Going Back to ballet continued...

[Fiz]

Peach3, I think you are right about Darcey Bussell's mother. I did mean parents who had wanted to dance and never had, not those that had tried it and not made it. My eldest went to ballet because she had so much energy and was flexible that I thought it was better for her to do something constructive with it, not because I wanted her to have something I did not have at the same age. Her sister started at two when she cried to join in with her sister and friends at the watch week.

[taxi4ballet]

Children often follow in their parents' footsteps - teaching, the medical profession, armed forces, law, banking, butchers, motor racing - and just think how many acting dynasties there are!

 

Having researched my family history and traced several long-lost relatives, I discovered three electronics engineers in three different branches of the family, who had never met and didn't know about one-another.

 

Definitely something in the genes too!

[Lottie]

Our children have definitely not followed in our foot steps. We're both in the medical profession and non DD is at Uni doing Economics and Management and DS at Central.

[spooky]

Snap Lottie! My husband and I are both scientists but all our three children have taken an art route - one ballet, one art and one musical theatre!

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi Fiz and drdance, Getting back to the main theme of the thread, firstly I feel for anyone who looses the opportunity to dance in there own area, as this was the position I was more or less in until recently, however I was a social dancer anyway. The only difference being I had never started ballet but was a great desire. A few months back one did open and for me it was a dream come true. But what does perplex me a bit,as you both appear to be advanced members you are so reliant on being at your class. OK it works for me too, but if it were not there I would continue with my Ballet as I have my own dance practice studio as I teach sometime (but not ballet), further more I do at least an hours non stop ballet fitness training every morning between my gym and dance practice studio. As for my social dancing, I dance everyday at either classes or dances with the exceptions of Mondays and the occasional Saturday, sometime at more than one venue on the same evening at the weekend, but then I do literally dance all over the country.

 

My question is why ?, as advanced members do you have to have this reliance on actually being there in class to continue, or have I got it wrong?

[Fiz]

All dancers, even then those at the Royal ballet, do class every day! There is a saying "If I go one day without class,I notice. If I go two days without class, my teacher notices. If I go three days without class, everyone notices!"Besides which, if you practise on your own, mistakes creep in as I am sure Anjuli will corroborate.

[hfbrew]

Am actually with Michelle on this one. Yes its great, and far more preferable to attend class if one is available, I certainly have always worked at home if absolutely necessary.

 

In the summer my ds and I occasionally worked with each other. He and his fellow dancers could n't afford to go to class every day between contract, lots of dancers find themselves in this position especially if it involves a considerable commute to a decent class.

 

I had to do a lot of work at home as a student due to a rural location but I had an excellent teacher who was able to advise what was safe to practice and what was not- I also was very strict on myself about careful placement etc. Each lesson that I saw my teacher she was careful to point out any adjustment that needed doing and I was armed with many theory books (no ballet.co and Anjuli in those days.)

 

Result was that when I got to vocacational school I was placed in a higher classical set than some who'd been there since aged 11.

 

I would not advise anyone though to do any ballet practice though unless they have a thorough understanding of what it is they are doing.

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi Fiz

I really love that saying and I guess I agree, that used to be true for me when a girl from work introduced me to Tai Kwan Do, then as missing a day in this case Im taking of fitness training at home, I really did notice, but that was the start of my home gym, and part of the workouts I used to do. But now its adapted for Ballet.

 

As for mistakes creeping in, I have them already., but then the rest of us get nagged at too by our teacher but in a nice way. She also complements us when the current week has been better than the previous one. I only attend one Ballet class a week, but train every day, but I have my sites on a second class but that’s 40 miles away. I do a number of other dance class. For me Ballet and dancing is for love, I do not intend to make a career of it, you may ask do I ever intend to perform?, your dammed right I do. One of my Latin/Salsa dance groups already performs at garden fetes, country shows and events to promote seaside towns like Skegness and I never miss one, its as much about promoting our group to keep it alive and viable with a good number of core dancers.

Coming back to your point about mistakes creeping in, I already notice the odd slip in training videos, however I am unable to distinguish the difference in some cases between something that’s not quite right and styling. The reason I mention this, as when I go away to a residential salsa dance workshops, I usually attend the female styling classes. Ive seen similar things happen with interpretation of ports de bras when added to other steps, particularly the use of fingers. I’ve always been reluctant to add this into my ballet class exercise as a bit of eloquence as that’s not what my teacher has demonstrated either as a step or during our dance routine, what do you think?

