The "new" Royal Opera House, Covent Garden

[bridiem]

2 minutes ago, RuthE said:

 

It is the case at, for example, Sadler's Wells for the current Matthew Bourne Swan Lake.

 

It hasn't been the case for anything I've seen at SW, and I do think it looks extremely amateur. OK for a mini production in a pub theatre; not OK for a big production in a mainstream theatre.

[LinMM]

Actually I'm having hysterics here now ....I cannot get the image out of my head of lots of people pushing and shoving each other trying to take a picture on their phones of the cast changes!! 

 

 

[Josephine]

15 minutes ago, bridiem said:

2. As far as I can remember, I haven't been to such a theatre, and would think it a very amateur arrangement.

 

If the ROH wishes to do away with cast change slips, it has to a) make suitable alternative arrangements (e.g. large signs in sufficient locations), and b) TELL PEOPLE. We are finding out these (unsatisfactory and inconsistent) new arrangements by chance and rumour, and it's frankly ridiculous.

 

 

Displaying the cast for a performance on a notice board in the foyer has happened sometimes at Sadler's Wells in the past. I have not been there very recently.

 

I agree that ROH should have been more proactive in informing the audience, e.g. by email, of the new arrangements for obtaining cast change information. If such an email has been sent I have not spotted it.

[capybara]

 

Actually, the doors into the auditorium didn't open until after 7.10pm last night and it was a struggle to move in the foyer, let alone see the cast changes.

 

Please don't let's carp at one another over this..................

[bridiem]

6 minutes ago, LinMM said:

 By the very nature of ballet there are bound to be some very last minute changes on some days

 

I think this is the nub of the problem. The ROH is minimising the significance of any cast changes because they don't fit in with the propaganda-ish ethos that the ROH and so many other organisations have now adopted. Everything is good and as planned and under control. Whereas in fact they are dealing with human beings in an unpredictable art form. It's a complete conceptual mis-match.

[LinMM]

I'm not sure bridiem because I suppose I'm a bit of a trusting soul on the whole I assume ALL the people who work for the ROH are somehow opera and ballet lovers ....even if in the office so to speak! 

So I sort of think they must know that keen ballet goers are interested in the casts and would want to know who exactly is dancing (within reason) 

So then I find it difficult to believe they are really working against everybody who attends regularly....but maybe I'm being naive about this I don't know. I've always found the staff to be extremely helpful where they can.

[Sim]

1 minute ago, LinMM said:

I'm not sure bridiem because I suppose I'm a bit of a trusting soul on the whole I assume ALL the people who work for the ROH are somehow opera and ballet lovers ....even if in the office so to speak! 

So I sort of think they must know that keen ballet goers are interested in the casts and would want to know who exactly is dancing (within reason) 

So then I find it difficult to believe they are really working against everybody who attends regularly....but maybe I'm being naive about this I don't know. I've always found the staff to be extremely helpful where they can.

Maybe this is all part of the grand master plan to ease out the regulars.... 

 

[bridiem]

3 minutes ago, LinMM said:

I'm not sure bridiem because I suppose I'm a bit of a trusting soul on the whole I assume ALL the people who work for the ROH are somehow opera and ballet lovers ....even if in the office so to speak! 

So I sort of think they must know that keen ballet goers are interested in the casts and would want to know who exactly is dancing (within reason) 

So then I find it difficult to believe they are really working against everybody who attends regularly....but maybe I'm being naive about this I don't know. I've always found the staff to be extremely helpful where they can.

 

I'm not referring to the front of house staff, LinMM - I agree that 'where they can' they are very helpful (whether or not they are opera/ballet lovers, which I'm sure isn't a requirement of the job). I think they are being undermined by the higher echelons.

[LinMM]

I suppose I'm referring to anybody who would want to work at or for the ROH!! Whatever level they are on. I just assume they are opera or ballet lovers. I have nt really understood this supposed drive since the "open up" to hate the regulars!! 

Im not saying this isn't happening but I'm not a Friend anymore so probably haven't noticed changes in attitude as much as others may have detected. I know the website has been a mess but hoping this will eventually be put right and isn't there to show how much "they" hate us!! 

Rises in ticket prices are always going to happen I suppose.....certainly nothing ever gets cheaper! And this does restrict eventually how often you can go .....But is this really part of some directed hate campaign? In the end they would just be cutting of their noses to spite their faces....not a good outcome at all...for them! 

I suspect the open up has cost a lot of money and this is why seat prices have gone up not because they don't really want ballet lovers to attend but of course higher seat prices do favour the more well off. I'm still not sure that's lots of these well off people will go that much more to the Opera House if they actually dislike ballet or opera though.

