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The "new" Royal Opera House, Covent Garden


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1 hour ago, bangorballetboy said:

Whatever can be done to encourage people into cultural establishments, without significantly discouraging those already engaged, is IMHO essential.  

 

Absolutely agree, on both counts.  But here are largely my "Yes, buts ...":

 

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There are some viewing issues from certain areas when the theatre is in "proscenium" set-up (the second rows on the sides) and when the pit is in use (a couple of affected seats) but am understanding of this as the theatre is designed to be flexible

 

But the serious sightline issues from the sides are a structural issue, I think, and I'm not sure they would even be resolved in an in-the-round production (and how frequent are those likely to be, anyway?).  I remain bemused that computer modelling (which I assume all architects would use these days?) didn't appear to highlight this early on.

 

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The shop has better visability to people entering from the piazza and is much easier to move around than before. 

 

Both true.  However, it still doesn't stock the specialist magazines as it used to, and they were virtually the only reason I went in there :(  (I wonder how much the circulation figures of the Dancing Times and Dance Europe have dropped over the past 3 years?)

 

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The flexible "box office/cloakroom counter" that was originally proposed would, I feel, have been better than the current situation

 

That may yet turn up, I guess.

 

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The additional staircase to the bottom of the escalators is a boon, but does mean that areas of the auditorium can be reached without passing a programme desk and this is something that should be given some further thought.

 

 

Yes.  And it's also currently creating an access issue, during events in the Hall, for anyone foolish enough to pop up to the amphi/terrace in the breaks.  That could be very easily resolved by allowing people coming down by the escalator into the hall without making them do a significant detour round the building, but as far as I'm aware that hasn't happened yet.

 

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I have no issue with people using the new foyer area for socialising or sitting on their computer or whatever. 

 

No, although I suspect it had been hoped to make more money out of them than may actually be the case.

 

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I've not really seen the tablets that are available for browsing and booking tickets being used.  Perhaps some signage here would be useful.

 

 

I wasn't even aware of their existence, and I've been down in the café area a few times.  Presumably they use a more secure system than the ROH public wi-fi?

 

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I am disappointed that more thought was not given to people flow in this area.  Having just one programme/ice cream desk and it being by the auditorium door by the bottom of the grand staircase means that a major bottleneck is created through people queuing at the desk (particularly at the beginning of intervals).  This could be fixed quite easily.

 

Yes, it was bad enough when they had two, but limiting it to one is just daft.  Plus there are all those pesky regulars trying to read the cast changes :) 

 

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Some better signage in the direction of the ladies' toilets would also, I feel, be useful.

 

 

My impression of the new signage (I don't pay that much attention to it) - and I'm not just referring to the toilets - is that although classy-looking the actual images are quite small and may not be being picked up on.

 

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To me, the new system is easy to follow with the G, 1, 2, 3 etc. representing the floor of the building and the letters showing the doors from left to right as you look at the auditorium.  This is much easier for a newcomer to understand, particularly if you bear in mind that the nomenclature for the areas of the auditorium are different to almost every other theatre or performance space in the country. 

 

I've no objection to them marking the doors that way, and it may well help some people find their seats better - my objection is where the other designations have been removed from the doors, so I sometimes find I have to stick my head inside the auditorium to work out where I am.  Given that the ROH is still selling its tickets according to Orchestra Stalls, Stalls Circle, Grand Tier etc. (and is that likely to change to "Level 1", "Level 2" etc.?  I hope not) it seems to make sense still to have some acknowledgement of those inside the theatre.  And I would find the amphi situation (where I don't think you tend to go too often?) rather more confusing with its multiplicity of levels.  Only the other day I had to put some people right who were totally on the wrong side of the building for their seats, up the "back stairs" on the Floral Street side of the building, so obviously it's not always clear to everybody.  At least putting "Left" or "Right" back on the tickets would be a help.

 

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The intention behind the project is good and there are people coming into the building that weren't doing so before.  We'll just have to wait and see how this translates into attendance (and re-attendance) figures at shows.

