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6 minutes ago, zxDaveM said:

 

To be fair, some of the ‘old hands’, for want of a better expression, can bring more life experience and thoughtful development to a role - Sarah Lamb particularly good at thinking through and bringing out new subtleties in any role she does, I reckon. Though like yourself, I’m often keen to see the ‘newbies’ given a shot at major roles, roles most dancers covet as being the measure of a dancer.

 

Will be interesting to see what happens when (if...) Onegin returns, as Tatiana is usually up there as a coveted role.

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I am still waiting for your assistance/advice/suggestion how to PC phrase what I have said Bangorballetboy. 

 

Seemingly it is much easier to accuse a Forum member of being rude and give a rather "aggressive" response.

As a Moderator Bangalletboy should set the right tone and not jump on his/her high horse by making an accusation that someone is being rude when one simply states his/her opinion. 

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It can’t be that bad if your original comment has not been ‘hidden’ Xandra 🙂

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3 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

Will be interesting to see what happens when (if...) Onegin returns, as Tatiana is usually up there as a coveted role.

 

Hmm, yes, that may be one that needs a good bit of a life lived, to portray emotionally. Though I dare say most of the youngsters would give it a darn good go - still, I think it would go mostly to the more experienced Principals if it arrives next season

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8 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

Will be interesting to see what happens when (if...) Onegin returns, as Tatiana is usually up there as a coveted role.

I am hoping Naghdi/Ball will move up one from Olga/Lensky to Tatiana/Onegin, and O'Sullivan/Sambe moving into Olga/Lensky.  I would never have considered Sambe a Lensky before Saturday's tour de force as Romeo, but now my mind is totally changed.  

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10 minutes ago, zxDaveM said:

 

Hmm, yes, that may be one that needs a good bit of a life lived, to portray emotionally. Though I dare say most of the youngsters would give it a darn good go - still, I think it would go mostly to the more experienced Principals if it arrives next season

 

Alina Cojocaru danced Tatiana in November 2001 when, by my calculations, she’d only have been 20 years old.  I didn’t manage to see her then. Can someone  who saw her then let us know how well she portrayed the role?

 

edited to add that I got that information from the performance data base which can, occasionally, be inaccurate:

http://www.rohcollections.org.uk/performance.aspx?performance=5916&row=1

Edited by Bluebird

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22 hours ago, Sim said:

I am hoping Naghdi/Ball will move up one from Olga/Lensky to Tatiana/Onegin, and O'Sullivan/Sambe moving into Olga/Lensky.  I would never have considered Sambe a Lensky before Saturday's tour de force as Romeo, but now my mind is totally changed.  

 

Oh, Sim ... IF Onegin returns .. and is then established in the RB rep - I would very much hope we might see the Naghdi/Ball Olga/Lensky again - at least once during the 19/20 run.  They are so relatively young - and his handling of those over the shoulder lifts as Lensky was so brilliant (i.e., so easy) as to be unique in my experience.  I would dearly love to see it again.  The Tatiana/Oneign combination is a fine one - but this pairing would surely have much time to establish their take on those senior roles in the future.  Given the fact that it was the Olga/Lensky combo that really marked their partnership in the first place it would I think be grand if the larger audience that they have garnered might have a chance to truly appreciate it.  

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Sim said:

I am hoping Naghdi/Ball will move up one from Olga/Lensky to Tatiana/Onegin, and O'Sullivan/Sambe moving into Olga/Lensky.  I would never have considered Sambe a Lensky before Saturday's tour de force as Romeo, but now my mind is totally changed.  

 

I hope Naghdi/Ball are still cast as Olga/Lensky this time but also O'Sullivan/Sambe. I know that Tatiana isn't really older but I generally prefer a more mature dancer in that role, although I do remember Cojocaru dancing it when she was young and being amazing but then she has this rare ability to be everything. 

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12 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

 

Alina Cojocaru danced Tatiana in November 2001 when, by my calculations, she’d only have been 20 years old.  

 

 

Yes, but that’s ALINA. Nuff said 🙂

 

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5 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

 

Alina Cojocaru danced Tatiana in November 2001 when, by my calculations, she’d only have been 20 years old.  I didn’t manage to see her then. Can someone  who saw her then let us know how well she portrayed the role?

 

edited to add that I got that information from the performance data base which can, occasionally, be inaccurate:

http://www.rohcollections.org.uk/performance.aspx?performance=5916&row=1

 

We were posting at the same time. I can't remember exactly whether I saw her debut, very likely since I went to everything she & Kobborg danced at that time. I certainly saw one of her early performances and as I said above she has a rare ability to do everything. Of course the unsurpassed partnership with Johan Kobborg was a major factor in the power of those performances. I found this review https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2001/nov/29/dance.artsfeatures which interestingly talks about Tatiana being a role for a mature dancer. 

