Lizbie1 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, Richard LH said: What exactly do you think they would "disagree vehemently with", Lizbie? That TV dramas and films "don't bear continual repetition". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard LH Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said: That TV dramas and films "don't bear continual repetition". Well in the main surely that is true... you would not expect the BBC to continually keep repeating, say, The Bodyguard every other year, nor a film company to continually keep screening something like The Godfather every other year, in the same way that ballets are brought back time after time. Of course there may be some exceptions (Dads Army springs to mind) but those will tend to be cases (as with ballets, as I see it) where viewers are not then concerned about a plot surprise having being spoiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Richard LH said: Of course there may be some exceptions (Dads Army springs to mind) but those will tend to be cases (as with ballets, as I see it) where viewers are not then concerned about a plot surprise having being spoiled. Sure, but my original point was more that no-one expects prior study to be a pre-requisite for enjoyment and understanding, though it can enhance them. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 10 hours ago, Sunrise said: I think some of the difficulty of the similarity of the costumes and wigs - even if you do your research or have a good synopsis, it's really hard to separate all women in Rudolf's life until you get to Mary Vetsera. It doesn't help that on screen the Empress looked about the same age as Rudolf. Yes, I think the similarity of the costumes are part of the problem; but I was also thinking the other day that I would nevertheless not want them to be changed, because the whole palette of the ballet is so consistent and part of what gives it its flavour and power. The rich, deep, stifling, all-encompassing environment against which Rudolf reacted is reflected beautifully in the costumes. But perhaps slightly more differentiation in the wigs might help? And I agree that an older-looking Empress works much better. (Regular ballet-goers understand about suspending disbelief about such things, given that ballet is such a physical art and most dancers are young; but newcomers are likely just to see a young woman and a young man! And I don't think the Empress's choreography really requires a younger dancer.) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogoat Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 10 hours ago, Sunrise said: I thought Darcey and Ore made a decent stab at explaining some of the plot. I think some of the difficulty of the similarity of the costumes and wigs - even if you do your research or have a good synopsis, it's really hard to separate all women in Rudolf's life until you get to Mary Vetsera. It doesn't help that on screen the Empress looked about the same age as Rudolf. When I saw Mayerling for the first time I was completely flummoxed by one 'new' character who appeared towards the end, in the scene with Rudolf seated in the chair. "Who was the irate woman with the really long hair who slapped Larisch?", I asked afterwards. (I probably flatter myself, as it was more likely "Who was that woman hitting that other woman, was that his old nanny?") "That was his mother!", I was told. In the intervening years, I've got to know the characters in more and more detail, to the extent they are almost 'friends'; like friends, I mostly delight in their behaviour, though I'm occasionally disappointed by it. Tonight, I will be looking closely at my 'friend' Sarah Lamb's Larisch, in particular her interaction with the audience through the 'fourth-wall'. Will she stare at us on her entrance? Will she play out the start of the card scene to us rather than to Mary and her mother? (In her last outing, she stood facing us when 'asking' the mother for the cards by holding her hand out, and once she put the switch card in her dress - something everyone does facing us - she threw hers arms up to us, not to them, like a magician starting an elaborate trick; but in this case the trick is not an illusion, but deadly real). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard LH Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Lizbie1 said: Sure, but my original point was more that no-one expects prior study to be a pre-requisite for enjoyment and understanding, though it can enhance them. Sorry if I misunderstood, I thought your original suggestion was rather different, that people today would tend not to want to know the story of a narrative ballet like Mayerling in advance as it would spoil the surprise, as with a TV drama or film. Edited October 19, 2018 by Richard LH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 9 hours ago, Nogoat said: When I saw Mayerling for the first time I was completely flummoxed by one 'new' character who appeared towards the end, in the scene with Rudolf seated in the chair. "Who was the irate woman with the really long hair who slapped Larisch?", I asked afterwards. To judge by the audience response tonight, I suspect that some of them were wondering the same. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shya100 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) I, at times, struggled to know which girl was which. The wife and Mary yes but many of the others just melded into one. Don't really know of I liked it yet? I didn't feel that interested in the main character. As a show case to show off some male dance technique it was great. There where some empty seats near me. Which I have never seen before. Maybe it's been revived a bit too much recently. Edited October 19, 2018 by Shya100 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanartus Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Wonderful performances tonight. Hirano completely surprised me. Far better than I could have ever expected after the lacklustre reviews. I thought his solos were frightening and tormented- the panic attack of the second act so convincing. Images of suffocation started in act one and continued throughout. For me the theme of addiction and destruction ran throughout and not just in the character of the Crown Prince. Of course Rudolf is addicted to drugs and to an unattainable image of himself as a progressive royal rebel. But Mary is equally addicted to a morbid fantasy of death, power and love. Marie Larisch is obsessed with the past and lost love, and all other characters are trapped in the past, failed relationships or delusions of grandeur. When Mary takes possession of Rudolf at the end of act two it is a act of monstrous emotion. Their final pas de deux of act three is not one of true love, but rather, when danced tonight by Hirano and Osipova, ugly, cruel, despairing, and an act of ultimate self harm. There is no redemption just desperation. I was stunned by the brutal physicality of the dancing - as I was in the pdd with Hayward too. It was an evening of extremes, unsettling but I was glad to have seen it. 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 From tonight 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 And another 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) A few random thoughts which have passed through my mind during the current run: - I don't remember it ever snowing at the cemetery before this run. However, it is January, so there's no reason why it shouldn't. - I don't remember seeing the RB men quite so energised during the tavern scene before - Mary's "excessively enthusiastic" solo at the Vetsera residence has suddenly struck me as sounding almost as though it might have escaped from La Fille Mal Gardée. I assume that's something to do with the Lanchbery effect. - (Early in Act III, and elsewhere:) it's quite incredible how something as simple(?) as bourrées can speak volumes - and in various accents. The confrontation between Elisabeth and Larisch is a case in point. - Mary's underwear is surely a lot more noticeable - colour-wise and seam/hem-wise - than it used to be? Or is her negligee sheerer? Edited October 20, 2018 by alison Forgot the last one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard LH Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) Does anyone have other news of how yesterday's Schools Matinee went, with Takada as Mary, apart from a nice Bravo from McRae on Instagram? Edited October 20, 2018 by Richard LH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 8 hours ago, Vanartus said: Wonderful performances tonight. I love your evocative post Vanartus. Thank you! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 9 hours ago, alison said: - I don't remember seeing the RB men quite so energised during the tavern scene before Well, that's only to be expected when, at some performances, Cesar Corrales is leading the Hungarian Officers. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, capybara said: Well, that's only to be expected when, at some performances, Cesar Corrales is leading the Hungarian Officers. Yes he was fantastic last night, his quality really stood out 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Thanks RobS for your great photos - did you get one of Hirano? vanartus I agree with all that you have said. After reading the reviews I contemplated not going last night. So glad I did now. I was v close to the stage and it made such a difference to see close up the expressions of the dancers. Plus as my expectations were not so high as they might have been if Watson had been dancing they were in fact exceeded. Terrific performances from all and full of energy. Osipova could have been Salome in the pdd at the end of Act 2. Rudolf never stood a chance! I agree this ballet is tragic with no redemption or hope and that makes it difficult to watch at times and for me uncomfortable, especially the pdd with Stephanie. by the way I can confirm that the stalls circle seats were removed yesterday, I assume to allow the sound to travel up. Thanks to to all posters for their knowledgable and insightful posts, as ever. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 I am not surprised, but very pleased to hear Hirano's performance was much more energised last night. Ithink that first night was a very tense occasion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 25 minutes ago, Shade said: Thanks RobS for your great photos - did you get one of Hirano? by the way I can confirm that the stalls circle seats were removed yesterday, I assume to allow the sound to travel up. Not super quality as the ISO had to go up to make up for trying to hold a very small compact with a long lens but here's the man. When I got home from last night I decided to book another chance to see Princess Yuhui on Monday night and managed to get a Stalls Circle seat near the stage, in the online description it states the aisle is NOT always available so I guess I'm not going to be in my preferred aisle seat 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tebasile Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 11 hours ago, Vanartus said: There is no redemption just desperation. I was stunned by the brutal physicality of the dancing - as I was in the pdd with Hayward too. It was an evening of extremes, unsettling but I was glad to have seen it. I agree completely. