The Royal Ballet: La Bayadère, London, November 2018

[Lindsay]

I saw shouting down too - phrases like "PC Brigade" are very Richard Littlejohn/Daily Mail and suggest kneejerk reactions rather than thoughtful engagement.  Said's writing has been around for long enough to make it surprising to me that educated people can outright dismiss the concerns raised here and by Luke Jennings. 

 

In raising such concerns, no one here is saying that Bayadere should be dropped from the repertoire (although I would say that I have friends who will go to all kinds of theatre, opera and modern dance but avoid ballet because of its continued tolerance of this kind of spectacle) but all posters seem to be in agreement that some of the changes made to Western performances of the ballet in recent years reflect modern sensibilities.  There is a reason why Western companies no longer "black-up" and have cut some of the more crudely stereotypical/blatantly orientalist sections from the Russian versions of the ballet (slave dances etc.).  Our Western societies have evolved to respect people of different races in such a way that such stereotypes are troubling, in the same way that certain 1970s sit-coms are no longer palatable to the vast majority of people.  It's a gradual process and there are lots of grey areas but to dismiss such concerns altogether appears more than a little tone-deaf.  Younger people are actively rejecting the lazy stereotypes that once passed without comment and if ballet wants to recruit its next generation of audiences, those views need to be taken into account.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Lindsay
Adding a thought

[Anna C]

I would hardly compare La Bayadère to “Bless this House”, “It ain’t half hot, Mum” and so on, Lindsay.  Bayadère is a fantasy; a fairy story conceived in the 19th Century.  It’s not a “comedy” from the 1970s which when viewed now would rightly be disgustingly offensive.  Nobody goes to see Bayadère for an accurate historical portrayal of life in India, do they. 

[Lindsay]

Anna I would have hoped not, but the number of people in this thread hopefully posting "historical" photos and trying to find ways to justify Bayadere as "accurate" is depressing and is what has prompted me to post.  As Luke Jennings said, Bayadere could (and perhaps should) be 'read' as a European misunderstanding of Eastern culture,  stemming from the colonial period and its assumptions of the superiority of white civilisation.  However, it seems to me that many posters here are not coming from that starting point.

[JohnS]

2 minutes ago, Fiz said:

All ballet, some plays, opera and operetta require a suspension of belief if we want to enjoy it to the fullest extent so I do that. 

 

I agree Fiz but a suspension of belief can be difficult to maintain if you find something particularly niggling - for me in La Bayadere the High Brahmin's retinue and the High Brahmin's rather clumsy subterfuge when assisting the Bronze Idol's exit.  

I'm pleased to say I have no difficulty at all in suspending my belief in Swan Lake, Nutcracker etc.

[Scheherezade]

Three brief thoughts on PC revisionism:

1. Those who take offence all too frequently share few, if any, cultural national or domestic links with those upon whose behalf the offence is taken.

2. Many galleries and museums have already taken to removing exhibits that they fear may enrage those same offence-takers.

3. We are rapidly, and very sadly, reaching the stage where disagreement with the offence-taking minority is increasingly being seen as subversive.

 

I do not wish to become political so will say no more but I am saddened that this type of censorship and the re-writing of history should be allowed to pervade the arts.

[FrankH]

The fact that La Bayadère has been put on at all, should surely lessen the fears of those who think that this country/the world has been taken over entirely by the "PC Brigade", which is what Richard Littlejohn/Quentin Letts/Rod Liddle/Mail, Sun, Express etc. want us to believe.

 

Actually PC has become a practically meaningless phrase, used by right-wingers in the same way as left-wingers use the term "fascist". They both now simply mean people/ politicians/ ideas you don't like.

 

Whatever - I am very glad that La Bayadère is being shown this evening at my local Curzon, and looking forward immensely to watching it, and hoping that it will be as compelling as Mayerling, so that my dread of falling asleep in a performance doesn't come about.

 

I have been instructed by the various disagreements on this forum as to the quality of different dancers' performances. There are near-objective standards of performance, but that provides only a basis for appreciation in the arts. So much of arts appreciation/criticism etc. has to be subjective.