 

Quite - and hope there aren't too many people who still manage to have no idea that there are performances going on, like the person quoted somewhere earlier in this thread!  I do still think that more could be done in the café area to highlight the fact, though.

 

(PS: There were quite a few points of yours that I wanted to agree with, but I was getting really fed up having to scroll up and down to put things in quotes, so ended up tending to limit myself to the others!)

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With regard to the access issue I mentioned above, I've remembered what it was: between a couple of Ballet Studio Live events I decided to go and get some fresh air on the terrace, so exited by the escalator (where it was exit only) and went up to the amphitheatre.  On attempting to return, I realised that the doors to the amphitheatre passage - and hence the back stairs and, I think, any lifts - were shut, so I had no choice but to go back down the escalator, and then was refused entry to the Hamlyn Hall there.  That meant a major detour all the way down the new flight of stairs, through the café into the old foyer, back up the stairs into the Hall and then all the way across the Hall to get to my seat, which is highly disabled-unfriendly. 

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5 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

Have you attended less as a direct result of any of the changes?

No, I haven't but just because there is no alternative.  Were there a new Opera House in town who found the idea of attracting and then looking after its regular patrons a strong marketing proposition, I would patronise it.  

 

I think you rather make my point that ROH has a monopoly and has therefore decided to largely ignore its loyal customers on the basis of 'well, they'll come anyway.'  That is an unattractive approach and one that is totally unnecessary.  

 

It seems to me that rather than being the top-hatted champagne swilling over-monied toffs of legend that the Chief Exec clearly believes to be is his Regulars, ROH patrons are actually rather lovely people who put up with a lot in order to indulge their passions - for which they pay a lot of money.  Ignoring them is pretty horrid, really.

Edited by penelopesimpson
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I do wonder what the reception to the new-look house might have been had that Arts Professional article about ticket prices never appeared, or at least had it appeared without those rather injudicious quotes from the ROH.

 

My view is that I don’t care much either way about the physical changes to the building, but it’s the other stuff which has left a sour taste: the needless tinkering with the cast list format; the ongoing confusion about cast changes - and enough posters have said they still find it a problem that we can’t argue that it isn’t one; the across-the-board price increases; the inept absence of limits on Forza ticket purchases; the expected late announcement of next season, which looks unprofessional; and most of all the many problems with the website. This all adds up IMO to an organisation which appears to have taken its eye off the ball.

 

In answer to BBB’s question, I’m going as much as ever this year but as Penelope says it’s because if you want to “buy” the Royal Ballet or the Royal Opera you don’t have a choice: the ROH has an effective monopoly on the supply of them. What I have cut right down on is programmes, which I used to buy nearly routinely and now buy not at all; and refreshments, which I used to buy more than half the time and now buy rarely. I’m also a lot less likely to donate money in future and once the new season is announced I’ll renew my Friends membership grudgingly and only if I decide it’s worth it.

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While agreeing with much of bangerballetboy’s comments and appreciating his focus is more on the new building aspect, I’m afraid I place more significance on what is not mentioned.  I remain firmly of the view that the Royal Opera House needs to:

 

Publicise Opera and Ballet performances in all Open Up areas with conviction (which could include bringing the Box Office into the Open Up area so there is much more of a focus on what’s on);

Make the most of its website (which has lost so much functionality since its refresh); 

Ensure its pricing policy promotes accessibility and complements Open Up (we await the 2017-18 annual report to be published next month to see what %age of tickets sold for less than £x etc).

 

These comments have received a fair amount of attention on this thread and elsewhere on the Forum and I think Open Up would be massively enhanced if they were addressed.

