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On 19/01/2019 at 01:17, alison said:

 

That reminds me - when I reported on Ballet Studio Live a couple of weeks ago, I forgot to say that Christopher Carr seemed to devote almost as much time to pigeon care, shall we call it, as to the ballet-related corrections.  Quite fascinating!

 Does the pigeon wrangler get a programme credit?  After all, if the pigeons don't do their stuff perfectly in the last act, the story falls a bit flat.

 

Linda

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I think that the answer is that the marketing department does not know how to sell anything of an artistic nature and would be much happier if they were selling something that was standardised and could be packaged and sold without any real effort on their part. Something along the lines of  " The Opera House Experience" with a buy line of "Dine in style. Experience the opulence and grandeur of the Royal Opera House's magnificent mid-nineteenth century auditorium. See a show. All you have to do is indicate whether you wish to see a) Opera; b) Ballet; or c)Either . Tell us your price range; the size of your party and the date or dates you require and we do the rest".

 

They could probably just about manage that but when it comes to telling people why they should attend a particular opera or ballet programme if the brand won't sell tickets then they are all at sea. But then I believe that few, if any theatrical marketing departments, are held in particularly high esteem by those who work in other departments in the same organisation. Those employed in marketing are generally perceived to have little interest in the art form let alone the product they are supposed to be selling and completely lacking the ability to inform, persuade or to provide links which might entice someone to buy a ticket.

Edited by FLOSS
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59 minutes ago, loveclassics said:

After all, if the pigeons don't do their stuff perfectly in the last act, the story falls a bit flat.

 

There’s so much that’s a delight in the Ballet but the pigeons do certainly bring an added ‘coo’ factor (even if occasionally temperamental).

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39 minutes ago, JohnS said:

 

There’s so much that’s a delight in the Ballet but the pigeons do certainly bring an added ‘coo’ factor (even if occasionally temperamental).

 

It’s the pigeon which makes the tears spill over for me, every time.

Edited by Lizbie1
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3 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

It’s the pigeon which makes the tears well over for me, every time.

 

Yes, I think for me too, I get very emotional about birds, two woodpigeons spend most of their day in my garden, they're very amiable birds but too heavy for the ballet!

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The birds used are white so aren't they technically doves? 

"The Two Doves" would be a more romantic  name for this ballet,  but maybe "pigeons"  comes closer to capturing the  rather dopey nature of the two main characters!

 

dove or pigeon.jpg

Edited by Richard LH

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2 hours ago, loveclassics said:

 Does the pigeon wrangler get a programme credit?  After all, if the pigeons don't do their stuff perfectly in the last act, the story falls a bit flat.

 

Linda

 

yes, you'd think they could dovetail that into the credits on the cast sheet...

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28 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

The birds used are white so aren't they technically doves? 

"The Two Doves" would be a more romantic  name for this ballet,  but maybe "pigeons"  comes closer to capturing the  rather dopey nature of the two main characters!

 

 

...and yet - Vic and Bob's 'Dove from Above' looks more like a pigeon - Columbiformes confusion!

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2 minutes ago, zxDaveM said:

 

...and yet - Vic and Bob's 'Dove from Above' looks more like a pigeon - Columbiformes confusion!

 

For what it's worth, Wikipedia says (under "Columbidae"):

 

"The distinction between "doves" and "pigeons" is not consistent. In everyday speech, "dove" frequently indicates a pigeon that is white or nearly white; some people use the terms "dove" and "pigeon" interchangeably. In contrast, in scientific and ornithological practice, "dove" tends to be used for smaller species and "pigeon" for larger ones, but this is in no way consistently applied. Historically, the common names for these birds involve a great deal of variation between the terms. The species most commonly referred to as "pigeon" is the species known by scientists as the rock dove, one subspecies of which, the domestic pigeon, is common in many cities as the feral pigeon."

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Funny really - I am quite phobic about what I think of as pigeons, but I love what I think of as doves. 🤔 Clearly no logic there, then.

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On 21/01/2019 at 16:51, SheilaC said:

eminent

 

On 21/01/2019 at 16:51, SheilaC said:

I wrote to complain to the Guardian when I knew LW had been appointed as I knew from an ENB masterclass I attended where she led discussion how little she knew about ballet history (I told them that half the audience there were more knowledgeable than she was) and that the paper which had previously had eminent critics James Monahan and Mary Clarke, should appoint someone with more expertise. One of her first articles for the Guardian stated that ballerinas are universally petite (Zen?)

But I don't agree about Clement Crisp, in my view he may often had an agenda, attacking the Royal in the past (during that period he lauded BRB much more than usual, as part of his campaign) and promoting Russian companies and dancers he was associated with.

Reputable critics often make mistakes. The recent article on Apollo by Alistair Macaulay claimed that the ballet was unique among Balanchine's works in having a narrative (Davidsbundlertanze? even more so, A  Midsummer Nights Dream? The Night Shadow?). In the programme for Trio Concerto Dance, Sarah Crompton claims that Sadler's Wells Theatre Ballet toured during the war (started 1947)

Regarding the comment about dancers being petite - I agree, the vast majority are, even those who may be taller than many of their peers eg Zenaida Yanowsky. DD has often been referred to as petite although she is quite a way above average height. ‘Petite’ does not always mean short, despite their commonly being used interchangeably; it’s a question of frame size, which can be smaller than average whether someone is short or tall. 