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A mini tranche of  a few  available tickets have appeared today, for 9 previously sold out dates up to  14 May.  

Edited by Richard LH
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30 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

 

Alina Cojocaru danced Tatiana in November 2001 when, by my calculations, she’d only have been 20 years old.  I didn’t manage to see her then. Can someone  who saw her then let us know how well she portrayed the role?

 

She was astonishing. She made herself look and move 'older' in Act 3 in a way some others far older than she was then cannot manage.

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47 minutes ago, Xandra Newman said:

I am still waiting for your assistance/advice/suggestion how to PC phrase what I have said Bangorballetboy. 

 

Seemingly it is much easier to accuse a Forum member of being rude and give a rather "aggressive" response.

As a Moderator Bangalletboy should set the right tone and not jump on his/her high horse by making an accusation that someone is being rude when one simply states his/her opinion. 

 

This is the last thing I'll write since I have absolutely no desire to be provocative nor high-jack this R&J post but since Bangorballetboy has not come up with a suggestion for a PC replacement, after jumping on his high horse and accusing me of being rude, he has opted to stay silent, which tells me enough. I trust Bangorballetboy won't mind that I shall feel at liberty to continue using "late stages of a career" until I stand PC corrected.

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8 minutes ago, capybara said:

 

She was astonishing. She made herself look and move 'older' in Act 3 in a way some others far older than she was then cannot manage.

Yes, we saw her too. I can still see the resolution as she told Onegin to go and what it cost her. She is a wonderful actress/ballerina.

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13 minutes ago, capybara said:

 

She was astonishing. She made herself look and move 'older' in Act 3 in a way some others far older than she was then cannot manage.

 

(Although at the same time I remember commenting that her pas de deux with Gremin in that act was far too Romeo & Juliet-like, for me undermining the credibility of her then being tempted to go back to Onegin).  But we are getting very off-topic :) 

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I thought she was astounding in the mirror pas de deux - totally fearless - and very good in the last act, but far too young in the first scene - she looked about 13.

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Alina is the only dancer I can remember whom (I think) played both Olga and Tatiana in the same run when she was still very young. I think it was the Ross Stretton period. Both were amazing but I have a particular fondness for her Olga to Ivan Putrov's Lensky and Rojo's Tatiana and Adam Cooper's Onegin; fabulous casting and performances all round.

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21 minutes ago, Jane S said:

I thought she was astounding in the mirror pas de deux - totally fearless - and very good in the last act, but far too young in the first scene - she looked about 13.

 

Yes fearless is exactly it. I've not seen a mirror pdd since that has come even close to those of Cojocaru/Kobborg.

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I understand posters above wanting to see Naghdi/Ball as Olga/Lensky again.  I wouldn't mind that either, but not sure we would get Principals cast in those roles at the moment, when there are so many wonderful Soloists/First Soloists who could beautifully fill those roles.  But who knows?  I know Principals have danced them in the past, and I have seen a good few of them, but I think now with the RB being in such a great place across the board I don't know if it's necessary to cast Principals here.  Unless of course they especially want to be cast!  

 

I saw Alina dance Tatiana when she was 23.  Together with Kobborg, they were the most unforgettable performances of these roles that I am ever likely to see.  They just ripped me apart.  What was so astonishing was that I was equally bowled over each time they did the ballet as the years went by.  I so wish the RB had released their cinema broadcast to the public on DVD or whatever other contraption.  It really needs to be out there and available to anyone who loves, or even likes, ballet.  

 

On the more 'mature' end of the dancing scale, I would love love love to see Laura Morera and Federico Bonelli reprise these roles.  Laura brings her usual intelligence and depth to Tatiana, and Federico is a dark, brooding Onegin.  I loved them together in this ballet (as well as in many others, of course).

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4 hours ago, Xandra Newman said:

The point for me is: does Nunez - at this late stage in her career - still need to reprise the role of Juliet?

 

*I* need her to reprise it.

 

3 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

Do you know how long her career is going to be? 

 

Her recent In Conversation suggested that she wasn’t even thinking about when her eventual retirement might happen, and that she had many many more years in her yet!

 

As for the remarks about the orchestra, I was at the matinee and there were indeed a number of times when both the trumpet and horn sections came to grief - more so than usual. I also found myself wondering whether there was a new bass clarinettist, or possibly an existing one with a new instrument... it *is* the bass clarinet I’m thinking of, isn’t it, that comes in with the “Montagues & Capulets” theme in the bar immediately following Romeo & Juliet’s first meeting? It sounded different from usual (bear in mind this was my first viewing of the current revival).