 

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A few general thoughts in reply to BBB's post, in no particular order:

 

1.  The shop. I only ever went in to buy a dance magazine, or an annual calendar, and as Alison says they don't seem to have those any more, which is most disappointing.  Just making a general point about the shop, presumably it makes money, or they wouldn't have one.  But I am always puzzled as to how much of the stuff seems to be aimed at the casual tourist, with no particular relevance to the Opera House.  Do people really go to a performance and think, "Oh, I must pick up a scented candle while I am here?"  Or a set of gold coloured ice tongs?  And I am astounded that people are prepared to pay £20 for a key ring.  They really must be the wealthy elite!

 

2. Amphitheatre Restaurant  Like Penelope, I really used to enjoy eating there.  I've tried the new place once.  The removal of the wall between the restaurant and bar area means that the constant flow of people coming up the escalators is distracting, and as they stepped outside I found I was sitting in a draft.  It was as though I was eating in a railway station.  I suppose it depends on where you sit, but I am still at a loss to know why anyone would think this could be called an improvement. 

 

3.  New Foyer Area

23 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

I have no issue with people using the new foyer area for socialising or sitting on their computer or whatever.  This is a useful public space and those who don't like it do not have to go anywhere near it, given the access to the "old" foyer from Bow Street and access to all parts of the theatre from there.

 

Yes it is a useful public space, but as many people have pointed out, should money be spent on providing this?   I don't think it is fair to dismiss unfavourable comments by saying, "You don't have to go there."  Of course we don't, but that isn't the point.  My complaint is that it is such an anonymous space, I could be having a coffee in Starbucks.  I don't like or dislike it, it is so bland there is nothing to arouse any emotion in me.  When the Box Office was in the old position, they used to have clips of various rehearsals or interviews with artists, complete with subtitles projected on one of the walls.  I often used to stop and watch it before going in, and saw some very interesting interviews.  They still have something, but because of the height and angle of the new position, I could see very little of it in most of the seats I tried.  And even then, from what I could see, it seemed to be the sort of revolving short sequences that are completely meaningless...a headdress, some feet in pointe shoes, someone in costume presumably singing as they mouth is opening and closing.  Who they were, what it was supposed to represent?  Not given.  If they want to interest the casual visitor in the ROH's activities, this is a golden opportunity to do so, and it isn't there.  

 

Eventually, we will all get used to it.  In the same way that we will all get used to the new website.  However, personally I don't think some of the major changes could be described as improvements.  Simply change for the sake of change, it seems to me.   

 

 

Edited by Fonty
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23 minutes ago, Fonty said:

When the Box Office was in the old position, they used to have clips of various rehearsals or interviews with artists, complete with subtitles projected on one of the walls.  I often used to stop and watch it before going in, and saw some very interesting interviews.  They still have something, but because of the height and angle of the new position, I could see very little of it in most of the seats I tried.  And even then, from what I could see, it seemed to be the sort of revolving short sequences that are completely meaningless...a headdress, some feet in pointe shoes, someone in costume presumably singing as they mouth is opening and closing.  Who they were, what it was supposed to represent?  Not given.  If they want to interest the casual visitor in the ROH's activities, this is a golden opportunity to do so, and it isn't there.  

 

 

Exactly, Fonty.  I'm not sure that where they are projected is the best place for those sitting in the café area (aka captive audience) to see them, which does seem like a missed opportunity.  It seems to me that the new flight of stairs is in the way.

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21 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

Have you attended less as a direct result of any of the changes?

 

Slightly off topic but I have - not as a result of the Open Up project per se, but because of the price rises and lack of suitable seats available on General Booking day.  ☹️

 

I had a thought about Level names/numbers - why not have both? For example “Stalls Circle Left (1D)” or whatever the corresponding number and letter is.  Bit of an odd comparison but this works well on cruise ships where you have “Deck 7: Panorama Deck” and so on.

 

Like the re-introduction of the second programme desk in the old foyer, this seems relatively easy to implement.

