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Disrespecting Dancers

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10 hours ago, Josephine said:

 

Gary Avis has posted on his own website his dates for Tybalt and Lord Capulet.

Drat. I'm seeing 4 performances & he's not scheduled for Tybalt in any of them. I was really hoping I'd get to see him at least once but no.

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Interesting - he's Tybalt in the Naghdi/Ball cast (which is the only cast I've booked for in which he IS Tybalt).  I'm happy that that means he gets the cinema relay, and just to be clear, he's my favourite Tybalt, but if I were somebody putting a cast together I think I'd have gone for a younger dancer to put with Naghdi and Ball.

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12 hours ago, Josephine said:

 

Gary Avis has posted on his own website his dates for Tybalt and Lord Capulet.

 

 

To save everyone looking up the website, Gary's own casting announcement is here: https://www.garyavis.com/schedule/

 

 

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34 minutes ago, RuthE said:

Interesting - he's Tybalt in the Naghdi/Ball cast (which is the only cast I've booked for in which he IS Tybalt).  I'm happy that that means he gets the cinema relay, and just to be clear, he's my favourite Tybalt, but if I were somebody putting a cast together I think I'd have gone for a younger dancer to put with Naghdi and Ball.

 

Is he already on DVD as Tybalt though?  I know he was Escalus in the 2012 live stream because Bennet Gartside was (a fantastic) Tybalt. Like his Gaoler in Manon, I do think Avis’s Tybalt should be recorded for posterity.  Such a terrific actor.

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I don't think he is, so I think it's a very good thing that it will be recorded for posterity this time (are we expecting a DVD or just a cinema relay?).  I just think sometimes I wouldn't put certain dancers together in a cast just because they are all individually excellent.  I often have the same feelings about opera casts...

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13 hours ago, Sabine0308 said:

But why is it not member of the "corps de ballet"?

 

Because the grouping may not be all members of the corps de ballet (they may be students, higher ranking dancers, extras (supernumeraries)...)

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6 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

I don't think the run is likely to result in a new DVD for reasons previously mentioned elsewhere on this forum.

 

*weeps* 

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20 hours ago, Anna C said:

My two gripes - one rather topical as we’ve been discussing the ROH website “improvements”, which is the lack of casting for any other roles than the title roles in Romeo & Juliet.  I want to know who’s dancing Tybalt and Mercutio *before* I arrive.  Ideally I’d like to know Benvolio and Lord and Lady Capulet too but that’s probably unreasonable. 

 

The other - ENB and RB’s tendency not to name individuals but to refer to them as “Artists of the Company”.  This is rather more excusable at RB when the group is very large and contains students as well as corps de ballet dancers, but I’ve seen it at ENB in the past for groups as small as six or eight dancers.   Seems really quite disrespectful to the dancers.

I remember the days when the casting info  for Romeo and Juliet used to include who was dancing Juliet, Romeo, Mercutio, Tybalt, Benvolio, Paris, Lord and Lady Capulet and the Nurse!

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26 minutes ago, Orlandau said:

I remember the days when the casting info  for Romeo and Juliet used to include who was dancing Juliet, Romeo, Mercutio, Tybalt, Benvolio, Paris, Lord and Lady Capulet and the Nurse!

Usually ending with 'Larsen'! 

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19 hours ago, Orlandau said:

 remember the days when the casting info  for Romeo and Juliet used to include who was dancing Juliet, Romeo, Mercutio, Tybalt, Benvolio, Paris, Lord and Lady Capulet and the Nurse!

Yes, I remember those days too! Always a bit tricky to make up your mind which performance/s to see, but so much more helpful than the scrappy information foisted on us now.And I think there may have been fewer cast changes, but well notified, and all in the pre web site age!

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Posted (edited)
On 21/03/2019 at 11:29, bangorballetboy said:

 

Because the grouping may not be all members of the corps de ballet (they may be students, higher ranking dancers, extras (supernumeraries)...)

I can accept this for a casting sheet but I was more referring to the ENB website and the listing of the dancers. I understand that "artist of the company" is the lowest rank, it still sounds odd for me. Not all of those have joined just recently and are still dancing like a freshman. And even then...they ARE dancers.

Edited by Sabine0308

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Today's Sunday Telegraph has a picture of Oleg Ivenko as Nureyev captioned Sergei Polunin. The same image has been in so many publications over the last week or so that there is no excuse for a sub-editor to get the name wrong.

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“Let me just stick in the name of the only Russian ballet dancer I have vaguely heard of.   Hopefully no-one will notice.  Saves me the trouble of checking that it’s right.”  

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14 hours ago, capybara said:

Today's Sunday Telegraph has a picture of Oleg Ivenko as Nureyev captioned Sergei Polunin. The same image has been in so many publications over the last week or so that there is no excuse for a sub-editor to get the name wrong.

Our local cinema initially listed  Sergei Polunin as playing Nureyev, but this has now been corrected. 

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14 hours ago, Sim said:

“Let me just stick in the name of the only Russian ballet dancer I have vaguely heard of.   Hopefully no-one will notice.  Saves me the trouble of checking that it’s right.”  

 

he is in the film as another dancer, so the name would have been in the cast listing. Still no excuse for lazy captioning though!