[RuthE]

6 minutes ago, LinMM said:

I suspect the open up has cost a lot of money and this is why seat prices have gone up

 

I doubt this very much.  A capital investment project would typically have been achieved by funds raised for the purpose.  Rises in seat prices would be more likely to be covering increases in ongoing operating costs.

 

(Edited to add: however if Open Up has *resulted* in an increase in operating costs, this may be contributing.  Though it would be a pretty foolish business plan.)

Edited January 3, 2019 by RuthE

[Lizbie1]

I’ve found the front of house staff uniformly friendly and helpful but a several conversations with some have made it clear that they weren’t opera or ballet goers (let alone fans), or at least not at that point! I’m sure that the place works its magic and converts many of them though

[LinMM]

Yes I'm sure that's true as well RuthE .....I'm saying this in the context that some people seem to believe that the ROH is deliberately trying to freeze out more regular attenders ....and higher seat prices could be one way of doing this.

Im not a great believer in conspiracy theories though.

[Lizbie1]

3 minutes ago, RuthE said:

 

I doubt this very much.  A capital investment project would typically have been achieved by funds raised for the purpose.  Rises in seat prices would be more likely to be covering increases in ongoing operating costs.

 

I agree, though I do wonder whether - perhaps subconsciously- it was felt that the new look justified price increases.

 

I just wonder whether it was wise to increase prices pretty much across the board at the same time as the big opening: people were bound to link the two.

[bangorballetboy]

1 hour ago, bridiem said:

 

1. Yes, most people (but not all) would have a pen; but is it really feasible for lots of people to be standing in front of the few notices or screens in already crowded areas, writing down the changes?

 

In my experience (i.e. from what I've seen on visits to ROH), the number of people actually interested in cast changes is relatively small.  I really don't think this should be a problem (but I have said on twitter that I think the signs should be bigger, there should be more of them and they should be more prominent).

 

1 hour ago, bridiem said:

 

2. As far as I can remember, I haven't been to such a theatre, and would think it a very amateur arrangement.

 

 

It's what's done at every single West End theatre.  I noted that in the Geilgud Theatre this morning there were two A4 pieces of paper blu-tacked to the box office confirming a cast change for tonight.

[bangorballetboy]

1 hour ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

...and I wish they’d stop having paper tickets as the default. It’s all too easy when in a hurry not to remember to take the extra step necessary to receive an e-ticket instead.

 

 I guess that this might be in the works for the new website, though.

 

Agreed!

[LinMM]

I would just like to say that I have very little idea of how businesses are run and the current issues with the ROH seem to be on that level I think....how it is run as a business. 

I suppose these days it is true that often people brought in to run big concerns ( eg like the NHS) are mainly profit motivated and do not necessarily have a more personal connection to the organisation they are running and do not always reflect the needs of the people using the service .....perhaps this is what people are concerned about at the ROH? 

[bridiem]

28 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

In my experience (i.e. from what I've seen on visits to ROH), the number of people actually interested in cast changes is relatively small.  I really don't think this should be a problem (but I have said on twitter that I think the signs should be bigger, there should be more of them and they should be more prominent).

 

 

It's what's done at every single West End theatre.  I noted that in the Geilgud Theatre this morning there were two A4 pieces of paper blu-tacked to the box office confirming a cast change for tonight.

 

No, it shouldn't be a problem; it's only turned into one because of the way it's been done. (And I don't think it actually matters how many people are seriously interested in who is performing; it should be recorded properly as a matter of principle.)

 

I think it's OK to do this for a cast change, not for a cast list (which is what your original post mentioned). (And I suspect there are fewer unplanned cast changes in theatre than in ballet, for obvious reasons.)

[LinMM]

When you see just how many people involved with running just the business side of the ROH it's mind boggling though!! 

 

 

[Mary]

I do agree that alternatives to printed cast lists could work, -and I would accept it - reluctantly I must say but I would-  but the change has not been well handled. It is annoying to ask at the desk if there are any changes, be told 'No' then find from the forum that in fact there were. This  has happened more than once.

It is also inadequate not to have clear signs at each major entrance point.

It would have been so much better if ROH had told us about the change and explained the reasons, then asked for suggestions to make it work, put clearer and more frequent signs up, and then asked us 'how is it going'? And- updated the website each time- which does not waste any paper.

 

Just going ahead, and teling staff to deny point-blank there are cast changes when there are, is poor.

 

[bangorballetboy]

Just now, bridiem said:

 

I think it's OK to do this for a cast change, not for a cast list (which is what your original post mentioned). (And I suspect there are fewer unplanned cast changes in theatre than in ballet, for obvious reasons.)