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillykins Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Was a last minute decision to go as this course of chemo is tough. I am so glad I tried out my new wheelchair and used the lovely Stalls circle place provided for wheelchairs. I had booked for Watson and didn’t feel like making the effort! I was amazed by Hiranos performance, he built up the character so convincingly and broke my heart at the end. During the song at the party he was in the gloom and I couldn’t take my eyes off him. He was so still and so tortured. Such pain. The final pas de deux was heartbreaking. By the way surely the lady with long hair is Elizabeth? I agree that the Hungarian officers gave a great performance but I do want to giggle sometimes when they keep popping out of the curtains. There is a lot of front of tabs in this ballet in order to keep the story moving! In a recent visit to Vienna we learnt some of the history of the family relationships and I do find the pas de deux between Rudolph and his mother a bit incestuous. Maybe that is just me. However many congratulations to Hirano, it is a disadvantage knowing people booked for Watson, he gave a fine performance. So glad I went! 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanartus Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 ...I’m glad you went too - and all the best with chemo, you’ve got guts! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jillykins said: I agree that the Hungarian officers gave a great performance but I do want to giggle sometimes when they keep popping out of the curtains. Doing it once is fine but surely something else could have been thought of instead of repeating it.....and then having an old bloke walking along looking round. I propose whores being chased by the police accompanied by the the closest thing Liszt did to the Benny Hill theme 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Yes- the Keystone Cops moment is my suggestion for cutting- because people always laugh- breaking the mood. Maybe they could really try to make the policemen less comic? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 11 hours ago, alison said: I don't remember it ever snowing at the cemetery before this run. However, it is January, so there's no reason why it shouldn't. It has always "snowed" in these scenes. Perhaps the balance between the projection and the rest of the lighting is set by hand, which might explain variations over the years. Where one sits certainly makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 I've always thought it was finer than that, so rain rather than snow (not to mention the "wet-look" costumes). But the last few performances I've seen, it's definitely seemed much thicker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmeralda Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 When I first learned that Watson couldn´t dance I thought I would cancel my bookings for the performance and hotel etc. But a friend of mine, who wanted to go with me, never saw Mayerling live and insisted anyway. And I am so glad she did! I was so worried after the underwhelming reviews here but maybe sometimes it is better, if you don´t expect too much. Hirano was a fantastic Rudolph, not only in his various pdds with the women but also in his interpretation of this role. How he unfolded his different emotions throughout the performance and how he deeloped the character was very fascinating to watc. Also his dance technique was really great, so so assured and confident. Still sad I didn´t see Watson but Hirano was more than a fantastic replacement. Big applause also to the fantastic women in this cast no matter if it was Osipova, Hayward or Lamb and to Campbell for his interpretation of Bratfisch. It was such a great cast and the whole dynamic was so enjoyable. Now waiting for Ball in the evening. I expect a lot after the reviews here and after the performance from yesterday. Never had 2 Mayerlings in 24 hours so we will see how this will go... 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 36 minutes ago, alison said: I've always thought it was finer than that, so rain rather than snow (not to mention the "wet-look" costumes). But the last few performances I've seen, it's definitely seemed much thicker. I agree; even in the last run I thought of it as raining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard LH Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 41 minutes ago, alison said: I've always thought it was finer than that, so rain rather than snow (not to mention the "wet-look" costumes). But the last few performances I've seen, it's definitely seemed much thicker. That's climate change for you... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mummykool Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 The Hirano we saw last night was nothing like the Hirano we saw in opening night and who garnered such tepid reviews. It has been interesting to watch how his characterisation has grown and how the whole cast seem to have gelled together. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Anna C said: I agree; even in the last run I thought of it as raining. I've always thought of it as rain; hence the umbrellas. Sometimes it's hardly visible though, so I thought they were just making sure it was visible (rather than it being snow). I hope it is rain (if you see what I mean!) since rain and snow have different emotional connotations. Of course snow could be just as appropriate; but is different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmeralda Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 24 minutes ago, Richard LH said: That's climate change for you... But shouldn´t it be the other way then...?🤔 By the way, does anyone know who will dance the 4 Hungarian Officers in the Ball cast? Some others than yesterday? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saodan Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 23 minutes ago, Esmeralda said: By the way, does anyone know who will dance the 4 Hungarian Officers in the Ball cast? Some others than yesterday? For Ball's first performance it was Sambé, Acri, Bracewell, Clarke. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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