Lizbie1 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Thanks for alerting us - it’s rather an unsatisfactory statement, feels like it’s missing a conclusion. The unanswered question is of course, “Well, what are you going to do about it?” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) Another thing! That “17.5% available to the public” figure is most certainly skewed by the dates which don’t feature either Netrebko or Kaufmann or both, and have been slower to sell. Edited February 4, 2019 by Lizbie1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I thought the same, Lizbie1, but then wondered if perhaps Alex Beard was being deliberately vague to cover up just how big this re-selling issue has become for 'star name' events at the ROH? I also wondered whether the seats that were coming on for sale this afternoon had been re-claimed from ticket re-selling websites. Or am I being rather optimistic there!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheherezade Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 19 minutes ago, Indigo said: I also wondered whether the seats that were coming on for sale this afternoon had been re-claimed from ticket re-selling websites. Or am I being rather optimistic there!?! I feel sure that very prominent statements to that effect would have been put out if that were the case. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalia Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I don’t quite understand Alex Beard’s statement. 38% of tickets had already been purchased by Friends by the time general booking opened (that makes sense) and 17.5% were available to the general public online – what has happened to the other 45.5%? Available in person/by phone? Held back for Friday Rush? Were they online but bots nipped in at 09:00:01 and harvested them? Are they corporate tickets? I have so many questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 The question I’d really like to see answered is whether there was indeed no cap on the number of tickets an individual (patron, friend or otherwise) could buy. If it is true, that’s a pretty shocking oversight and I think we’d be due an explanation. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheherezade Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Lizbie1 said: The question I’d really like to see answered is whether there was indeed no cap on the number of tickets an individual (patron, friend or otherwise) could buy. If it is true, that’s a pretty shocking oversight and I think we’d be due an explanation. I think that is, indeed, true, Lizbie. I can't recall details of any cap on the number of tickets allowed to any one purchaser, most unexpected given that the Kaufmann/Netrebko performances were bound to be the biggest draw of the season and were, not surprisingly, touted as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnstar Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, Thalia said: I don’t quite understand Alex Beard’s statement. 38% of tickets had already been purchased by Friends by the time general booking opened (that makes sense) and 17.5% were available to the general public online – what has happened to the other 45.5%? Available in person/by phone? Held back for Friday Rush? Were they online but bots nipped in at 09:00:01 and harvested them? Are they corporate tickets? I have so many questions... After repeatedly reading Beard's statement, I don't think the two percentages are comparable like that. 17.5% is referring to tickets for Forza whereas "just 38% of tickets for the spring booking period had been sold to ROH members" means 38% of tickets for all the productions that went on sale on 30th January, not 38% of tickets for Forza. Is that how other people are reading it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalia Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 That does make more sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Scheherezade said: I feel sure that very prominent statements to that effect would have been put out if that were the case. One would think a clear statement would be made. On the other hand, I've been following the Forza ticket sales this afternoon. There's been a relatively steady stream of tickets coming up for various Kaufmann or Netrebko or joint performances covering various price bands (usually £87 & over, though some £41 I think) & in different parts of the house. I know from past experience tickets can pop up soon after public booking, including for sold-out performances. But I was surprised by the number of them & the seat locations were good ones - including the grand tier & stalls. So it left me questioning where they'd all appeared from & why they weren't available at public booking? Edited February 4, 2019 by Indigo Clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I wonder if they’ve had a rummage down the back of the sofa for tickets being held back for critics, VIPs, friends of the cast etc. And of course the £1,400+ crew! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penelopesimpson Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 8 hours ago, Indigo said: Quite a few Forza tickets appeared this afternoon for various dates. As I missed out at public booking, I was delighted to grab a couple of tickets as a birthday present to my husband for Kaufmann & Netrebko. On the ROH News page, Alex Beard has posted a piece explaining the lack of Forza tickets at public booking. Except he doesn’t explain ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 7 hours ago, penelopesimpson said: Except he doesn’t explain ... Not by 'normal' standards. But by current ROH standards... 😄 More Forza tickets have appeared for sale on numerous Kaufmann / Netrebko / joint dates this morning; some more front row grand tier & stalls circle, plus good stalls. As I type, there's 17 tickets appeared for Friday 12 April. Surely they're not finding this many tickets down the back of the ROH box office sofa? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penelopesimpson Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 Indigo, I am forever in your debt for your post. I went straight online and I have got a ticket! Not completely what I wanted as its just Kaufmann but seeing him in Othello in 2017 was one of the great experiences of my life and I am over the moon. I will keep monitoring in the (faint!) hope that I may be able to swap it for one with Netrebko as well, but I am still overjoyed so big thanks. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Very pleased for you, Penelope 😃 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) In terms of limiting ticket purchases I just noticed that next Tuesday’s evening performance by the Royal Ballet School is marked >>You may only purchase up to two tickets for this performance Yet with less than a week to go the amphitheatre is still half empty. This seems to be exactly the opposite situation as with Forza (no ticket limit and a great clamour for tickets) so could it be that someone in the box office or wherever made a mistake? Or rather, two mistakes? I point this out as I happen to be in happy possession of two cheap but good front side Amphi tickets for the School performance which I can now no longer use as I will be away on a job. Checking the website shows why no one seems to want them. A review might be in order of what looks from this perspective to be rather random decisions about purchase limits. Edited February 7, 2019 by Sebastian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuthE Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Limiting the RBS tickets would have seemed a sensible decision at the time, given that there are only 2(?) performances. But there is nothing stopping them lifting that limit later if things are selling slowly - I've known it done in the past. It is not, of course, possible to do the reverse and impose a limit retrospectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Serious diversion I know but since this is a moany thread about RO booking, I note that with less than a fortnight to go until summer booking opens for top level Friends we still don’t know who’s doing Krakenthorp in la Fille du Regiment, which seems odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalletcoForum Moderators Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 A post on this thread has been hidden whilst the moderators determine whether it complies with AUP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 24 minutes ago, BalletcoForum Moderators said: A post on this thread has been hidden whilst the moderators determine whether it complies with AUP. Thanks Moderators - I thought I must have been imagining things. I’m very much hoping the Royal Opera House will answer the various questions asked on its Forza news page. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penelopesimpson Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) John: I wrote to them on the topic, asking two specific questions. The fact that in their THREE different responses they do not answer either, instead flooding me with meaningless statistics, pretty much tells me something is up. On the ROH Forza page Alex Beard says: 'When we launched public booking in January 2019, 17.5% of La forza del destino tickets were available for the public to book online. When tickets were made available to the general public, just 38% of tickets for the spring booking period had been sold to ROH members.' Unfortunately, the cold hard facts are that there were NO tickets on sale for the Netrebko/Kauffman dates in Stalls/Stalls Circle/Grand Tier, and only a smattering in the Ampitheatre. This must therefore mean that the 17.5% he claims to have been available were only for the other dates. If this is the case, why don't they just come and out and say so and be honest and upfront? Tickets therefore sold before January 30 total 55.5%. Are we to assume that all the rest were sold to Students and in Packages? Seems an inordinately high figure. Edited February 8, 2019 by penelopesimpson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Many thanks Penelope I agree with you that the statistics are not helpful and are not well presented - as the debate is about availability it would be much better if all the statistics measured ‘availability’. I have asked among other things what %age of tickets were made available for the four Netrebko/Kaufmann performances. I saw the Evening Standard was quoting c100 (I think per performance) which is less than 5%. The 17.5% Alex Beard is quoting must cover all Forza performances - but of course that’s not the key question. My second post on the ROH website has not yet been published - I’m rather hoping it will be published but alongside the answers. I’m afraid I’m not sure what your 55.5% figure refers to. My understanding is that the 38% figure is for all tickets sold prior to general booking, including Forza, and as I say much better to refer to 62% of all tickets being available when general booking opened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnstar Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 07/02/2019 at 07:22, Sebastian said: In terms of limiting ticket purchases I just noticed that next Tuesday’s evening performance by the Royal Ballet School is marked >>You may only purchase up to two tickets for this performance Yet with less than a week to go the amphitheatre is still half empty. This seems to be exactly the opposite situation as with Forza (no ticket limit and a great clamour for tickets) so could it be that someone in the box office or wherever made a mistake? Or rather, two mistakes? I point this out as I happen to be in happy possession of two cheap but good front side Amphi tickets for the School performance which I can now no longer use as I will be away on a job. Checking the website shows why no one seems to want them. A review might be in order of what looks from this perspective to be rather random decisions about purchase limits. Given this limitation, I'm curious as to how the ROH website has gone from having 98 stalls seats available for that performance at 1pm today to 0 stalls availability at 4pm today. Is it likely that at least 49 people suddenly all booked stalls