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Just now, zxDaveM said:

 

.................... so the name would have been in the cast listing. 

 

But anyone bothering to go to the cast list would have seen that Polunin was cast as Soloviev. And why bother to consult a cast list when you have a (wrong) name at your fingertips?

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Soloviev, Nureyev......let's call the whole thing off!

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6 hours ago, capybara said:

 

But anyone bothering to go to the cast list would have seen that Polunin was cast as Soloviev. And why bother to consult a cast list when you have a (wrong) name at your fingertips?

 

And as I said - no excuse for the tardiness

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Is not Artists of the Company simply a euphemism for generic ballet dancers who are company members.  (I haven’t heard of the term being used as a rank within the company.)

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19 minutes ago, BeaverElliot said:

Is not Artists of the Company simply a euphemism for generic ballet dancers who are company members.  (I haven’t heard of the term being used as a rank within the company.)

 

That's certainly my perception.  In (e.g.) the Royal Ballet, Artist is the lowest rank, but everybody of that rank and above is undeniably an artist...

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1 hour ago, BeaverElliot said:

Is not Artists of the Company simply a euphemism for generic ballet dancers who are company members.

 

I've always understood it as a matter of capitalisation. In the RB and some other companies 'Artist' is the entry rank, but, as you say 'artists' is a generic term though I think usually understood to not include Principal status.

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Exactly.  I thought of putting it the same way in my post above, but "Artists of the Company" is typically printed on cast lists in upper case, so the capitalisation isn't immediately evident.

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I found Kevin O’Hare’s remark towards Leanne Cope at yesterday’s Insight event “What makes a Royal Ballet Dancer” rather disrespectful. She hosted the event, and during a discussion on post RB careers he said “ Who would have thought little Leanne would go on to lead a Broadway and West End show”. It’s the use of the adjective little I object to. I know she’s very petite but this felt wrong and unnecessary.

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On 26/03/2019 at 20:36, RuthE said:

In (e.g.) the Royal Ballet, Artist is the lowest rank, but everybody of that rank and above is undeniably an artist...

 

BRB then uses "Artist" to indicate an hierarchy:

 

First Artist

Principal Artist 

 

and so on.

The entry level "Artist" is to the corps de ballet, but I really like the practice of calling even corps members "Artists". Because they are!

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11 hours ago, MrsBBB said:

I found Kevin O’Hare’s remark towards Leanne Cope at yesterday’s Insight event “What makes a Royal Ballet Dancer” rather disrespectful. She hosted the event, and during a discussion on post RB careers he said “ Who would have thought little Leanne would go on to lead a Broadway and West End show”. It’s the use of the adjective little I object to. I know she’s very petite but this felt wrong and unnecessary.

 

Hmm, the whole remark seems a bit off-colour to me.  Cope was clearly not destined for stardom as such in the RB, having been in the corps for years - perhaps in time she would have made Soloist.  But we all know that anybody who even gets as far as making it into the RB company in the first place must be in possession of ambition, tenacity and a superhuman work ethic, besides exceptional talent, and therefore probably has the potential to do something brilliant outside of the ballet world.

 

To me, that's what sounds dismissive about it.  Coming from O'Hare, whose whole world is ballet, it sounds like "well, she wasn't exceptional to us, so who would have thought she could be exceptional doing something else?"

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26 minutes ago, RuthE said:

 

Hmm, the whole remark seems a bit off-colour to me.  Cope was clearly not destined for stardom as such in the RB, having been in the corps for years - perhaps in time she would have made Soloist.  But we all know that anybody who even gets as far as making it into the RB company in the first place must be in possession of ambition, tenacity and a superhuman work ethic, besides exceptional talent, and therefore probably has the potential to do something brilliant outside of the ballet world.

 

To me, that's what sounds dismissive about it.  Coming from O'Hare, whose whole world is ballet, it sounds like "well, she wasn't exceptional to us, so who would have thought she could be exceptional doing something else?"

 

Whilst the comment was indeed somewhat belittling and inappropriate in the choice of words, it made sense in the context of the question that was being answered, which was along the lines of "can you spot star quality at a young age?"  This comment was made along with others about how people develop at different paces and top quality comes for some early on and others take time to come to their best work.  In that context, the remark was certainly not dismissive of Cope's ability (bearing in mind also that she was Liam Scarlett's muse at the time she took her sabbatical).  

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19 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

Whilst the comment was indeed somewhat belittling and inappropriate in the choice of words, it made sense in the context of the question that was being answered, which was along the lines of "can you spot star quality at a young age?"  This comment was made along with others about how people develop at different paces and top quality comes for some early on and others take time to come to their best work.  In that context, the remark was certainly not dismissive of Cope's ability (bearing in mind also that she was Liam Scarlett's muse at the time she took her sabbatical).  

 

If it makes sense in context it isn’t inappropriate or belittling. 

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3 minutes ago, Rob S said:

 

If it makes sense in context it isn’t inappropriate or belittling. 

 

It is possible to distinguish between the meaning of (or sentiment behind) a comment and the actual words used.

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1 hour ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

It is possible to distinguish between the meaning of (or sentiment behind) a comment and the actual words used.

 

Precisely, but we were not given the full context in MrsBBB's original post.

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