 

You misunderstand.  In every single West End theatre, there is a cast board (sometimes a screen, sometimes an actual board with names on it) listing the cast for the current performance.  Sometimes (but not always) they will put up an announcement for a cast change (e.g. the Gielgud Theatre today) but this is not always the case.  During 42nd Street at Drury Lane, the only cast change that is specifically announced had been for Dorothy Brock (and when LuLu was doing it, that was a a sign for many people to rush for tickets!); all other cast changes are simply shown on the cast board.

[Jan McNulty]

2 hours ago, Minniethemoocher said:

It shouldn’t be assumed that  everyone has a mobile phone to take a photo of cast changes !

 

Hello Minniethemoocher and welcome out of the lurking shadows!

 

You've taken the words right out of my mouth.

[alison]

5 hours ago, JohnS said:

I’d be interested to know what the cast list contained by way of synopsis last time Winter Dreams was performed

 

I'm pretty sure the answer was "absolutely nothing".

 

2 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

What do you do when you go to a theatre where the only cast list is a board listing the cast and not specifically identifying any changes/understudies/swings?

 

1 hour ago, RuthE said:

 

It is the case at, for example, Sadler's Wells for the current Matthew Bourne Swan Lake.

 

That's a very different scenario, though: if you go to a play, you'd more or less expect the same cast every time, and almost certainly wouldn't be terribly bothered if someone different was playing the second centurion (although even then I think I've probably always seen even such minor cast changes credited - I'd have thought Equity would demand it).  (And as for the Bourne Swan Lake scenario, I only usually bother looking for the 5 main characters.  Despite seeing the production over a score of times, I've still not even worked out which is the Monegasque princess, or whatever, anyway.)  This - in particular Nutcracker - is a completely different kettle of fish, with a cast sheet showing large numbers of named dancers in clearly specified roles, who deserve to be credited correctly.

 

1 hour ago, ninamargaret said:

Last night it was impossible to get a clear view of the screen because of the people queuing at the cafe bar.

 

Which is another thing: the on-screen cast changes would be easier to read if they were scrolling at the top of the screen rather than the bottom, where they are often blocked by the bodies of the staff.  Presumably they can be made "see-through" so that the video content can still be seen.

 

1 hour ago, bridiem said:

but is it really feasible for lots of people to be standing in front of the few notices or screens in already crowded areas, writing down the changes?

 

No.  And as mentioned elsewhere, names are much easier to read when they are in title case, not in all capitals.

 

1 hour ago, bridiem said:

The other aspect that is really disturbing is that the staff do seem to have been asked to lie about this. They constantly say 'oh the changes are only minor' even when that's clearly not true, so it's obviously the 'script' they have been given. Why??

 

I don't think they've been "asked to lie" about it, just given information which isn't correct.  Or conceivably a few of them may not be bothered that much: I mean, Clara's only a young girl, so who cares, right?  

 

 

47 minutes ago, LinMM said:

I suspect the open up has cost a lot of money and this is why seat prices have gone up

 

But as has been stated several times here, and many more elsewhere, Open Up was completely funded by private donations.

 

42 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

I’ve found the front of house staff uniformly friendly and helpful but a several conversations with some have made it clear that they weren’t opera or ballet goers (let alone fans), or at least not at that point! I’m sure that the place works its magic and converts many of them though

 

Oh, it does  

 

40 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Yes I'm sure that's true as well RuthE .....I'm saying this in the context that some people seem to believe that the ROH is deliberately trying to freeze out more regular attenders ....and higher seat prices could be one way of doing this.

Im not a great believer in conspiracy theories though.

 

Did you not read the thread we have on this, Lin?  The one quoting someone in power who effectively admitted that they were trying to discourage the regulars from attending so much so it would free up seats?

[Jan McNulty]

I think as a general rule most of the back office workers are not interested in ballet or opera.  I have met back office workers in various companies who have never seen a performance!  That does not mean that, at some stage, they may not develop an interest in the art forms.  The administrative hierarchies seem more interested in "money men" no matter what their background is.

[bridiem]

55 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

You misunderstand.  In every single West End theatre, there is a cast board (sometimes a screen, sometimes an actual board with names on it) listing the cast for the current performance.  Sometimes (but not always) they will put up an announcement for a cast change (e.g. the Gielgud Theatre today) but this is not always the case.  During 42nd Street at Drury Lane, the only cast change that is specifically announced had been for Dorothy Brock (and when LuLu was doing it, that was a a sign for many people to rush for tickets!); all other cast changes are simply shown on the cast board.

 

Sorry, I did misunderstand. But I still think that cast lists should be available; I don't think the performers are of ephemeral interest and I think it's very wrong to treat them as such. And I imagine that apart from some big musicals most people don't go to a West End play more than once, so they're more likely in any case to buy a programme (which presumably does list the cast). I hardly ever go to West End theatres nowadays (clearly!) because they're too expensive even for straight plays. (I have to prioritise strictly, and theatre is vastly more expensive now than it used to be.)