seats within 3 hours, given booking has been open for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, Dawnstar said: Given this limitation, I'm curious as to how the ROH website has gone from having 98 stalls seats available for that performance at 1pm today to 0 stalls availability at 4pm today. Is it likely that at least 49 people suddenly all booked stalls seats within 3 hours, given booking has been open for months. I had an email at 1pm for the student standby offer for that perfomance, probably accounts for quick sale of seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnstar Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Ah, right. I thought they only did student standby the day before a performance date. I've bought a Friday rush ticket but would have contemplated buying a better seat if any had popped up in the stalls. Evidently that's not going to happen now if all the seats have gone to students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onemouseplace Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 More Forza tickets added now for Kaufmann or Netrebko nights. Although, interestingly, only select nights seem to be available for Friends as I discovered when I wasn't logged in on my phone. Presumably they are releasing some for general booking only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 On 07/02/2019 at 09:36, RuthE said: Limiting the RBS tickets would have seemed a sensible decision at the time, given that there are only 2(?) performances. But there is nothing stopping them lifting that limit later if things are selling slowly - I've known it done in the past. It is not, of course, possible to do the reverse and impose a limit retrospectively. The information on the website is out of date. They lifted the limit some time ago. I can't remember when or how we were informed but I was able to buy a couple of extra tickets at the beginning of November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I see a few more posts have been published - but sadly no answers to what I think are very fair questions: https://www.roh.org.uk/news/la-forza-del-destino-the-royal-opera-houses-position-on-viagogo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penelopesimpson Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 Two issues are being conflated here and Iam astonished that ROH has not provided any sort of response to the straightforward questions asked. Do management think their patrons haven’t noticed their obfuscating? Trying to blame Viagogo for the ticket shambles is ridiculous. I am not advocating the use of third party platforms, but it is hypocritical of ROH to try to deflect the blame, especially when ROH makes no secret of the fact that it uses ticket agencies. If patrons had been limited to two tickets per person, the problem simply wouldn’t exist. What I and others want to know is why there were no decent seats available for the General Public on Jan 30. This is a simple enough question, even if the answer is self-evidently that those who pay for Priority Access were allowed to hoover up all the tickets, many of which subsequently appeared on Viagogo. To blame a ticket agency for such catastrophic mismanagement, insults our intelligence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninamargaret Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 I think it would be wise to make a,distinction between genuine ticket agencies who charge a fee for selling tickets that are obtained legitimately from the theatre and a company like Viagogo who presumably buy their tickets,probably not directly from the theatre but from other sources and who charge many times the face value of the ticket. While I don't see the need for agencies these days the ROH lists its official agencies and Viagogo is definitely not one of them. So why don't they take some action? Can't help feeling the ROH is dragging its heels on this, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Viagogo don't buy the tickets, it's individuals who buy them and then put them up for resale on Viagogo at hugely inflated prices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninamargaret Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 8 hours ago, alison said: Viagogo don't buy the tickets, it's individuals who buy them and then put them up for resale on Viagogo at hugely inflated prices. I thought that was the case but was trying to be tactful! All the more reason for ROH to investigate urgently, something that does not seem to be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penelopesimpson Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) I think it suits ROH to imply that Viagogo is the villain here when even a cursory look at what happened shows that, overwhelmingly, it is Friends who have bought tickets to sell. Prior to General Booking opening, the only way you could get tickets was through priority access schemes, yet there have been Forza tickets for sale on Viagogo since December. This is simply market forces at work and I don’t see why Viagogo should take the blame for the fact that ROH decided to let its subscription patrons have a free for all on seats. Why is anybody’s guess. I would rather reserve my ire for those agencies who employ algorithms to block purchase masses of seats for pop concerts, inflating prices and thus denying access to fans. Viagogo has a different business model, never risking its own money but merely acting as a platform for others. With the exception of La Forza, when booking opens everybody has a chance to purchase tickets. Viagogo and other agencies exist to provide tickets for those who come late to the party. Self-evidently, if tickets had been restricted to two per person, the problem of re-selling would have been substantially reduced. It is ROH that is at fault here and it’s time they admitted it. To answer your question, Ninamargaret, they aren’t going to investigate because they know the answer. They caused the problem. Edited February 16, 2019 by penelopesimpson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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