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14 hours ago, Legseleven said:

‘Petite’ does not always mean short

 

I am straying towards pedantry here, but  the generally accepted definition of "petite" does very much imply  small of stature (as well as dainty or slender). I don't agree that  you would naturally  call  relatively tall ladies,  such Zenaida Yanowsky ( 5' 9'' I believe)  "petite"  just because they are slim. 

Edited by Richard LH
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I always go by the gods of M&S:   their 'petite' range is for shorter ladies....I Know this because I am often envious that I am too tall to buy that range as it's very appealing!

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More to the point, I  am very pleased to note from social media that after 4 months  away, James Hay is back in rehearsals with Akane Takada and Mayara Magri and is looking forward to dancing with them in The Two Pigeons on 02 February. 

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Me too....that's a relief! So glad he's back.

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To go back to the question of the pigeons, when Terry and I were leaving after the opening night we overheard people ahead of us having a discussion as to whether or not the pigeons are real!! I suppose it is obvious to us but if people are more cinema goers than theatregoers computer imagery is king and people are more used to this than real birds.

 

Like other posters I find I can get very emotional at Ashton ballets; far more so than Macmillan. I think it is the beauty of the movements he creates and I find 2 Pigeons a definite tear jerker but I have cried at Patineurs and La Fille just because they are so perfect. It is just a perfect match of choreography, music, sets and costumes and of course the fabulous, amazing, technical and romantic interpretation of them by all members of the Royal Ballet (and the orchestra). That is why (much as I enjoyed Asphodel Meadows) I think 2 Pigeons should have been paired with another Ashton ballet for a perfect programme. I see SkyArts are showing Rhapsody/Two Pigeons again next week (with Patineurs a few days earlier). What a triple bill that would be! I bet there would be very few empty seats for that.

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I had assumed that the ROH paired Asphodel Meadows with Two Pigeons, and put the former first, on the same principle that the Proms programme new music in the first half of concerts with something well-known in the second half: it makes the audience sit through the new work before they can get what they really want to see/hear! Or is modern ballet more popular than modern music?

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I had heard (though I don't know how accurate it is) that Two Pigeons is always programmed second so if there is a pigeon problem it won't hold up the performance while it is secured!

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1 hour ago, jmhopton said:

I see SkyArts are showing Rhapsody/Two Pigeons again next week (with Patineurs a few days earlier). What a triple bill that would be! I bet there would be very few empty seats for that.

 

Would you like to add that to the Sky thread, Joan?

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15 hours ago, jmhopton said:

I had heard (though I don't know how accurate it is) that Two Pigeons is always programmed second so if there is a pigeon problem it won't hold up the performance while it is secured!

 

And any need to clean the stage...

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1 hour ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

And any need to clean the stage...

 

One might think Ashton might have thought of that before putting a live pony in Act 1 of Fille rather than Act 2 :lol:

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1 hour ago, RuthE said:

 

One might think Ashton might have thought of that before putting a live pony in Act 1 of Fille rather than Act 2 :lol:

Although any mess made by Naughty Peregrine is immediately dealt with by the poor young dancer following along with the dustpan and brush...but having said this, there was the time a couple of years ago where NP pooped in his second scene (the harvest dance) and the poor cleaner was having to dodge around the happy peasants dancing...it was hilarious to watch how he did that, and how the dancers subtly tried to avoid the deposit.  The cleaner had to run offstage and back on again because he couldn't get all of it first time around....between all of them, it was done with no delay or artistic interruption to the proceedings...another example of how professional all these wonderful dancers are!!

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I see SkyArts are showing Rhapsody/Two Pigeons again next week (with Patineurs a few days earlier). What a triple bill that would be! I bet there would be very few empty seats for that.

 

Alison: Would you like to add that to the Sky thread, Joan?

 

Have just done so, Alison.

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12 hours ago, Sim said:

Although any mess made by Naughty Peregrine is immediately dealt with by the poor young dancer following along with the dustpan and brush.

 

BRB largely get around this, I imagine, by having an interval between the two scenes of Act I (as it's known at the ROH, at least) :) 

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Have just had an email from ROH about next Saturday's performance ( never used to get these) giving helpful info about timings etc and luckily not saying any dancers have changed so looks like Hay will be back and performing with Takada as scheduled in Two Pigeons.

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57 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Have just had an email from ROH about next Saturday's performance ( never used to get these) giving helpful info about timings etc and luckily not saying any dancers have changed so looks like Hay will be back and performing with Takada as scheduled in Two Pigeons.

 

I assume you mean the evening and not the matinee!!

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Oh yes evening! I forgot there's two that day maybe because the evening starts at 7pm which is early so assumed no matinee that day!! 

 

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1 hour ago, LinMM said:

Oh yes evening! I forgot there's two that day maybe because the evening starts at 7pm which is early so assumed no matinee that day!! 

 

 

There better had be!

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Ah you going to the matinee then? Will look up and see who is dancing!

I know I had a terrible time sorting out who to see in this round but went for Hay and Takada as never seen in the roles before.

I really liked Stix Brunell in this role last time and also like Choe but went for a new person itch this programme...am seeing again on the 12th with the RBS students etc.

If you are going will message you!

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