[Douglas Allen]

I think that with the discussion about practices in west end theatres we are getting slightly away from the situation at the ROH. 

The board listing the cast for the current performance at a theatre is the result of an agreement, some years ago, between the Society of West End Theatre (SWET) and Equity whereby the theatre agreed to display in the foyer or by the box office, a board listing the cast performing that day. It is not a change of cast notification, but an attempt to ensure that (particularly in the case of the prevalence of swings, double castings and understudies in musicals and larger-scale productions) all performers are publically acknowledged. Cast changes are separately announced for major roles (usually those featured in the advertising of the show).

[Anna C]

Last time I was at the ROH, the programme desk inside the Bow St entrance did not have a cast change notice on display.  There are no TV screens in that foyer so I have taken to asking the programme sellers if there are any cast changes.  The staff member I spoke to did say “yes” and brought out an A4 sized notice for us to look at.  When we had read it, it was whipped away under the desk and the information was not volunteered to the people behind me.  

 

To me it doesn’t matter if you are a regular, a fan of particular dancers or a newbie - it’s basic respect for the dancers for the entire audience to be told who is performing.  I don’t particularly care how the information is given as long as it is clearly visible or audible, and freely volunteered.  At the moment it is none of these and that is unacceptable.  

[RuthE]

20 minutes ago, Anna C said:

To me it doesn’t matter if you are a regular, a fan of particular dancers or a newbie - it’s basic respect for the dancers for the entire audience to be told who is performing.

 

I would add that it's also basic respect for the audience for a company not to assume that, as a default position, they don't have a clue what or whom they're watching.

Edited January 3, 2019 by RuthE

[mimi'smom]

I have just received an email notifying me that, for tomorrow night's triple bill, due to illness, Sarah Lamb will be dancing the role of Masha, replacing Marianela Nunez. So the message is getting through perhaps to the powers that be? 

[capybara]

8 minutes ago, mimi'smom said:

I have just received an email notifying me that, for tomorrow night's triple bill, due to illness, Sarah Lamb will be dancing the role of Masha, replacing Marianela Nunez. So the message is getting through perhaps to the powers that be? 

 

This e-mail system has been in place for some time now. However, I have had one today for the first time ever whereas others on here have a number of such notifications.

It does, however, apply to Principals only.

[alison]

I would hope it would apply to principal *roles*, otherwise if you get a First Soloist dancing the lead you won't be notified?

[Anna C]

IMHO it shouldn’t matter whether the dancer is a Principal, Principal Character Artist, Soloist or whatever - if a role is important enough to be listed, the audience should be told about substitutions.  

[LinMM]

I did read that thread Alison but didn't really get it at the time. It just didn't make sense to me ....if someone is sitting in any particular seat then they've paid for it ....so why would they want to "free it up" What difference would it make whether a "regular" or "newbie" was sitting in it as long as somebody is!! Unless the idea is to raise the prices of seats to levels that the "regulars" will not be able to afford! 

But then if the newbies didn't start to be the new "wealthier" regulars there would be lots of empty seats!! I couldn't make sense of all this but then I'm not much of a business person!  There are an awful lot of staff employed on the business side ....enough for checks and balances to be there it would seem .....am still finding it difficult to believe such an outrageous policy would be generally approved. 

Anyway if this has all been done to death on the other thread no need to continue on etc

 

Maybe the price hikes are only just starting to affect some people but personally speaking the generally higher prices of the last four years or so in particular have kept me away already!! I haven't been going as often as would like in recent years and can only usually sit in Amphi but I am very grateful to this Forum for the odd standing ticket return which does allow for more visits than would otherwise be possible. 

[Dawnstar]

2 hours ago, alison said:

I would hope it would apply to principal *roles*, otherwise if you get a First Soloist dancing the lead you won't be notified?

 

I'm booked for Nutcracker on 9th and got an email for Bonelli being replaced by Bracewell but not Hay being replaced by Sambe so it does indeed seem to be only for principal dancers rather than for principal roles. This seems pretty peculiar to me, especially for this particular one considering that Hans-Peter gets a heck of a lot more stage time than the Prince! (I have my fingers firmly crossed that Avis doesn't get ill/injured in the next week given he's the last man still listed of the originally-announced cast!)

 

Edit: I can't work out how to quote more than 1 post but bridiem said " And I imagine that apart from some big musicals most people don't go to a West End play more than once". Um, is this the moment to mention that I've seen current West End play The Comedy About A Bank Robbery 61 times...

Edited January 3, 2019 by Dawnstar