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51 minutes ago, Fonty said:

A few general thoughts in reply to BBB's post, in no particular order:

 

1.  The shop. I only ever went in to buy a dance magazine, or an annual calendar, and as Alison says they don't seem to have those any more, which is most disappointing.  Just making a general point about the shop, presumably it makes money, or they wouldn't have one.  But I am always puzzled as to how much of the stuff seems to be aimed at the casual tourist, with no particular relevance to the Opera House.  Do people really go to a performance and think, "Oh, I must pick up a scented candle while I am here?"  Or a set of gold coloured ice tongs?  And I am astounded that people are prepared to pay £20 for a key ring.  They really must be the wealthy elite!

 

The shop already stocks the 2020 calendar, although I won’t buy mine just yet in case the dates change.

 

I think too much space is given to generic items that you’d find in any National Trust shop or in the case of a book shaped lamp, John Lewis and not enough to ballet and opera items, the books and dvds are in a very small area.

 

The National Gallery shop is probably the best  place in London for art books as well as offering items related to works on display, it’s not full of stuff from the Selfridges homeware department. 

Edited by Rob S
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My thoughts exactly, Fonty, about the new downstairs area (what ARE we meant to call it?)  Like yourself, it is hard to be harsh about it because it is now a space completely devoid of either purpose or atmosphere.  If the raison d'etre was to attract new people to the Opera House, I would call it a failure.  It may be getting 'new' people in but in what way are they even made aware that it is an Opera House or the home of the Royal Ballet?  As you said, it is simply a huge soulless place with no defined purpose.  There was no more depressing experience than the other night.  On a high after seeing Kaufmann, people buzzing down the stairs with praise and then...long queues in a dreary area where to make space for more queues the chairs had been stacked on top of the tables and somebody was mopping the floor infront of and behind the coffee bar.  Talk about the party's over, out you go folks.

 

I was at The Bridge Theatre the other night (stunning design, urge people to visit) and in the foyer afterwards the bar was open, people were enjoying a drink and then wandering outside to look at the river.  Coffee was available and all other refreshments for as long as people wanted them.  Given that ROH have spent all this money creating a terrace, will it be available for use post performance?

 

It must have taken real effort to achieve a design that lacks any personality at all and that virtually nullifies the joy I usually feel after a performance.

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25 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

 

It must have taken real effort to achieve a design that lacks any personality at all and that virtually nullifies the joy I usually feel after a performance.

Agree totally. I call it ' the caff' It's OK if you want a coffee before the performance but that's about it. After the performance it is ghastly and just gives the impression that 'we've,taken your money, now hurry up and go'  Many years ago I used,to go to many concerts in the RFH, and part of the pleasure,was to be able to have a drink after the performance, . I know concerts finish earlier than opera or ballet, but the dismal sight of stacked chairs and queues fighting to retrieve coats is not a,good end to the evening.

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58 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

I was at The Bridge Theatre the other night (stunning design, urge people to visit) and in the foyer afterwards the bar was open, people were enjoying a drink and then wandering outside to look at the river.  Coffee was available and all other refreshments for as long as people wanted them.  Given that ROH have spent all this money creating a terrace, will it be available for use post performance?

 

 

 

Agree about The Bridge Theatre, I went there for the first time recently, and was really impressed.  

 


 

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4 hours ago, Anna C said:

 

I had a thought about Level names/numbers - why not have both? For example “Stalls Circle Left (1D)” or whatever the corresponding number and letter is.  Bit of an odd comparison but this works well on cruise ships where you have “Deck 7: Panorama Deck” and so on.

 

Like the re-introduction of the second programme desk in the old foyer, this seems relatively easy to implement.

 

The combination of name and designated door number/letter would be ideal, so I doubt that will happen

 

They could also do with a programme/cast sheet/ice sale point in the proximity to the big escalator, to catch those that sweep in from the piazza and straight up the stairs. Though I suppose now that most ushers carry copies of cast sheets that becomes less vital for me personally.

 

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Just received ....literally...my ticket for the June triple! 

It says

Level 3

Door 3B  Row/Box C  Balcony( in smaller print) seat 40 

So yes does seem to say old area name but it's in much smaller print than the rest.

