'Evidence-based' marketing at the ROH - that would explain a lot!

[James]

At today’s Friends’ rehearsal, poor Gary Avis gave a speech before curtain up asking us to consider leaving money to the ROH in our wills. Seems as if they do need us regulars after all - but only once we are dead. 

[Fiz]

Poor Gary!

[Sophoife]

Hah Australian Ballet has a whole team of people dedicated to getting people to sign on the dotted line for bequests. If they actually used dancers, we might!*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* NOT

[Sim]

1 hour ago, James said:

At today’s Friends’ rehearsal, poor Gary Avis gave a speech before curtain up asking us to consider leaving money to the ROH in our wills. Seems as if they do need us regulars after all - but only once we are dead. 

Thank goodness for the ROH we can only die once instead of multiple times.   Unless of course we bequeath them money, in which case they would welcome our constant returns.  

[penelopesimpson]

49 minutes ago, James said:

At today’s Friends’ rehearsal, poor Gary Avis gave a speech before curtain up asking us to consider leaving money to the ROH in our wills. Seems as if they do need us regulars after all - but only once we are dead. 

Oh my goodness.  Don't know whether to laugh or cry.  Would I leave money to an organisation that doesn't appear to want me?  No.  I'm leaving what's left to dog charities.  

 

This is a new line of marketing though for one of the many agencies ROH seems to use to consider.

 

Question:  How shall we target the dead?

Answer:     'Well, I suppose we'll have to get them before they go.'

                    'But they may not know they're going?'

                    'No, but we could get them in for coffee and a loyalty card that is good for the next world.'

                    'Trouble is, the sort of person who might consider a legacy is our core audience whom we've just said we want to see less of.'

                    'Hmm.  Take your point.  Well, we've just got to get as much money off them as possible before they keel over.  Back to Plan  A.  Told you it's all about raising prices.'

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by penelopesimpson

[Tony Newcombe]

Mine’s going to the other Royal dance company!

[ninamargaret]

with the money we spend on tickets there's little chance that any will be left!

[Timmie]

On 07/10/2018 at 09:55, Sim said:

Has there been any response at all from the ROH regarding the contents of the article?  

 

Just received (I have deleted names to avoid any rule breaches):

 

"Dear Mr xxx,

 

Thank you for your email. I’m sorry you feel that the ticket pricing structure does not provide a benefit to you and for any offence caused by the article you mention.

 

I would like to reassure you that it is categorically not our objective to reduce the frequency of performances that members can attend. The Royal Opera House simply could not stage the world-class ballets and operas it is renowned for without the generous support of our members. In tandem with this, and in order for our beloved art forms to survive long into the future, we must also reach new audiences so that we can nurture the next generation of opera and ballet lovers.

 

I thank you for your feedback and hope that we can continue to welcome you and other members here in the future.

 

Best wishes,

 

yyy

yyy 
Interim Head of Friends and Fundraising Campaigns"

Edited October 9, 2018 by Timmie
added quotation marks

[penelopesimpson]

8 minutes ago, Timmie said:

 

Just received (I have deleted names to avoid any rule breaches):

 

"Dear Mr xxx,

 

Thank you for your email. I’m sorry you feel that the ticket pricing structure does not provide a benefit to you and for any offence caused by the article you mention.

 

I would like to reassure you that it is categorically not our objective to reduce the frequency of performances that members can attend. The Royal Opera House simply could not stage the world-class ballets and operas it is renowned for without the generous support of our members. In tandem with this, and in order for our beloved art forms to survive long into the future, we must also reach new audiences so that we can nurture the next generation of opera and ballet lovers.

 

I thank you for your feedback and hope that we can continue to welcome you and other members here in the future.

 

Best wishes,

 

yyy

yyy 
Interim Head of Friends and Fundraising Campaigns"

Hmm.  Not what I would describe as fulsome.  And, yet again, it's the customer who is in the wrong for being offended.  It is also completely opposite to what the piece says which is quite explicit.

[bridiem]

27 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

Hmm.  Not what I would describe as fulsome.  And, yet again, it's the customer who is in the wrong for being offended.  It is also completely opposite to what the piece says which is quite explicit.

