The "new" Royal Opera House, Covent Garden

[Lizbie1]

2 minutes ago, JennyTaylor said:

 

They were genuinely astonished - oh we thought you'd have no idea what we were talking about!  Well, I'd have to be pretty thick if that was the case. 

 

 

Wow - maybe they had made some rather silly assumptions about ballet-going women.

 

(I am amazed at some of the business conversations I overhear on the train: when you consider how certain industries cluster geographically, there can easily be a competitor listening in.)

[Ian Macmillan]

Many years ago I had to report indiscretions in an open rail carriage that indicated the speaker was working somewhere in No 10 Downing Street, close to the PM.  I understand that the person concerned was subsequently removed.  That old wartime poster about "Be like Dad - keep Mum" had much to commend it.

[capybara]

Once again, there were 5 seats empty in the front row of the Stalls yesterday afternoon. They were 'occupied' after the second interval by 'movers' but why, oh why, do their original owners not come - or not return tickets they can't use? There were people sitting elsewhere who would have given their eye teeth for those seats but were deprived of the opportunity to buy them.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2019 by capybara

[Dawnstar]

Something I found myself wondering while wandering around on the ROH's website this evening: why do they list the concert master as well as the conductor for all forthcoming ballet performances? For Romeo & Juliet, for instance, is would surely be far more useful to know who will be dancing Mercutio, Tybalt, etc. but that information isn't given. I find it hard to belive that anyone - apart perhaps from the leader's friends & relations, who could find out privately from them - ever books a ballet performance based on who will be leading the first violins! Also every time I read it it slightly irritates me that the ROH uses "concert master", which seems like an Americanism, rather than "leader".

[bridiem]

10 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

Something I found myself wondering while wandering around on the ROH's website this evening: why do they list the concert master as well as the conductor for all forthcoming ballet performances? For Romeo & Juliet, for instance, is would surely be far more useful to know who will be dancing Mercutio, Tybalt, etc. but that information isn't given. I find it hard to belive that anyone - apart perhaps from the leader's friends & relations, who could find out privately from them - ever books a ballet performance based on who will be leading the first violins! Also every time I read it it slightly irritates me that the ROH uses "concert master", which seems like an Americanism, rather than "leader".

 

Maybe it's a Musicians' Union thing? (If so, all the leading dancers should surely have the same right?).

[Dawnstar]

23 minutes ago, bridiem said:

Maybe it's a Musicians' Union thing? (If so, all the leading dancers should surely have the same right?).

 

That's got me checking the other major UK opera & ballet companies' websites but none of them have a concert master/leader listed, just the conductor. If it was a Union demand then I'm guessing it would apply to all the companies?

 

Maybe it's a hint that I should pay more attention to orchestras. I confess that quite frequently I find myself seeing the conductor entering the ROH pit & realise that, while I know exactly who is going to be singing that night, I have no idea who the conductor is!

[capybara]

40 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

Something I found myself wondering while wandering around on the ROH's website this evening: why do they list the concert master as well as the conductor for all forthcoming ballet performances? 

 

And list them sometimes before the dancers.......

[Lizbie1]

I suppose it's because the ROH orchestra (unusually) has more than one leader - and maybe that's why their title is concert master?

 

Still, though I can understand listing them when there are significant violin solos, such as with Swan Lake, I expect very few people book on the basis of who'll be playing them.

[bangorballetboy]

3 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

Also every time I read it it slightly irritates me that the ROH uses "concert master", which seems like an Americanism, rather than "leader".

 

European orchestras had a concert master before America even had an orchestra!

[SwissBalletFan]

17 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

European orchestras had a concert master before America even had an orchestra!

It seems the etymology is more usually from the German ‘Meister’ predating the UK or US terms.

 

the roles of this person can be found in the wiki page too.

 

From Wikipedia :https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concertmaster

 

The concertmaster (from the GermanKonzertmeister) in the U.S. and Canada is the leader of the first violin section in an orchestra (or clarinet in a concert band) and the instrument-playing leader of the orchestra. After the conductor, the concertmaster is the second-most significant leader in an orchestra, symphonic band or other musical ensemble. Another common term in the U.S. is "First Chair." In the U.K., Australia and elsewhere in the English-speaking world, the term commonly used is "leader."

[Sophoife]

In my experience, first chair or leader of a section is described as such, and the term "concert master" is applied to the individual leading the first violins at each performance. So you might have the concert master today being the first chair, but tomorrow he's playing a concerto with another orchestra so the other first desk player will be concert master.