[Fiz]

If that is not what or how I was taught, I wouldn't do either, Michelle.our dance school has a show in February and we are in it or else! It is very different from my previous school where we were there under sufferance and were not expected to take part in the show. I wanted to and so did one other dancer, but the others did not, so that was that!

[drdance]

I'm afraid I don't have room at home - I live in a rather small apartment. Also it's a bit more motivating to have a class, and a teacher, and other students to dance with, and there is a small social element to going to a class too.

 

As for 'that old adage'.... "If I go one day without class,I notice. If I go two days without class, my teacher notices. If I go three days without class, everyone notices!"- I ABSOLUTELY HATE THIS!!!! (and it's total rubbish - intricate skills don't disappear overnight, and strength gains are only made at rest). I'm sure many of you have read my posts about dancer health, and my feelings on the 'religion of the daily class'!

 

But I haven't done a ballet class for myself in many many months and I miss it.

[Anjuli_Bai]

What makes ballet different from other forms of dance? Why such an emphasis on taking class with a teacher?

 

Ballet takes the otherwise shared concepts such as turnout, demi-toe, extension, stretch, etc., to a much different and sometimes extreme level. Ballet asks the body to do things for which it was not meant and for which few of us can comfortably achieve.

 

Standing in a correct 5th position is rife with many potential risks; rolling of the ankle, twist to the knees, hips and spine, (and more) unless it is achieved under the guidance of a teacher. A teacher sees the whole picture.

 

The problem is that we cannot see - truly see - what is happening to the whole picture. It has to be seen from "outside" - by another pair of eyes. One can say "well, I do not intend to become a ballerina - so where's the harm?" And, I would agree - unless one puts a leg up on the barre and attempts to stretch. Or if one is trying to stand in 5th position. Or one is (heaven forfend) attempting pointe work. Or if one is truly attempting to educate oneself on - yes, even port de bras.

 

A book can (and has) been written about the correct placement of the arms en haut - how to arrive - where it is placed - and how one moves on. You can read about it, you can work on it - but you cannot "see" it on your own body - it has to be seen from the outside by another pair of eyes.

 

So, it depends upon what you want to achieve: the semblance, the feel of, or the careful education - study - of the ballet.

 

It is true that dancers do band together when necessary to have class when a teacher is not available - but, then, those dancers are professionals (or close to) and they correct one another. And, this kind of thing is usually of short duration.

 

As for the saying of missing a class for a day and you will notice it - miss two days......etc - I agree with it. It's not just a matter of making progress, it is also a matter of keeping up confidence. A dancer who misses class is less mentaly confident and that slight hesitation makes all the difference. On the other hand, I am a fan of rest. At least one solid day a week off for the professional dancer. Complete rest for any injury. Taking a vacation of a week or two or more is a good thing.

 

My rule of thumb always was - while actively dancing - dance. When resting - rest.

[drdance]

As for the saying of missing a class for a day and you will notice it - miss two days......etc - I agree with it. It's not just a matter of making progress, it is also a matter of keeping up confidence. A dancer who misses class is less mentaly confident and that slight hesitation makes all the difference.

 

Perhaps the dancers who miss one class only feel less confident because it has been drilled into their psyche that if they miss a class their technique will disappear?!

 

It doesn't actually happen. The neuromuscular pathways that have been so carefully trained simply do not start to erode after a day or two. All those dancers who 'feel like everything isn't working right' only feel like this because they believe it is so.

 

If you are told something enough times, you will believe it. If you believe it, your body will feel and act in that way. For example, if you approach a certain step, such as pirouettes, or a pose onto demi pointe, with apprehension, it won't look confident and won't be a success. If you believe you can do it, and approach it as such, it is more likely to be successful. Or if you tell yourself you are ill enough times you'll feel ill.

 

I know professional ballet dancers who miss class at least twice a week (it's not in their contract to attend) to focus on body conditioning, or on a specific skill set of their work, and they are still performing at a high level.

[Anjuli_Bai]

 

 

 

Perhaps the dancers who miss one class only feel less confident because it has been drilled into their psyche that if they miss a class their technique will disappear?!

 

It doesn't actually happen. The neuromuscular pathways that have been so carefully trained simply do not start to erode after a day or two. All those dancers who 'feel like everything isn't working right' only feel like this because they believe it is so.