 

That's a warning that, if I feel up to it, and have the time, I may feel tempted to post a review of my reactions, even though they will be those of a ballet ignoramus.

[Mary]

I think there is a difference between 'taking offence' and raising questions.

 

The word 'offence' does seem to be very much over-used these days- perhaps if we suspend the use of  that word we can discuss the issues more effecively- at least I just wonder.

 

I go to galleries a lot and have not noticed any exhibits being 'removed because of a fear they might enrage someone'- are there some examples in this country?

In what ways is the re writing of history pervading the arts? I just wonder what you have in mind, Scheherezade.

It is not as if there is some perfect production of Bayadere preserved in aspic from the 19thC which is somehow being threatened- is it? what we see is always a changing version re worked by each age that decides to stage it. Very dfferent from a painting which stays the same.

 

Did others see the Bolshoi Bayadere? I remember thinking it was really quite racist in parts- very different to the RB version.  There is another chance to see it in the live screening in January- and compare the two which could be interesting.

 

 

 

[Colman]

To be honest, I pretty much stop listening after any invocation of "PC". I seldom learn anything after that point, other than that the poster wants to be free to be rude without consequence.

[Jane S]

9 hours ago, Sophoife said:

 

And I was sure Greg Horsman's Bayadère for Queensland, West Australian and Winnipeg Ballets was set in the British Raj and the Solor part was a European so an example of a European smoking opium. Nope, oops, he's the son of the Maharajah of Cooch Behar, who's in love with fellow Indian the temple dancer Nikiya, but whose father has agreed a treaty with the East India Company that betrothes Solor to...the British Governor-General's daughter Edith. That's even less likely than that low-caste Solor is rewarded with the hand of the Rajah's daughter Gamzatti, as in Stanton Welch's version! Golly I think I'm going to stick with Makarova!

 

And in Nikolaj Hubbe's version for the Royal Danish Ballet - also set in the time of the British Raj - the Solor character really is European (an English lieutenant called William) -  but in the scene where other Solors smoke opium, he shoots himself dead.

[Richard LH]

1 hour ago, Lindsay said:

the number of people in this thread hopefully posting "historical" photos and trying to find ways to justify Bayadere as "accurate" is depressing

I think the only photos  are the three I posted - not to "hopefully" try to establish  La B as historically accurate (I see no requirement to try to "justify" its  "accuracy" on every, or indeed any point), but simply to counter  jmb's specific suggestion that temple dancers "flaunting their naked middles" was a "European fantasy". I'm sorry you find that depressing!

Also I think the responses here to jmb's post, and to the Luke Jennings-type arguments, have been thoughtful engagement. Quite a few people have expressed  disagreement and explained why, and to describe their response as "shouting down", and a knee jerk reaction, seems to me unnecessarily dismissive. 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Richard LH

[Richard LH]

27 minutes ago, Mary said:

Did others see the Bolshoi Bayadere? I remember thinking it was really quite racist in parts- very different to the RB version.

I have, and yes I see it as both quite racist in parts and very different to the RB version.

[Jan McNulty]

3 hours ago, Nogoat said:

 

 

NB: Luke Jennings' Nov 11th review of LB has appeared (presumably from the Observer) on the Guardian website - and it includes a reference to orientalism...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2018/nov/11/la-bayadere-royal-ballet-review-marianela-nunez-natalia-osipova

 

 

And, indeed, the review was included in Today's Links on Sunday 11th, where it can be read in full:  

 

 

[penelopesimpson]

33 minutes ago, Colman said:

To be honest, I pretty much stop listening after any invocation of "PC". I seldom learn anything after that point, other than that the poster wants to be free to be rude without consequence.

Dear Colman,

 

I think that is a horribly dismissive thing to say and pretty insulting to the many people who disagree with you.  If the abbreviation PC offends you (and it seems that everything offends somebody these days) I am happy to use something else - suggestions on a postcard please.

