Jump to content
Jan McNulty

The Royal Ballet: La Bayadère, London, November 2018

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, bridiem said:

Interesting though - can charisma really be subjective? Whether one responds to it or not is subjective, but I would have thought that its existence should be unarguable.

 

But if that's so and an experienced critic thinks that Muntagirov lacks it, where does that leave us?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lizbie1 said:

 

But if that's so and an experienced critic thinks that Muntagirov lacks it, where does that leave us?

 

I just added a sentence above to try to address that! But I think it's difficult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, bridiem said:

Perhaps some people resist responding for some reason and instead deny its existence.

 

Just seen this edit: in that case, might some people see it where none exists?

 

I'll shut up on the subject now!

Edited by Lizbie1
typo
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if you haven't seen Corrales yet I would say he has charisma .....for me!! But Nureyev usually tops most people for it!! And it's very difficult to say why. Anthony Dowell was a much more classical dancer ....beautiful lines ....clean light jumps ....and still never seen him bettered in certain roles ....Oberon comes to mind as one....and he definitely had something .....I used to make a point of booking to see him anyway but it was Nureyev who had that additional something else ....he was just so present when on the stage....it's a slightly larger than life feeling? 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

Just seen this edit: in that case, might some people see it where none exisits?

 

I'll shut up on the subject now!

 

Yes, I suppose that's possible! But where it is widely perceived, I think it would be reasonable to say that it exists. (Though I'm not offering that as a general principle!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Well if you haven't seen Corrales yet I would say he has charisma .....for me!! But Nureyev usually tops most people for it!! And it's very difficult to say why. Anthony Dowell was a much more classical dancer ....beautiful lines ....clean light jumps ....and still never seen him bettered in certain roles ....Oberon comes to mind as one....and he definitely had something .....I used to make a point of booking to see him anyway but it was Nureyev who had that additional something else ....he was just so present when on the stage....it's a slightly larger than life feeling? 

 

I seem to recall Nureyev describing Dowell as the finest classical dancer in the world. How wonderful if Corrales and Muntagirov can recreate even a little of the Nureyev/Dowell vibe.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

But if that's so and an experienced critic thinks that Muntagirov lacks it, where does that leave us?

 

Lucky ... because we see it!

 

I remember attending a performance about 5 years ago (NB not RB) and Luke Jennings was at the same performance.  He felt there was no character development by the leading male dancer and found his portrayal bland.  I was reduced to sobbing out loud because I found him so convincing in the role.

 

Horses for courses.

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Scheherezade said:

 

I seem to recall Nureyev describing Dowell as the finest classical dancer in the world. How wonderful if Corrales and Muntagirov can recreate even a little of the Nureyev/Dowell vibe.

 

I would say Muntagirov is definitely more of a “Dowell” than a “Nureyev.” Two completely different types of dancer, but both superlative - and charismatic - in their own way.

 

i don’t think you necessarily have to have that Nureyev flamboyance to have charisma. If a dancer grabs and holds your attention when they step onstage that’s a good start.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, jmhopton said:

Looking at the ROH casting for Bayadere for Sat 3rd Nov they have got Takada, McRae, Naghdi which is what I thought it should be. However for Tues 6th and Saturday 10th Nov they have got McRae, Naghdi, Takada which seems to indicate Yasmine is dancing Nikya. I take it this is a mistake? I thought Yasmine was only supposed to be dancing Gamzatti and not alternating roles like Nunez and Osipova. Looking further down the casting the Ball/Cuthbertson/Magri casting appears to show Magri is dancing Nikya which must be incorrect. You think the ROH could ensure their wonderful new website doesn't make such elementary errors.

Quite!! World Class innit ? I quote......

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes- people are bound to have different ideas about charisma.  Fair enough. Also about the personalities and style of different dancers, and my own preferences are often minority ones.  Similarly, The Times felt that Bintley's 'The King Dances' was very bad and a downer- I disagree, but it's an opinion....

 

I think there is a bit of a difference between these cases, and an overall rating.

 

Because if someone who enjoys classical ballet gets off a plane and wants to know- is there any really good ballet on in London? and sees the 3 stars review for Bayadere and thinks 'Hmm, maybe not'- they will have been misled. Luckily there are other reviews!

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even the dictionaries cannot adequately define "charisma"!  In this context, I think that it matters whether a dancer (by dint of their quality of dance, characterisation , personality, overall artistry and stage 'energy') is able to 'carry' a ballet.

 

Some can for me, some can't and it isn't always about being 'dynamic'. Ball, Corrales and Muntagirov (alphabetical order!) are three extraordinary talents at the top of The Royal Ballet. They are completely different but all three have, in my view, a 'special something' which draws me to them and enables me to 'live' their story with them through dance - as, for example, did Bonelli in Mayerling.

 

In the hands of a strong male lead, La Bayadere is about Solor's journey. Alas, that wasn't the case at this afternoon's seriously underpowered showing.

 

 

 

Edited by capybara
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Mary said:

Yes- people are bound to have different ideas about charisma.  Fair enough. Also about the personalities and style of different dancers, and my own preferences are often minority ones.  Similarly, The Times felt that Bintley's 'The King Dances' was very bad and a downer- I disagree, but it's an opinion....