I do think it would be helpful to put the left and right back in though of course eventually you do get use to the new system .....I'm guessing off the top of my head that seat 40 will be on the right side but will still need to check nearer the time!! 

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Door 3B is on the left.  As are 1B, 2B (or not 2B, that is the question) and 5B.

 

That's part of the simplicity of the new door numbering.  The lettering is consistent across the floors (except for the ground floor, which is the only floor to have a door into the auditorium in the centre).

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I meant  right when looking at the seating plan when you are booking  ......so yes probably left if mean you are in the theatre facing the stage!! 

But thanks anyway.

I think I now know why my mum called me an "awkward Annie" 

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Rather amused - a couple of days ago I managed to get  a decent ticket that was just about affordable for Boris Godunov. I managed to delete the donation - I cannot cope with high prices AND donations, and was then asked if I would like to complete my 'experience' by booking dinner! Seems to me they would prefer people,who book experiences rather than people like us,who go to the theatre! To me, an experience is a one off happening. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

I was in the box office on Saturday afternoon and apparently there's going to be a trial run of moving it back into the main building, pretty close to where it used to be. It's scheduled to take place on June 10th. I won't be around that date to go and make use of it, but they'd really like to get plenty of customers and get moved back in permanently, if anyone else is able to do so. I'm sure that the box office being stuck out on the corner separate from the building encourages very few people to make use of it, find out about productions and buy tickets. The staff are so helpful and knowledgeable, and I guess it has been a miserable experience.

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1 hour ago, daisydance said:

The staff are so helpful and knowledgeable

 

Agreed.  I’m hoping to get some advice on how to book ‘packages’ for the Autumn ... which may of course depress box office income.

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One would hope that the new Director of Audiences etc. would be able to recognise that, of course, the public-facing, knowledgeable box office staff ought to be viewed as a primary instrument (no pun intended) in the quest "to engage and grow current and future audiences."  Far more use in that respect than bar and shop staff.

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On 11/04/2019 at 16:53, bangorballetboy said:

Door 3B is on the left.  As are 1B, 2B (or not 2B, that is the question) and 5B.

 

That's part of the simplicity of the new door numbering.  The lettering is consistent across the floors (except for the ground floor, which is the only floor to have a door into the auditorium in the centre).

I'd love it if they just said Left or Right, as they always used to do.  That's how I still think.  Fortunately, I still have seat numbers versus left or right in my head. 

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Well on Saturday the box office couldn’t find my tickets for R&J (which I had asked for them to hold) and then gave me the wrong ones (My Firebird ones) and then told me that the ROH aim was to phase out paper tickets. 

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3 minutes ago, Shade said:

Well on Saturday the box office couldn’t find my tickets for R&J (which I had asked for them to hold) and then gave me the wrong ones (My Firebird ones) and then told me that the ROH aim was to phase out paper tickets. 

 

They could start by changing the online booking process so it doesn’t default to paper tickets.

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26 minutes ago, Shade said:

Well on Saturday the box office couldn’t find my tickets for R&J (which I had asked for them to hold) and then gave me the wrong ones (My Firebird ones) and then told me that the ROH aim was to phase out paper tickets. 

 

I have to say I do find it surprising ROH do paper ticket still as a default, especially with free postage. I'm not complaining and I actually do like a paper ticket (a good way of remembering seats for performances without consulting your webpage), but if e-tickets become the default (and or paper tickets come with postage costs) then I do find it understandable. I only hope this means they will lower some ticket costs (wishful thinking!) or at least put the money into new productions/dancers' salaries etc rather than other ventures. 

 

I for one actually find the ROH in the minority nowadays in not charging a booking fee which I really respect and hope they stick with. However I have noticed that they do automatically put a donation of £3 in your basket which you have to actively remove which I find a bit annoying. Bur rather this than a booking fee I suppose, although I always wonder how many people actually donate through this method. I especially hate those booking fees which charge you more either per ticket or charge a higher booking fee if you've booked a more expensive ticket - so please never introduce these ROH!!! 

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