 

If you are told something enough times, you will believe it. If you believe it, your body will feel and act in that way. For example, if you approach a certain step, such as pirouettes, or a pose onto demi pointe, with apprehension, it won't look confident and won't be a success. If you believe you can do it, and approach it as such, it is more likely to be successful. Or if you tell yourself you are ill enough times you'll feel ill.

 

I know professional ballet dancers who miss class at least twice a week (it's not in their contract to attend) to focus on body conditioning, or on a specific skill set of their work, and they are still performing at a high level.

 

 

I am aware of the physical=psychological nexus and have used it to good effect both personally and with my students. However, being aware of it can interfere with its benefits and doesn't always translate into a guarantee of a constant positive outcome.

 

I don't think any sane dancer thinks that missing class will cause their technique to "disappear." The neural pathways don't erude but the response is not as efficient and smooth.

 

It was much more efficacious for me to take a week off and truly rest rather than miss class on an intermittant basis. When I took a week off I felt rested, when I took a day off I felt rusty.

 

As for dancers taking a day or two to focus on body conditioning and/or a specific skill set of their work - they are indeed then not missing class. They are still working on a physical activity connected to their dance vocation.

 

I only speak for myself - everyone makes their own choices.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Anjuli_Bai

[Michelle_Richer]

Fiz: You surprise me a little with you comment about performing in a show as you have to do it or else, isn’t that what this is all about, forgive me, I guess I’m a bit of an extrovert and exhibitionist anyway and would see it as an opportunity to do something Id been training all this time for, the icing on the cake. Anyway good luck with that show, as far as I know my teacher hasn’t ever put on a Ballet show, but I know earlier in the year she put on some form of tap dance show at the local civic centre theatre as a couple of the girls in my class performed there.

 

Drdance: OK about the motivation while being at class, I guess that’s true, but where its not possible you have to have enough self motivation to take thing forward. As for the small social element of class, I think I would rate that a bit further as I always enjoy class and never see it as a chore. I also do another class with the same teacher call Dance Fever which is a combination of Latin, aerobics with Ballet related moves for the cool down.

As for the Adage, I like it.

Your comment about intricate skills not being lost over night, well that depends how well that has been learnt over a number of repetitions, the quality of the muscle memory and setting of the neural pathways. For my social dancing classes, I learn a number of new moves every week some without names, unless they are refreshed regularly they will fade.

 

Anjuli_Bai Ref post 44, if this refers to me as the newcomer on the block, then I think you have lost the plot. Firstly I do attend a weekly Ballet class, secondly I do standing in 5^th both in class work and as part of my daily routine, similarly with leg up on the bar for stretches, both forward and back but only in my daily routine.

 

Yes it helps if you have the feedback of your teacher, but there are times when you have to take the initiative your self. I have never ever been in a position where I have been forced to say “can’t do”, I’ve always been highly motivated in succeeding.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Michelle being new on the board you won't have seen Fiz's previous threads where she was basically told that as an adult she was not allowed to perform in the show and by the way her classes were stopping whilst the rest if the school rehearsed for said show.

 

From what I gather the only problem with the new dance school is one of distance?

 

Anjuli has said many many times on various threads that as a ballet teacher she dies not reckoned anyone practising without a teacher due to the reasons outlined of ballet being do very technical and there being such a capacity to do damage.

[Anjuli_Bai]

Fiz: You surprise me a little with you comment about performing in a show as you have to do it or else, isn’t that what this is all about, forgive me, I guess I’m a bit of an extrovert and exhibitionist anyway and would see it as an opportunity to do something Id been training all this time for, the icing on the cake. Anyway good luck with that show, as far as I know my teacher hasn’t ever put on a Ballet show, but I know earlier in the year she put on some form of tap dance show at the local civic centre theatre as a couple of the girls in my class performed there.

 

Drdance: OK about the motivation while being at class, I guess that’s true, but where its not possible you have to have enough self motivation to take thing forward. As for the small social element of class, I think I would rate that a bit further as I always enjoy class and never see it as a chore. I also do another class with the same teacher call Dance Fever which is a combination of Latin, aerobics with Ballet related moves for the cool down.

As for the Adage, I like it.