[Sophoife]

🤯🤯🤯

Edited February 21, 2019 by Sophoife
Add screenshot

[Fonty]

Did anyone see The Real Marigold on Tour in Wednesday?  Wayne Sleep, with 3 others, went to Buenos Aires.  At one point he said that when he was with the Royal Ballet, they were scheduled to perform there, but they had to cancel because it was taken over by students in a protest.  So he paid a visit to the Opera House to see it for the first time.

 

It was magnificent, everything you would expect an Opera House to be.  And not a trace of anybody working on a lap top, or resting their feet after a hard day's shopping. 🙂 

[alison]

22 minutes ago, Fonty said:

It was magnificent, everything you would expect an Opera House to be. 

 

Ah, yes.  If you manage to look at one of those "opera houses of Europe/the world" books you'll soon realise that the Royal Opera House is actually very understated and lacking in magnificence   (Not that I mind in the slightest - I actually prefer not to be totally overwhelmed by gilt and glitter)

[Beryl H]

2 hours ago, alison said:

 

Ah, yes.  If you manage to look at one of those "opera houses of Europe/the world" books you'll soon realise that the Royal Opera House is actually very understated and lacking in magnificence   (Not that I mind in the slightest - I actually prefer not to be totally overwhelmed by gilt and glitter)

 

Rudolf Nureyev is supposed to have thought it looked like a café after the Mariinsky, and now it is , seriously though I also prefer the less glittery feel.

[Fonty]

I don't think the one in Argentina was actually that glittery.  It did have a lovely front entrance though.  And the boxes all had little curtains.  Presumably in the old days they were drawn discretely across if the show got a bit boring!

 

One of things I used to like in the old ROH was going in to the Crush Bar, having a drink, and admiring that magnificent chandelier.  I still have a quick peep now and then, but now I stand in the doorway gazing at all the people eating. 

 

[alison]

Walk through like the rest of us, Fonty!    After all, it is a vital thoroughfare from the right-hand side of the auditorium.

[Sim]

So disappointed that after two performances there was still nothing from the RB or ROH to inform the audience about Daniel Camargo in Don Q.  I have seen inserts in the past when someone has had to guest at short notice, so why nothing this time?  It's not as if there was only a day or two of notice.  I think this is incredibly disrespectful to him, to his home company and to his audience.  

 

The whole management of cast changes and information in general seems to have gone down the pan.  Why?  Don't they think anyone cares about who they are actually seeing?  I remember at Winter Dreams there was nothing about Gary Avis having replaced Bennet Garside, and as I reported at the time, I heard people leaving saying 'wow, what an emotional performance from that Bennet Gartside'  when it was actually Gary Avis.  Likewise, lots of cast members seem to get left off the cinema cast sheets altogether.  

 

What on earth is going on?  It would take so little to fix something so important (well, clearly they don't think it's important, but the audience does...and not just the regulars).

[bangorballetboy]

3 minutes ago, Sim said:

So disappointed that after two performances there was still nothing from the RB or ROH to inform the audience about Daniel Camargo in Don Q.  I have seen inserts in the past when someone has had to guest at short notice, so why nothing this time?  It's not as if there was only a day or two of notice.  I think this is incredibly disrespectful to him, to his home company and to his audience.  

 

His bio is in the programme.  I fail to see how this is disrespectful.

[Sim]

Because many people don't buy a programme at those prices.  In the past, bios for replacements have been inserted into the cast sheets.  As the RB doesn't have guest dancers much anymore, it would be very nice if they were to let people know about the few guests that step in without them having to buy an expensive programme.  

 

And when I talk about disrespectful, I am talking about more than Daniel Camargo.  I am talking about the whole approach to cast change information this season.  

[Josephine]

28 minutes ago, Sim said:

So disappointed that after two performances there was still nothing from the RB or ROH to inform the audience about Daniel Camargo in Don Q.  I have seen inserts in the past when someone has had to guest at short notice, so why nothing this time?  It's not as if there was only a day or two of notice.  I think this is incredibly disrespectful to him, to his home company and to his audience.  

 

The whole management of cast changes and information in general seems to have gone down the pan.  Why?  Don't they think anyone cares about who they are actually seeing?  I remember at Winter Dreams there was nothing about Gary Avis having replaced Bennet Garside, and as I reported at the time, I heard people leaving saying 'wow, what an emotional performance from that Bennet Gartside'  when it was actually Gary Avis.  Likewise, lots of cast members seem to get left off the cinema cast sheets altogether.  