 

I think there is a bit of a difference between these cases, and an overall rating.

 

Because if someone who enjoys classical ballet gets off a plane and wants to know- is there any really good ballet on in London? and sees the 3 stars review for Bayadere and thinks 'Hmm, maybe not'- they will have been misled. Luckily there are other reviews!

 

Except they'll be out of luck because there aren't any tickets!

Edited by penelopesimpson
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well David Wall of that generation was another terrific performer and he had something too!! His acting skills were superb. 

 

It is a fascinating area but I suppose looking back if I had to pick just ONE dancer from a generation ....an incredibly difficult thing to do in fact...because it's true in any generation there will be a number of more or less equally talented dancers but each bringing something different to the table .....however if I did ...from that generation ...I would pick Nureyev....just something given off other than the dancing itself which somehow gave it all more meaning......got right through to your soul.....But Dowell and Wall are definitely not far behind!!

Gosh how lucky I have been to have seen these dancers and now a new generation of wonderful dancers to cherish. 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Polunin has charisma.  I noticed it in spades from Corrales the other night before I knew who it was.  Asylmuratova and Ruzimatof simply oozed it by the bucket

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ruzimatov is one of those dancers I very much regret not having seen live.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, capybara said:

In the hands of a strong male lead, La Bayadere is about Solor's journey. Alas, that wasn't the case at this afternoon's seriously underpowered showing.

That's a shame.

 

As well as charisma, whatever that may be, there is 'dancing well' which is a bit less subjective- isn't it? I think so. Or not?

 

In that sense opening night was just so consistent throughout the company- no weak links.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, bridiem said:

Interesting though - can charisma really be subjective? Whether one responds to it or not is subjective, but I would have thought that its existence should be unarguable.

 

Perhaps some people resist responding for some reason and instead deny its existence.

 

 

Surely charisma is subjective otherwise one would be able to define it in a way that everyone could agree on in any particular case.

 

It is difficult sometimes to understand why other people don't respond as warmly to a dancer as one does oneself.

 

Some years ago there was a particular RB dancer who was my absolute favourite - I wouldn't miss a performance of his. I assumed everyone else felt the same and some people certainly did but a number of people whose opinions I respected, absolutely did not. I was perplexed and disappointed at the time but the funny thing is now I can't stand him myself :)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, annamk said:

 

Surely charisma is subjective otherwise one would be able to define it in a way that everyone could agree on in any particular case.

 

Well I agree that in practice it seems that it's not always undisputed; but I think that charisma is something that comes from the dancer and should be evident to the audience regardless of whether or not they particularly like the dancer.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was my first time seeing the Royal Ballet. I had been wanting to see Marianela so badly for a while. They were all amazing, the 3 leads and everyone else (a special mention for Akane and Claire). I keep dreaming about this performance since I've seen it. I feel like I've witnessed a piece of art that will remain historic (and I can't wait for the DVD). 

 

Vadim was a compelling Solor. I don't think he lacks charisma. I just find him really subtle. He made me feel for Solor when I usually don't care that much for this character. You could feel his love for Nikiya through the all performance. 

 

Natalia was a passionate Gamzatti. She was giving everything she could and keeping her head high. I personally find that her personality fits this role perfectly. She was playing it strong and but you feel this tragedy was destroying her. 

 

And Marianela... she was just magical. She has the perfect sensitivity for playing Nikiya. She was so vulnerable, especially during the act I and III. In the temple she was magical, flying around everyone else. Her technique during Nikiya's death was remarkable (but well, she's Nela). She used her perfect technique to skillfully convey emotions. Her death moved me. Until now Ulyana Lopatkina was my favorite Nikiya. Now, I'm not so sure. 

 

Also, the tension between Nikiya and Gamzatti could not have been better. Each dancer pushed the other one to be even better and their scene together in act I was powerful. 

 

On 02/11/2018 at 17:06, Nogoat said:

All very positive so far, but there were a few things that caused me to take note...
Given how brilliant Marianela is at classical, 'tutu' work, I did end up wondering if her Act 2 performance was a tiny (emphasis on the tiny, folks!!) bit below par - though that might reflect unrealistic expectations on my part, having just seen a fabulous Act 1 (and writing this now, having seen a brilliant Act 3).

I can understand this comment. But I also believe that act I was overwhelmingly fabulous. She might just have been too good in the rest of the performance. 

 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bridiem said:

 

Well I agree that in practice it seems that it's not always undisputed; but I think that charisma is something that comes from the dancer and should be evident to the audience regardless of whether or not they particularly like the dancer.

 

But the fact that it isn't evident to everyone shows that charisma, like beauty, is something which is essentially in the eye (or other sense) of the beholder. The eyes of most beholders may agree at any one time, but that fact doesn't make it objective. Any more than the fact that this year Classic FM voters made Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture (which the composer himself despised) the most popular piece of classical music, means that it is objectively more beautiful or charismatic than, say, Swan Lake, or Beethoven's 9th symphony etc.etc.