Your comment about intricate skills not being lost over night, well that depends how well that has been learnt over a number of repetitions, the quality of the muscle memory and setting of the neural pathways. For my social dancing classes, I learn a number of new moves every week some without names, unless they are refreshed regularly they will fade.

 

Anjuli_Bai Ref post 44, if this refers to me as the newcomer on the block, then I think you have lost the plot. Firstly I do attend a weekly Ballet class, secondly I do standing in 5^th both in class work and as part of my daily routine, similarly with leg up on the bar for stretches, both forward and back but only in my daily routine.

 

Yes it helps if you have the feedback of your teacher, but there are times when you have to take the initiative your self. I have never ever been in a position where I have been forced to say “can’t do”, I’ve always been highly motivated in succeeding.

 

Michelle - regarding post 44 - since I did not quote you, nor anyone else, then the comment was not aimed at you - nor anyone else, - it is a general statement.

 

But I am old - so I often "lose the plot."

Edited October 1, 2012 by Anjuli_Bai

[Michelle_Richer]

PicturesInTheFireLight: I have followed all the posting on this thread from the beginning, I was not aware of other threads of Fiz as you have indicated and I wondered if you had intended to mean posting on this thread. If so I could not find reference to “by the way her classes were stopping whilst the rest if the school rehearsed for said show”. The rest is in this thread anyway and I had previously read it.

 

Anjuli: Thats why I qualified my remark with a conditional IF. So no harm done, anyway I loose the plot sometimes I guess that’s what makes us human and not perfect, I can live with that.

[Anna C]

Anjuli, in all the years I've been reading your posts, I've never known you to lose the plot. :-)

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi SpannerAndPony

 

Off topic what a gorgeous dog, sadly I lost mine in June this year, he died, he was a little tricolour King Charles Cavalier Spaniel, my best friend.

Hope yours is still with you

[Anna C]

Aw, thank you Michelle. That was my beautiful and most beloved boy. We lost him 9 days before Christmas, and still miss him so much having had him for 15 years.

 

We still have one dog, a two year old miniature schnauzer named Bernard. He is equally as naughty as his namesake in Shirley Hughes' poem. :-)

[trog]

Slightly further but what about the ballet classes at the Dance Xchange in Birmingham?

 

I've back taking ballet class at the DanceXchange after being off for a year. The knees are standing up OK so far, although we are only three weeks in. I guess they'll be a wreck at the end of term. It's a shame that I'm down with the dreaded lurgy and can't go tonight. Anyway, if it's not too far for you they are very nice studios and very friendly classes. There is a pay car park opposite, but if you're budget conscience like me, there is lots of free on road parking a short walk away. A few people from the old ballet.co boards have attended over the years. I've been going for about 15 years now and you know, one day it might even make sense.

 

I will dance with teenagers if necessary because no one is ever going to stop me dancing again!

Come on, Fiz, do you remember writing this?!!!

 

I used to take a Grade 6 class with a group of teenage girls. They were a bit wary at first but soon realised I was only there to dance. At the barre, they used to like me to stand at the back, so that when we turned around, they had somebody to copy who could remember the exercises. In the interest of fairness, the teacher also used to take bits from the boys syllabus and have the girls do it with me. This was very good for strength building.

[drdance]

I've been to classes at DX a few times - It's a bit of a trek from here now (about half an hour at least, and rush hour makes things worse), especially after a long day at work but it's something I'll consider if nothing else turns up!

[Fiz]

Trog, there are teenagers in my new class. I don't mind them, I work with them for goodness'sake! One has left and one has gone off long term sick and I miss them both!

[taxi4ballet]

Hi Fiz, let us know how you get on this week...

 

Also, re other posts on this thread, I may well be wrong, but I thought that one of the reasons for daily class was so that you don't stiffen up all over when you have time off and then go and pull a muscle or something the following day.

[webfoot]

DrDance, I go to the Dance Xchange classes in Birmingham City Centre, driving in from Hinckley (takes about 1 hour). I am usually travelling against the main rush hour flow of people trying to get out, although once there is some issue with the traffic the whole system does tend to gridlock.

 

I appreciate that your travel circumstances will be different, but I have been doing this for a couple of years at least. I have been going to the DX classes much longer than that, but from different work places. I fortunately work flexitime so can leave at 4:30 to be there for a class at 6:00.