 

 PC stands for Political Correctness which is something this country currently has a surfeit of.  It is often used to describe a way of thinking mostly proscribed by the moral minority and often, although not always, completely lacking in common sense.  I use it precisely and accurately to describe attitudes that I think defy all reasoned thinking.  I do not need and never have used it as an excuse to be rude.  Just because many people find certain attitudes idiotic does not necessarily mean that they are wrong.  The same people dismiss the many millions of readers of the Daily Mail as if they are somehow too ill-educated, too zenophobic and altogether too moronic to form their own opinions.  That is precisely the attitude the government took in campaigning for us to stay in the EU and look how that ended up.  Like everything else, there is good and bad in the Daily Mail, the important thing is that people should be free to read it and draw their own conclusions.

 

As for La Bayadere, does anyone who buys a ticket honestly leave thinking that in the mysterious Orient they do nothing but parade around in silk pantaloons and smoke opium?  If that is the case, then we have a serious problem with our education system that has absolutely nothing to do with ballet.  Bayadere is not my favourite ballet but if we don't defend this piece of art, what hope for Butterfly, Manon, Carmen, Turandot......?

Edited November 13, 2018 by penelopesimpson

[penelopesimpson]

I forgot to ask, why would we need to 'justify Bayadere?'  If this rather silly but immensely enjoyable ballet is really trying to make some deep political point then, for the life of me, I have no idea what it is!

 

 

[RobR]

9 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

 

 

As for La Bayadere, does anyone who buys a ticket honestly leave thinking that in the mysterious Orient they do nothing but parade around in silk pantaloons and smoke opium?  If that is the case, then we have a serious problem with our education system that has absolutely nothing to do with ballet.

 

Absolutely. Presumably no one who goes to The Two Pigeons comes away thinking that the characters really typify the Roma. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by RobR
Typo

[penelopesimpson]

2 hours ago, Nogoat said:

 

Unfortunately, that brigade can be quite vocal and high-profile; here is an extract from Luke Jennings' LB review (my emphasis)...

 

"But there’s no getting around the fact that this is a deeply problematic ballet. With its inanely capering fakirs, lustful priests and blithe appropriation of Hindu, Islamic and Buddhist religious and cultural motifs, it’s pretty much a compendium of 19th-century orientalist attitudes.

Some commentators, bringing contemporary sensibilities to bear, advocate relocating the work to a non-specific, non-Indian setting and cutting out its offensive elements. Others would like to see the work excised from the ballet repertoire altogether."

I find it beggars belief that an arts critic should call for work to be removed.  I have seen some pretty offensive stuff on London stages over the years, a particular rape seen at ROH was somewhat OTT some years back, but I would never call for something to be censored.  I simply vote with my feet.

[Sebastian]

3 hours ago, Fonty said:

It would be a bit boring if every classical ballet was inspected by the PC brigade.  I can just imagine it.  Get rid of all that royalty, it is offensive to republicans, represents a time when the masses were repressed and starving, and those palace settings only serve to show the complete waste of money.  Get rid of tutus, it is sexist to have the girls flashing their thighs and showing their gussets to the audience, and objectifies women.  Get rid of all those ballets that show the female succumbing to the evil charms of a male, and requiring another man to rescue her.

 

Fonty, indeed, this has been tried. In the appendix to Tim Scholl's "Sleeping Beauty: A Legend in Progress" (2004) we find an account of a 1924 Soviet attempt to rewrite the Sleeping Beauty as part of the "creation of works of revolutionary content". This ended with the monarchy overthrown and Aurora anointed as the “wonderful dawn of Universal Revolution”. They called it The Sunny Commune. It seems it was never staged.

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Sebastian

[Colman]

Propaganda works. I mean, *obviously* everyone on this site is *far* too sophisticated to be influenced by (for example) repeated exposure to images of violent criminal "gypsies" that reinforce most of the rest of the cultural message about them, goes without saying, but it's possible there are ordinary mortals who might not have such well developed defences. 

 

Thinking is not the point. We're bad at thinking. Most often we use it to justify what we feel, and ballet and its portrayals speak directly to that. Which is why this stuff is potentially dangerous and needs to be thought about more carefully.