 

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2 minutes ago, RuthE said:

As for the remarks about the orchestra, I was at the matinee and there were indeed a number of times when both the trumpet and horn sections came to grief - more so than usual.

 

I find it baffling - verging on enraging - that nothing seems to have been done to resolve the brass section's shortcomings. Surely conductors must have complained to the management - and were I in the orchestra I'd be mightily hacked off as they definitely let the side down.

 

I expect orchestras in certain parts of the world to have strengths and weaknesses, but there is no excuse for a London orchestra to have a weak brass section - it's shameful.

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40 minutes ago, Sim said:

On the more 'mature' end of the dancing scale, I would love love love to see Laura Morera and Federico Bonelli reprise these roles.  Laura brings her usual intelligence and depth to Tatiana, and Federico is a dark, brooding Onegin.  I loved them together in this ballet (as well as in many others, of course).

I do so agree! I returned to ballet in 2012 after a long absence and have been trying to catch up on things I had missed. My most urgent wish is,to see Morera/,Bonelli in Onegin - I think they would be the perfect casting for me. With Naghdi/Ball as Olga/Lensky please!

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5 hours ago, Xandra Newman said:

Yes indeed.

The 7 female Principals each have three performances, the 2 first soloists have 2 performances and soloist O'Sullivan had a closed School Matinee and 1 public performance. The point for me is: does Nunez - at this late stage in her career - still need to reprise the role of Juliet? and Lamb? (at the expense of younger Juliet's who are far more fascinating to watch).

 

I've booked for both Nunez & Lamb partly in case it's the last time either of them dance Juliet. Of course that reason won't apply to those of you who have been watching them in the role for years. I'm also booked for, in decreasing order of age, Hamilton & Hayward.

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7 hours ago, Xandra Newman said:

 The point for me is: does Nunez - at this late stage in her career - still need to reprise the role of Juliet? and Lamb? 

Would you have said that to Fonteyn? Or Ferri? I for one am enjoying the range of artistry we get to experience in this run. 

Edited by MrsBBB
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2 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

Of course that reason won't apply to those of you who have been watching them in the role for years.

 

Why not?

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3 hours ago, RuthE said:

also found myself wondering whether there was a new bass clarinettist, or possibly an existing one with a new instrument... it *is* the bass clarinet I’m thinking of, isn’t it, that comes in with the “Montagues & Capulets” theme in the bar immediately following Romeo & Juliet’s first meeting? It sounded different from usual (bear in mind this was my first viewing of the current revival).

 

 

Glad I questioned my hearing here... I checked IMSLP for the full orchestral score and it’s marked for saxophone, not bass clarinet. Which would more readily explain a variation in sound from previous revivals, as sax isn’t a routine orchestral instrument so perhaps is a position filled by different freelancers...(?)

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1 hour ago, MrsBBB said:

Would you have said that to Fonteyn? Or Ferri? I for one am enjoying the range of artistry we get to experience in this run. 

 

I would very much appreciate it if you could keep my question within its context, instead of isolating it.

 

It was a question, nothing more, not even a statement, and it was in answer to previous posts relating to the subject. 

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In the context of Xandra’s remark, which was made in the context of seeing more performances from younger dancers, yes I would have questioned why Fonteyn/Ferri or Pavlova needed to be cast as Juliet.  How such an innocent observation can be twisted into somehow disparaging Nunez or questioning her longevity  is beyond my understanding, 

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A very wise friend (sadly now passed away) once said to me that you have to be old to dance young.

 

I think it was Capybara who mentioned Marion Tait.  I didn't book for her initial performances as Juliet because I thought she was too old.  All my friends told me I was mad so I booked to see her in what turned out to be her final season as a principal dancer at BRB (1994/1995) when she must have been in her late 40s.  I HAVE NEVER FORGOTTEN THAT NIGHT!!!!  To this day Marion Tait is still the most convincing 14 year old I have ever seen.  I was sitting on the front row at the Birmingham Hippodrome.  I also saw her, some years later, rehearsing Rachel Peppin in the balcony scene.  She started demonstrating the arm movements and, dressed in a track suit and trainers she became Juliet.

 

Why should we, the aficionados, deprive the vast majority of the audience of the chance to see dancers who have reached a degree of artistry in their (comparative) maturity as dancers that make them compelling in roles such as Juliet?

 

Personally I love to see young dancers and if it was up to me the castings could well have been different but Mr O'Hare has to keep a balance between satisfying the regulars and the general public.

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10 hours ago, RuthE said:

 

Why not?

 

Sorry, I didn't phrase that very clearly. I meant that as I've never seen them in the role before this run might be my only chance to ever see them, whereas most regular ballet viewers are likely to have seen them multiple times in previous runs.

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