 

Exactly. 'Sorry that you feel x or have been offended by y. We really value our members.'

 

What a rubbish response. The report specifically says one thing, and this email pretends that it doesn't. And it treats Timmie as a delicate flower who is simply upset and offended for no reason at all. Patronising rubbish.

[Bruce Wall]

12 minutes ago, bridiem said:

Patronising rubbish.

 

Exactly.

 

Also can't believe they made Avis make a stage plea for bequests.  To my nostrils that holds an anguished whiff of desperation.  

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Bruce Wall

[Geoff]

8 minutes ago, Bruce Wall said:

Also can't believe that they made Avis make a stage plea for bequests.  To my mind that smells of desperation.  

 

Bruce, you and others have commented on this. I agree there is an element of bad timing about doing this in the same week as we have been told we should attend less often, but is it the request as such which bothers you or that they asked Gary Avis to do it? Last season Vivien Duffield did a pitch for bequests (rather well) a couple of times at the start of Generals so it is not a new thing in and of itself. 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Geoff

[Timmie]

12 minutes ago, bridiem said:

...it treats Timmie as a delicate flower who is simply upset and offended for no reason at all...

 

, they know me so well... 

[Mary]

45 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

I would like to reassure you that it is categorically not our objective to reduce the frequency of performances that members can attend. 

It is probably just that the author of the letter at ROH can't write English but...in fact, the offensive statement was about ROH seeking to reduce ticket sales to regulars. Not  the same as reducing the number of times they CAN attend. So possibly this is a deliberate twisting.

But -

'reduce the frequency of performances they can attend' doesn't make sense ( meaning presumably reduce the number) . So possibly it is just incompetent writing.

What do they mean by Members? Do they mean Friends?

 

The second part is just cut and paste from the official response.

It took 3 seconds to cobble together some gobbledygook. That is not really good enough.

 

[Timmie]

An extract from the email I sent, which includes quotes from the article which started all this, is:

 

'A particularly disturbing sentence, attributed to Lucy Sinclair, Director of Media and Audiences is, “the frequency of attendance of regular customers might need to reduce” and this is achieved by “increase price just enough to reduce frequency of attendance”.'

 

This is where the frequency of attendance wording comes from. And yes, Members = Friends.

[ninamargaret]

I recently received a very lavishly produced booklet inviting me to leave money to them. Can't think how much it must have cost to produce!

[Geoff]

1 hour ago, Timmie said:

Just received

 

Their response is insulting.

 

41 minutes ago, Mary said:

It is probably just that the author of the letter at ROH can't write English but...in fact, the offensive statement was about ROH seeking to reduce ticket sales to regulars. Not  the same as reducing the number of times they CAN attend. So possibly this is a deliberate twisting.

The second part is just cut and paste from the official response.

It took 3 seconds to cobble together some gobbledygook. That is not really good enough.

 

Timmie, I agree with Mary and Bridiem (etc) and would suggest that you should reply to the nameless ROH clown on similar lines to that which Mary suggests. Otherwise if we put up with their nonsense they will get the idea we are as stupid as they think we are. 

 

You might also like to copy your reply to the ROH boss, Alex Beard, as a way of showing him that the "Interim Head" isn't filling the position very well. 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Geoff

[Mary]

35 minutes ago, Timmie said:

the frequency of attendance of regular customers might need to reduce”

- is not the same as 'reduce the frequency of performances they can attend'

Anyway- just someone garbling some text- shows they were not thinking at all.

[alison]

6 hours ago, Timmie said:

I would like to reassure you that it is categorically not our objective to reduce the frequency of performances that members can attend. 

 

No, of course not.  They merely want to "nudge" you into more expensive seats  

[taxi4ballet]

I've spent the better part of the last 40 years in accounting, and their thinking on this matter is completely arse about face and as far from common sense as it is possible to get. 'Scuse the mild vulgarity, but this sort of thing really riles me.