[FrankH]

12 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

I find it beggars belief that an arts critic should call for work to be removed.  I have seen some pretty offensive stuff on London stages over the years, a particular rape seen at ROH was somewhat OTT some years back, but I would never call for something to be censored.  I simply vote with my feet.

 

He didn't call for the work to be removed.

 

He mentioned a number of reactions to the ballet - among which he wrote "Others would like to see the work excised from the ballet repertoire altogether".

 

It is quite clear that what he wrote is true. Some would like it to be removed. That doesn't mean he agrees with it.

[annamk]

16 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

I find it beggars belief that an arts critic should call for work to be removed.  I have seen some pretty offensive stuff on London stages over the years, a particular rape seen at ROH was somewhat OTT some years back, but I would never call for something to be censored.  I simply vote with my feet.

 

Luke Jennings isn't actually calling for it to be removed, the quote is only an extract and his review goes on to say .... 

 

"Personally, I can’t imagine anyone taking La Bayadèreat face value, and I think that it should stand. Not as a monument to Europe’s one-time dominion over the Indian subcontinent and its peoples, but as a reminder of the repeated failure of colonial powers to comprehend civilisations older and subtler than their own."

[Vanartus]

Anyway despite all points, am very VERY looking forward to seeing the Osipova/Nuñez role swap tonight in Berlin...and Muntagirov too. BTW I probably am quite PC, read the Guardian, but I have no problem at all with either the Berlin or London productions. Nor Munich. Yes there are “elements” which may need to be revised from time to time (viz. “Chinese” dance in Nutcracker “, but on the whole LB is low very very very low on my list of wots-wrong-with-the world!

[Fonty]

I would just like to clarify something here.  When I used the term "PC Brigade" in my post, I certainly wasn't mocking or belittling anyone on this forum who has expressed reservations about LB.  I respect everyone's right to state their views, and I enjoy it when they are different to mine.  It provides a good basis for thought and discussion. 

 

I don't know how others use it, but for me the term covers people, usually in a position of authority, who attempt to speak on behalf of others, without actually asking those people what they think themselves.  

 

And I have no idea who Richard Littlejohn is, but judging by the posts on here I don't think I want to find out.  

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Fonty

[Richard LH]

22 minutes ago, annamk said:

 

Luke Jennings isn't actually calling for it to be removed, the quote is only an extract and his review goes on to say .... 

 

"Personally, I can’t imagine anyone taking La Bayadèreat face value, and I think that it should stand. Not as a monument to Europe’s one-time dominion over the Indian subcontinent and its peoples, but as a reminder of the repeated failure of colonial powers to comprehend civilisations older and subtler than their own."

 

No, Luke Jennings  didn't say he wanted it removed as such, but his reasoning for (kindly) allowing it to stand seems  only to be  as some sort of strange exemplar to teach us a  moral  history lesson about the  failures of  our  colonial past!  I find that a pretty pompous and self righteous  concept to try to bolt on to this partly bonkers, but overwhelmingly lovely ballet. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Richard LH

[Mary]

So who are these people who want to shut down the RB production of Bayadere, and where do they state that view - does anyone actually  know?

 

[LinMM]

Just to say am too looking forward to Bayadere tonight with a standing ticket by courtesy of someone from this Forum. 

I hadn't booked to see it twice originally but all the rave reviews here and from friends who have seen tonight's cast decided another visit was a must!! So am very pleased to have obtained this ticket.

Inspite of a few flaws in this ballet as soon as the music starts I 'm sure all will be forgiven on the historical front and I will be able to just revel in the wonderful dancing. 

Wont have IPad access for a few days so hope this thread is still open when I come back!!

 

[zxDaveM]

PC - Personal Computers!?!? Bill Gates is innocent!

 

Seriously, PC (the political correctness version) has its place in reducing vile racism, sexism, and other types of -isms. When I think back to the days of my youth, many people's ideologies were toe curlingly awful. 😳

The sad part is that the derision of PC, is starting to allow these 'values' (term used loosely) to creep back in, with the likes of the far right chiming in with 'PC gone mad' at every turn. Its an ugly path they want to lead us down...