Edited by FrankH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, FrankH said:

 

But the fact that it isn't evident to everyone shows that charisma, like beauty, is something which is essentially in the eye (or other sense) of the beholder. The eyes of most beholders may agree at any one time, but that fact doesn't make it objective. Any more than the fact that this year Classic FM voters made Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture (which the composer himself despised) the most popular piece of classical music, means that it is objectively more beautiful or charismatic than, say, Swan Lake, or Beethoven's 9th symphony etc.etc.

 

I suppose what I'm saying is that if a performer is widely deemed to be charismatic (which doesn't necessarily mean brilliant or best) then they must be so, since charisma is wholly about the impact of  a performer and the link between them and the audience. It's not about quality but as someone else said is something akin to stage presence. The fact that some individuals don't recognise or feel the charisma may say more about them than about the performer and doesn't mean that the charisma doesn't exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

May I suggest that it would make sense for this discussion to have its own thread?  Perhaps a Moderator could create  a 'charisma' thread and move these posts there? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Darlex said:

If that is a review written by Lindsay Winship it won't be worth taking seriously. 

 

Lyndsey Winship's review, unlike Mark Monahan's five-star award in the Telegraph, at least didn't say you were enjoying "Gamzatti’s intoxication at her power over Solor and Gamzatti"! 

 

Edited by Sophoife
Clarified that Telegraph review was 5 stars
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest threads do go slightly off topic for a while over something that originally sort of  arose naturally.

I personally don't think we need a separate thread on "charisma" especially as nobody has actually chosen to start one specifically on this topic but it would probably be good now to get back to Bayadere and its performance by the RB!! 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went to this evening's performance and the highlight for me was Yasmine as Gamzatti. I felt she really pulled it off in terms of the characterisation and her dancing was superb.  I couldn't see any chemistry between Steven McRae and Akane, and I felt a bit flat after the electric performance I witnessed on Thursday.  Steven McRae certainly gave us some spectacular leaps (as one would expect from him) but his Act 2 solo did not compare with Vadim's in my opinion.  I also need to say, that if you hadn't seen Vadim, you would have thought it marvellous.

 

So, on Thursday, there was a thrill and an excitement in the audience almost right from the start. We were watching something incredibly special.  I didn't feel that today though the audience were very appreciative.  Akane gave it her best and she is a lovely dancer but I couldn't find any emotional depth there. 

 

I know this is a very subjective review so am perfectly happy if others think differently. The Corps were excellent again in the Kingdom of the Shades and overall very enjoyable indeed: it just didn't reach the heights for me.

 

PS. Irek surely wins on charisma. 

 

Edited by JennyTaylor
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

Who danced the matinee?

 

Solor: Hirano

Nikiya: Lamb

Gamzatti: Calvert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, JennyTaylor said:

I went to this evening's performance and the highlight for me was Yasmine as Gamzatti. I felt she really pulled it off in terms of the characterisation and her dancing was superb.  I couldn't see any chemistry between Steven McRae and Akane, and I felt a bit flat after the electric performance I witnessed on Thursday.  Steven McRae certainly gave us some spectacular leaps (as one would expect from him) but his Act 2 solo did not compare with Vadim's in my opinion.  I also need to say, that if you hadn't seen Vadim, you would have thought it marvellous.

 

 

I completely share your view on last night's performance Jenny.

Kudos to Steven McRae for making his come back after an injury induced absence of nearly a year. His leaps were as spectacular as always but there was a lack of chemistry between him and Akane Takada. Their passion for each other did not show or project to the audience, they danced the steps together but there was not much between them which showed their great love and desperation for each other. Akane Takada has a superb technic and she didn't set a foot wrong. Technically her dancing was beautiful but she lacked characterisation, I just didn't "feel" her Nikiya. The contrast with Yasmine Naghdi's characterisation of her Gamzatti made this all the more visible. The looks she gave Solor was just one of a kind!  This was Naghdi's first time back on stage this Season and her debut as Gamzatti was incredibly assured and wonderfully portrayed. She made a truly regal entry in Act 1, her solo was superbly danced and the Italian fouettees masterly executed. Her temple dance in Act 3 was nothing short of stunning and made me very emotional. The flowers bestowed on her made the audience gasp. Magri and Harrod were lovely as Shades (the three Shades were danced by Magri, Harrod and Hinkis). A big bravo to the Corps de ballet, they were breathtaking, not a wobble in sight. Just beautiful! They received a deserved prolonged applause.

All in all an enjoyable evening and for me too the highlight was Miss Naghdi and the Corps de ballet.

Edited by Xandra Newman
typo
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Xandra Newman said:

 This was Naghdi's first time back on stage this Season and her debut as Gamzatti was incredibly assured and wonderfully portrayed.

 

...............which makes it all the more amazing - as in the case of Muntagirov. Although both performed in Madrid in  July and in Morera's Gala in Japan in late August, neither of them had been on the ROH stage since early June nor, I believe, on any stage over the last couple of months. Then they come back into La Bayadere and deliver as they did - simply remarkable.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...