 

[bridiem]

8 hours ago, alison said:

 

No, of course not.  They merely want to "nudge" you into more expensive seats  

 

And if you can't afford more expensive seats, you will end up coming less often. 'But that's not our OBJECTIVE.' Politician-speak.

[alison]

Yep.  I could of course pay double what I pay for my seats, but come half as often (except that I wouldn't, because I would baulk at paying that sort of money for many of the casts).  That would free up some more seats for newcomers, but wouldn't do much for me.

 

Except that of course, not being a Friend, I only book through public booking anyway, so any newcomer has an equal chance with me of getting tickets in the first place, provided they get their act together.  Should it be any harder to be ready to book tickets on the first day of public booking than, say, when booking opens on the next batch of Hamilton tickets?

[Fonty]

"The ongoing challenge is to realise the full lifetime value of that core market while also ‘opening up’. As Lucy describes, this presents challenging decisions as they seek to spread risk by growing the core audience and generating new audiences"

Just been reading this article again to refresh my memory.  It seems to be a business mantra now, that the core customers will remain, no matter what decisions are made. Therefore all the ideas for generating more income are directed towards new people.  Forget the old, target the new.  Hence you have the sort of thinking shown by organisations such as the BBC.   They discover that the core audience for some of their radio stations is aged over 40. This obviously will not do.  They need to attract more youngsters, to show the politicians that they are not catering purely to middle aged people.  So they come up with the brilliant idea of either changing or getting rid of established, popular programmes,  and going for something that they think will appeal to the under 25s.  They assume that this age group will tune in, and replace all those old fogeys.  Of course, by doing this, they lose their existing audience.  And then they wonder why the listening figures have gone down.

 

I am not saying that the ROH will be as bad as this, but I would hate to think that future programmes will be chosen on the basis of what they think a younger audience will want to  come and see.  

 

And talking of the Open Up campaign, I have been walking past a poster at tube stations for a while now, which advertises the fact that the ROH is open from 10am every day.  Unfortunately, that is just about all it says. No other information, and not even a decent picture of the building.  Not sure this particular piece of marketing will have a whole new audience flocking through the doors.  I only noticed it in the first place because I was looking for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ninamargaret]

Slightly away from topic, but the ROH is the meanest of all publicly subsidised theatres as far as discounts are concerned.I know they have their access list, but seats are not discounted unless you are on benefits, in which case you would be unlikely to be able to afford the cost with the small discount offered. Because of mobility problems I need to choose my seats carefully, and while the access list promises help with this it's,not much good if the seat that you need is unaffordable! Opera prices are especially eye watering - for Queen of Spades I would have to pay at least £147 even if i could get one of the few available at that price.Can understand why they don't offer senior discounts - far too many of us golden oldies attend - not what they want unless it's to swell their coffers!

[Pas de Quatre]

Isn't it that type of thinking - chase the youngsters - that has been the downfall of M&S and other businesses? 

[alison]

2 hours ago, ninamargaret said:

Can understand why they don't offer senior discounts - far too many of us golden oldies attend - not what they want unless it's to swell their coffers!

 

I was told many years ago that they would be available to far too many of their core audience!  What bugs me, though ... well, has anyone tried getting a standby off them in the past decade?  I know the place generally sells out, but I'd be interested to see whether they offer any for some of these Mayerlings which appear to have lots of tickets left.  I think I remember getting one from them for a cheapo seat when I was trying to combine something in the Linbury with Rite of Spring, but that's it.

[Blossom]

1 hour ago, Fonty said:

 

And talking of the Open Up campaign, I have been walking past a poster at tube stations for a while now, which advertises the fact that the ROH is open from 10am every day.  Unfortunately, that is just about all it says. No other information, and not even a decent picture of the building.  Not sure this particular piece of marketing will have a whole new audience flocking through the doors.  I only noticed it in the first place because I was looking for it.

 

That sounds like a complete waste of money and won’t deliver the sort of ROI any Arts Council funding might generate. Surely they should at least talk about the free lunchtime events which might bring some new people in. Or Month of Sunday’s. Out of interest, would love to know what sort of things have been presented in the Linbury foyer and Crush Room. 