 

What on earth is going on?  It would take so little to fix something so important (well, clearly they don't think it's important, but the audience does...and not just the regulars).

 

For the first performance of the mixed bill which included Winter Dreams the cast changes were displayed on a (small) notice at programme desks. Since then ROH has switched to displaying larger A4 size cast change notices, as far as I am aware. Besides notices and screen information onsite, I think it is respectful to both artists and audience for significant cast changes to be announced in the auditorium pre-performance. This has happened on a couple of occasions that I'm aware of recently, so I hope that ROH will continue to do this, even though the practice seemed to stop during the period before Christmas.

 

I did not see Daniel Camargo's performances, but presume that no cast change slip or auditorium announcement was needed because this was not deemed to be a last minute cast change. Perhaps it would be courteous for the cast sheet itself to state if a dancer is a guest artist and to give the name of his/her home company. As I was not there, I don't know what information (if any) the cast sheet gave for Daniel Camargo.

 

In the case of live screenings a full cast list usually appears online, e.g. Don Quixote on 19 February:
https://www.roh.org.uk/events/9cflh
Perhaps it would be helpful if the cast sheet document distributed to cinemas for live screenings could include the relevant webpage link for full cast information.

 

I wish the ROH website would give similarly expansive cast information for all RB performances!

 

[JohnS]

There have been real problems with casting information but at least Daniel Camargo was on the cast sheet and there’s a link to his biography on the website for the 23 matinee and 27 performances.  I don’t however see a News item about Daniel Carmargo dancing Basilio - was the change simply emailed to people who had booked?  If so that seems rather poor as News is often used for such changes.

[capybara]

13 minutes ago, JohnS said:

 If so that seems rather poor as News is often used for such changes.

 

The News section of the ROH website no longer carries anything about cast changes. Everything of significance is now put on social media. 

There is an interesting exchange about a related issue on the What did you think about Carlos Acosta’s DonQuixote? (Not the cinema thread - the other one.)

[Richard LH]

8 minutes ago, capybara said:

Everything of significance is now put on social media. 

 

...the background to which is explained in this response from the ROH:

 

Chris Shipman (Head of Brand Engagement and Social Media) responded on 28 February 2019 at 10:58am

Hi Elle,

We were thrilled that members of the company were nominated for, and won, National Dance Awards

We celebrated these wins on social media:

https://twitter.com/TheRoyalBallet/status/1097553415239069697
https://www.facebook.com/royaloperahouse/videos/2064020953712765/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BuB8wndhGHf/

Moving such announcements to our social media platforms - a decision based on user behaviour - allows us to spread the news far more widely.
The best place therefore to receive information about breaking announcements is social media, and in particular our Twitter profile.

Best wishes,

Chris

 

[JohnS]

But ROH’s News still carries some important bulletins and includes ‘what did you think of ...’

Recent bulletins include Cesar Corrales injury and details of replacements and Alex Beard used News to respond quickly to the Forza ticket Viagogo problems (but regrettably there is still no response to the legitimate questions asked by a number of people). 

[alison]

If the ROH seriously believes that the vast majority of its patrons (and possibly in particular the older ones) are busy checking the ROH's Twitter/Facebook/Instagram feeds, I suspect they are sorely mistaken.

[bridiem]

24 minutes ago, alison said:

If the ROH seriously believes that the vast majority of its patrons (and possibly in particular the older ones) are busy checking the ROH's Twitter/Facebook/Instagram feeds, I suspect they are sorely mistaken.

 

And in any case, why not use social media IN ADDITION TO the News section of their website, rather than INSTEAD OF?? Is it really so onerous to put this comparatively small number of news items on the website too?? (Though anything about the website seems unduly onerous for the ROH at the moment.)

[Fonty]

12 minutes ago, alison said:

If the ROH seriously believes that the vast majority of its patrons (and possibly in particular the older ones) are busy checking the ROH's Twitter/Facebook/Instagram feeds, I suspect they are sorely mistaken.

 

Well, I use Facebook a lot, but I would never think of checking there for anything.  I hate official Facebook pages for any organisation, because usually they don't contain very much information at all, beyond short phrases along the lines of "great photo of So and So" or "What do you think of Such and Such" followed by masses of comments going "Great" "Awesome" "My mum really enjoyed it".  The one for the ROH contains some quite nice short snippets of video, which they also put on the main website.  Yasmine Naghdi is doing some lovely fouettes, for example.  However, the description says "Yasmine Naghdi and Marcelino Sambé rehearse Don Quixote before The Royal Ballet's live cinema relay on 19 February www.roh.org.uk/cinemas".....  Hmm, doesn't that give the impression that they were the cast for the cinema relay?