 

Anyway, lets hope this thread returns to talking about the dancing

[Richard LH]

13 minutes ago, Mary said:

So who are these people who want to shut down the RB production of Bayadere, and where do they state that view - does anyone actually  know?

 

 

Indeed.... I don't know what "commentators" Luke Jennings is referring to, and it is almost as if he is  postulating such people simply to  it allow him to appear more reasonable as he floats his less drastic, and more clever idea of keeping  La Bayadere as a moral teaching point.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Richard LH

[Richard LH]

41 minutes ago, Vanartus said:

on the whole LB is low very very very low on my list of wots-wrong-with-the world

 

...yes, and to return to appreciation of the actual ballet, the artistry, the classicism, the acting/miming,  the costumes, and the music, all combine for  me to regard this beautiful production as pretty high on my list of wots-right-with-the -world!

Edited November 13, 2018 by Richard LH

[Anna C]

22 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Just to say am too looking forward to Bayadere tonight with a standing ticket by courtesy of someone from this Forum. 

I hadn't booked to see it twice originally but all the rave reviews here and from friends who have seen tonight's cast decided another visit was a must!! So am very pleased to have obtained this ticket.

Inspite of a few flaws in this ballet as soon as the music starts I 'm sure all will be forgiven on the historical front and I will be able to just revel in the wonderful dancing. 

Wont have IPad access for a few days so hope this thread is still open when I come back!!

 

 

How lovely, Lin! Enjoy.  I was fortunate to see Takada, Naghdi and Mcrae on Saturday but am going to the cinema tonight to enjoy it all over again.  Have a super evening. ☺️

[Xandra Newman]

31 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

 

Indeed.... I don't know what "commentators" Luke Jennings is referring to, and it is almost as if he is  postulating such people simply to  it allow him to appear more reasonable as he floats his less drastic, and more clever idea of keeping  La Bayadere as a moral teaching point.

 

It's not the first time Luke Jennings (seemingly) takes every possible opportunity to be strangely critical of the RB. Does he have a hang up somewhere? His reviews over the past few years have been strange to say the least. I used to enjoy reading his reviews in the past, found them balanced and intelligent but in recent years there is always a bitter undertone in his critic. I no longer read his reviews. 

[Mary]

I am really looking forward to the screening too- just wondering if the best bits can possibly live up to the memory of first night....

 

I wonder if there any changes in the cast from then? ( light the blue touchpaper and retire...)

 

[Sim]

Luke Jennings should perhaps concentrate on getting the act correct when referring to the Shades, instead of pontificating about our colonial past....

 

Anyway to everyone who is going to the ROH or the cinema this evening, I hope you are all wowed by the gorgeous artistry on display all round.  

[Douglas Allen]

I do enjoy a good spat - though I've no intention to join in, this time.

What I did want to mention was if anyone remembers the Maryinsky's  presentation of the Vikharev reworking of Bayadere at Covent Garden about twenty or so years ago? It was originally billed as a reconstruction of the original, though it turned out to be nothing of the sort. Vikharev took the soviet-era reworking of the ballet (by Vaganova, Dudinskaya, Ponamarev and Chaboukiani) and slotted in as much as could be reconstructed from the Stepanov notation, which consisted largely of an additional pas d'action, some character dances and several processionals. These, together with a repositioning in the ballet of some dances for Nikya and Solor, made the evening much longer (about 45-50 minutes longer than the Makarova production) and the whole affair much statelier and grander. It made the Makarova version seem quite speedy and brisk (words not often used in connection with Makarova!). 

The most satisfying production, in my view, is Nureyev's for Paris. It is grand and spectacular (from memory I think the designs are by Enzo Frigiero ) and the choreography is technically demanding (much more so than in the Makarova version)  and appropriate.

Finally, can anyone confirm if the Royal Ballet have performed the Nureyev version of the shades act since they took the Makarova full-length version into the rep? I can't recall their doing so, but I may be mistaken.