 

I have always done ballet (since I was 3, apart from a couple of short breaks) but would really not like to do a class on my own. I have too many faults that creep in if I don't have a teacher correcting them. I am envious of those confident enough to do it themselves as 2 / 3 classes per week is really not enough. Although the benefits now are about avoiding getting any worse, rather than improving the technique. :-)

[Michelle_Richer]

Webfoot: I am right at the beginning of the learning curve of Ballet as I only do one day a week which is tomorrow, when I found a class locally it was a dream come true as I had never do it when I was little as some in our class have, Some time back I had enquired but it was only available for youngsters. However I do dance every day except Mondays on other classes and dance socially, I was also teaching dance last night but that’s another story. In the beginning I was happy with that, it was well within my capability. One of my dance instructor’s (not ballet) mum, who was a professional Ballerina often asks after me and ask if I intended going for grading, at that time it never entered my head, but it planted the seed.

 

Where I live there is no opportunity to do Ballet locally other than the class I already do, however after remarks on this thread, I have contacted a class some 40miles away that can accommodate me, but that’s still only two days a week. I also do a one hour Ballet workout every day without fail, even on ballet days, but that’s more about fitness than technique. As for faults at this stage I have many, but then so do the rest of the girls in my class, non want to be professionals, however it is my intention to ultimately perform as I am a bit of an exhibitionist anyway.

 

My teacher this year put on a show with tap at our local civic centre theatre, two of the girls from my class performed in it, I’m not interested in tap. As far as I am aware she has never staged a Ballet performance, that what I would like to participate in and intend to plant the seed one day

 

I’m shortly going to increase my daily workout significantly, I have ask my teacher to look at the plan as it will be documented and basically comment on it for approval as I’m inclined to stretch the envelope a bit. I have my own gym and dance studio at home anyway, the only drawback is my dance floor, as it was never intended for ballet, its by Harlequin dance floors and is intended to be resilient against high heels during Latin dance, which it does very effectively. However its extremely slippy in Ballet slippers and has to be used with care, especially with foot on the barre during back bends.

 

So the frequency of my classes is not by choice, I shall simply work round it, but I have the determination to succeed meeting the objective I have set for myself.

 

I do actively listen to what people say on this forum and even though I may play devils advocate a bit, it in my nature to question everything.

[Fiz]

I am not very happy. I am getting considerably less dance than I did with Christina. Tonight I was the only adult that turned up . Neither does the teacher approve of adults being put on pointe.I am going to email my previous teacher later. It is more than time that she sorted something out

[Michelle_Richer]

AWWW that awful Fiz, are you in a position to fund private lessons with your old tutor, thats if she has the facility to do this. I do hope thing come good for you, Take care.

[Fiz]

She won't do them, Michelle.

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi Fiz

I guess she must be rich then, or does'nt have the facility.

 

Went to Ballet this morning after doing 2 1/2 hours workout at home, think it payed off. I was late taking up my position so I got the spot nearest my teacher (normally ist in the middle), thought Oh Sh**t, but got several not bads and only one watch that hip, some of the other girls got a bit of a pasting though, made me feel good. Think I will go for that position in the future as it does consentrate the mind a bit (a bit of motivation with a big stick). Had an email from another Ballet class but they are 40miles away, spoke to a lady on the phone, that will give me another day a week possibly two, I can organise one with difficulty but two is almost impossible with other commitments I have which involbes too many other people. I am sure Nickie my current teacher will tutor me privately on an ad hock basis, especially as I have my own studio, nearly ask her today but need to get things sorted out first, anyway Nicky will be organising any possible performancies at our local theatre so I need to keep in with her, even if im only the ugly duckling

[Fiz]

Unfortunately, where I live, I am lucky to have anything. Adult ballet is very thin on the ground round here. The class I used to go to only started in January too. I think the owner just doesn't care. I have had no reply to my email

[Michelle_Richer]

I tried another one to day that Nickie gave me, someone called Clair, appently she tried opening a course for adults but with absenteeism it was not sustainable, she has over 300 Children. So that was a bit of a flop, I must admit after a good morning I have really felt deflated this afternoon, such a long time to the next class and I really need to get on.

[taxi4ballet]

I know of a school near us which left a list on the table in the changing room for adults to put their names down if they were interested in the teacher starting an adult class the following term.

 

Lots of people signed the form so she started a new class, only to find about three people turned up for the first couple of classes, which wasn't enough for her to cover the cost of the hall, so she cancelled it.