RB one do it . But, as I wrote I was thinking to people working together in the same building or at least meeting in corridors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Alina's 23 performances this season with Hamburg Ballet have been referred to on another thread. She is also dancing with ABT next summer: May 24th - La Bayadere; June 21st - Giselle; June 27th Swan Lake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) Having just read the link to Alina's interview, I wonder what on earth the Royal Ballet "style" is supposed to be? A very odd comment to put in a newspaper article. Edited October 12, 2013 by Fonteyn22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annamicro Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Having just read the link to Alina's interview, I wonder what on earth the Royal Ballet "style" is supposed to be? A very odd comment to put in a newspaper article. "Mason told Cojocaru her style was no longer “Royal Ballet style” and she did not want her as Aurora in the autumn run of The Sleeping Beauty" is not a comment nor an opinion, it's a fact. Luke Jennings (dance critic of The Observer) is asking more ore less your same question on Twitter: "If Cojocaru's dancing was "not Royal Ballet style", who's was, exactly?" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmendrick Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 This whole thing seems very strange. I'd like to hear the RB's side of the story but I don't think that'll ever happen. The interviews do seem to suggest that this move was already in motion well before it was announced which seems strange and unfair to the fans who had no chance to get tickets to see them one last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 "Mason told Cojocaru her style was no longer “Royal Ballet style” and she did not want her as Aurora in the autumn run of The Sleeping Beauty" is not a comment nor an opinion, it's a fact. I look forward to seeing the evidence that proves this "fact". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annamicro Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 This whole thing seems very strange. I'd like to hear the RB's side of the story but I don't think that'll ever happen. The interviews do seem to suggest that this move was already in motion well before it was announced which seems strange and unfair to the fans who had no chance to get tickets to see them one last time. Pardon? Cojocaru is still alive and is dancing on Thursday in Milton Keynes and many times in London in the next few months.I think every real "fan" was already having a ticket for the last Mayerling of Cojocaru and Kobborg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Pardon? Cojocaru is still alive and is dancing on Thursday in Milton Keynes and many times in London in the next few months. I think every real "fan" was already having a ticket for the last Mayerling of Cojocaru and Kobborg. Surely not every "real fan" would be able to get a ticket for many reasons eg - couldn't go that night, couldn't afford ticket, no tickets available......... Ms Cojocaru may be dancing in MK and beyond with ENB but I don't see Mr Kobborg listed. Perhaps they will be dancing elsewhere together? No one will ever know the true story. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annamicro Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I look forward to seeing the evidence that proves this "fact". This is very offensive and quite squalid. The humiliation she had from Mason wasn’t enough: Cojocaru has also to know to be considered a liar by Mr Bangorballettboy. As for me, I knew about that, exactly in the same terms, on the 12th of March 2011, Saturday afternoon, in a very crowded James Street and I still trust to the sincerity of Alina’s tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mijosh Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Forgive my cynicism,but I smell "Svengali" Kobborg's fingers all over that interview. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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