 

In terms of bringing in new and younger people, as I said previously, sampling ballet content could help them out, or even mirroring ENB and BRB’s kids’ programmes (My First Ballet). BBC symphonia and others also run children focussed events which are inexpensive and they seem to ‘recruit’ through social media so huge opportunity to seek out diverse audiences.I also think they could probably create some online content or mail packs for primary schools to explore key pieces of music and use that as a way to signpost key family events and pique curiousity among broader audiences than Chance to Dance. My son’s class did a lovely music topic last year on Peter and the Wolf which looked at instruments and musical themes for each character - this was in year 1. Basically I think their downfall will be that they don’t seem to be playing the long game, only short term wins which will likely result in one off seat purchases. I know plenty of parents who are happy to take their kids to a My First Ballet annually but would never consider going to see a full length ballet with or without their kids. 

 

If you look look at other industries like car buying, once you are with a brand, they aim to keep you by encouraging you to trade up a product - so from a Fiesta to a saloon car to potentially a big family sized car as your lifestage changes. In my opinion, that’s how they need to secure audience growth.  A lovely job done at the kids concert I went to at the Barbican at the weekend, both the programme leaflet and a separate leaflet on exit shared the next event which is less symphony orchestra and more focussed on singing and storytelling.  And while the family Sunday events at ROH are lovely, there’s nothing really which specifically encourages repeat visits (ie beyond welcome performances) to get to sit in a proper theatre and see wonderful dancing and listen to great classical music. Linbury is the perfect place for this.

 

I just get the impression that they are very much in their own ROH bubble and don’t learn from all of the wonderful engagement programmes going on around them. They do some lovely work independently, especially with digital outreach but I imagine their content arm mostly drives fame among national and international ballet goers.

[penelopesimpson]

I think they also forget that it is the despised older audience who, mainly, patronise the restaurants and bars whose revenue is vital to the place.

[ninamargaret]

37 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

I think they also forget that it is the despised older audience who, mainly, patronise the restaurants and bars whose revenue is vital to the place.

certainly true at The Ring. About three quarters of those eating and drinking in the PH were elderly, and there was quite a lot of eating and drinking going on!  Many years ago my mother and a friend ran a small theatre cafe and even in those distant days it was often said that the cafe frequently took more money than the theatre!

37 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

 

 

[Sim]

I don't really understand this panic about finding new audiences.  The ROH, in its various incarnations, has been presenting opera and ballet for more than 200 years.  The audiences keep replenishing with each generation.  If that didn't happen, it wouldn't still exist.  Is there a particular worry about the current 'young generation'?  I don't remember in years past all these efforts to find the next generation audience, and yet here we all are.

[ninamargaret]

In the old days of the Soviet Union, it was once said that when the old religiously minded babushkayas died the churches would finally close. The reply was 'there will always be babushkayas'. For 'babushkayas' read ballet lovers!

[alison]

24 minutes ago, Sim said:

I don't really understand this panic about finding new audiences.  The ROH, in its various incarnations, has been presenting opera and ballet for more than 200 years.  The audiences keep replenishing with each generation.  If that didn't happen, it wouldn't still exist.  Is there a particular worry about the current 'young generation'?  I don't remember in years past all these efforts to find the next generation audience, and yet here we all are.

 

Well, when I first started going back in the late 80s, I was enticed in by standbys and discounted tickets for the under-30s - although I distinctly recall the auditorium being rather less full than it is these days.  That was back in the days when the top price was a heady £33!  With regard to today's "young generation", I'd hazard a guess that it's a combination of lack of exposure at school and at home, short attention spans, and too many competing attractions and distractions - many involving screens of various sizes.

[Geoff]

More helpful comments have been posted on the original article, worth checking back:

 

https://www.artsprofessional.co.uk/magazine/article/dancing-pinhead-pricing

 

I wonder if Lucy Sinclair of the ROH feels she only speaks to her bosses, her paid advisers and the Arts Council, or whether she might also consider the public? This is turning into quite a mess so her ongoing silence is unfortunate.