 

If I want proper information about anything, be it the Royal Opera House or a kitchen manufacturer, then I go to the website.  Where I expect to see details properly laid out, up to date, and relevant.  

 

Talking of which, I had to laugh.  When I went on the ROH facebook page, which I very rarely do, I clicked on events, and it said, "Royal Opera House does not have any upcoming events."  

[penelopesimpson]

1 hour ago, Richard LH said:

 

...the background to which is explained in this response from the ROH:

 

Chris Shipman (Head of Brand Engagement and Social Media) responded on 28 February 2019 at 10:58am

Hi Elle,

We were thrilled that members of the company were nominated for, and won, National Dance Awards

We celebrated these wins on social media:

https://twitter.com/TheRoyalBallet/status/1097553415239069697
https://www.facebook.com/royaloperahouse/videos/2064020953712765/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BuB8wndhGHf/

Moving such announcements to our social media platforms - a decision based on user behaviour - allows us to spread the news far more widely.
The best place therefore to receive information about breaking announcements is social media, and in particular our Twitter profile.

Best wishes,

Chris

 

Does Mr. Shipman SERIOUSLY believe that the majority of ROH patrons, many of whom are in upper age brackets, spend their time on Twitter and Facebook?  Does a senior guy responsible for marketing at an International Opera House have absolutely no knowlege of its customer base?  I am totally flabbergasted.

Can it be that the Marketing Department is entirely staffed by people whose only knowlege of their trade is post social media?

Edited February 28, 2019 by penelopesimpson

[capybara]

1 hour ago, Richard LH said:

 

...the background to which is explained in this response from the ROH:

 

Chris Shipman (Head of Brand Engagement and Social Media) responded on 28 February 2019 at 10:58am

Hi Elle,

We were thrilled that members of the company were nominated for, and won, National Dance Awards

We celebrated these wins on social media:

https://twitter.com/TheRoyalBallet/status/1097553415239069697
https://www.facebook.com/royaloperahouse/videos/2064020953712765/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BuB8wndhGHf/

Moving such announcements to our social media platforms - a decision based on user behaviour - allows us to spread the news far more widely.
The best place therefore to receive information about breaking announcements is social media, and in particular our Twitter profile.

Best wishes,

Chris

 

 

Well, I'm amazed at the claim that it "allows (them) to spread the news more widely". Is the whole world except me checking ROH's social media feeds all day every day? I am on social media but, when I go to the ROH news page on its own website, I expect to see key items of news - and they are letting me and others down badly now. But, er, I forgot, the 'regulars' who take a keen interest in the Royal Ballet and its dancers, are no longer of any consequence to the ROH. Sooooooooo sad.

Incidentally, the Facebook link they provide in that answer links to some film clips, not, as far as I can discern, to the news of the top  National Dance Awards for Nunez and Muntagirov.

 

By the way, Alex Beard is the guest of The Ballet Association next Wednesday, 6th March: 7.30 - please see this thread for entry fees, venue and travel details: http://www.balletcoforum.com/topic/261-ballet-association-news-of-upcoming-talks-and-events/?tab=comments#comment-2677

 

 

 

 

 

[penelopesimpson]

I see Mr. Beard feels he can only answer questions which have been submitted in advance so he will pick and choose and say precisely nothing as he usually does  - well, on the few occasions he's not moaning about his 'elite' customer base.

[Sim]

28 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

I see Mr. Beard feels he can only answer questions which have been submitted in advance so he will pick and choose and say precisely nothing as he usually does  - well, on the few occasions he's not moaning about his 'elite' customer base.

Before I say “the coward’s way out” I will wait to see which questions he answers, and whether he leaves time for questions at the end. 

[zxDaveM]

54 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

Does Mr. Shipman SERIOUSLY believe that the majority of ROH patrons, many of whom are in upper age brackets, spend their time on Twitter and Facebook?  Does a senior guy responsible for marketing at an International Opera House have absolutely no knowlege of its customer base?  I am totally flabbergasted.

Can it be that the Marketing Department is entirely staffed by people whose only knowlege of their trade is post social media?

 

Well, I'm no spring chick, and use Facebook a lot - but the announcement on Facebook about their winners (no mention of their other nominees) came and went without me seeing it. Doesn't make you feel they were particularly enthused about it... (perhaps because they didn't win best company?)