MAB Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, MellissaHuntsley said: .... reading through this link - 100%truth, half and half, or embellished threads? How do you know to look for these threads MAB? Actually I didn't have to look, it turned up on my Facebook page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coated Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) MellissaHuntsley, are you seriously trying to work out who might have come forward? Whatever actually happened, I'm fairly certain that the outing of 'whistleblowers' will help no one. Edited February 11, 2018 by Coated 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) Melissa, I'm "bothered" at you actually naming former ENB dancers and saying they "might be involved"! I'm going to hide your post for the time being as it is too speculative for my liking. Edited February 11, 2018 by Anna C Edited to remove quote. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MellissaHuntsley Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 The articles (both) state former dancers - I didn't say they were involved - the articles said it... that's not my personal opinion - that's the reality of the social media link ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 What's the problem with that? The identity of former ENB dancers is not in dispute and some of them have apparently (and we're supposed to accept this) complained about how they were treated whilst they were with the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 It's speculative to list a whole group of dancers by name and wonder if they might be the source of allegations within ENB. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, MellissaHuntsley said: The articles (both) state former dancers - I didn't say they were involved - the articles said it... that's not my personal opinion - that's the reality of the social media link ... The article did not name any sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) Actually, the article, in referring to a dancer who finished his/her career early and another who wanted to take a break to pursue other interests, does narrow down at least two of the complainants. I can take an educated guess as to who those particular dancers are. Edited February 11, 2018 by aileen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Just now, aileen said: Actually, the article, in referring to a dancer who finished his/her career early and another who wanted to take a break to pursue other interests, does narrow down at least two of the complainants. It may well do, but that is not the same as naming individuals here. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabitha Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, aileen said: What's the problem with that? The identity of former ENB dancers is not in dispute and some of them have apparently (and we're supposed to accept this) complained about how they were treated whilst they were with the company. Aileen, you have made several posts which suggest that you don’t believe any of the allegations, which is odd given a large amount of information now in the public arena which suggests there is some kind of problem. I wonder how you can be so sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabitha Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, aileen said: Actually, the article, in referring to a dancer who finished his/her career early and another who wanted to take a break to pursue other interests, does narrow down at least two of the complainants. Not all the dancers who have left in the last 5 years were listed in the post. Many others have left who weren’t listed. People tend to focus on the more senior company members but lots of more junior dancers have left as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I have no inside knowledge and I have no idea whether the allegations are true or not. I have said previously that a large number of dancers leaving within a short space of time is a big red flag. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coated Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 (edited) I have seen the effects of bad workplace relations on a number of occasions, and what it can do to reasonably well adjusted, confident individuals. If anyone feels they need to leave a company because they are managed out or they can't continue working in an environment that affects their mental wellbeing, they don't just lose a job, they lose faith in their abilities, their confidence and sometimes their health. Stress can do awful things to people. Some of the issues mentioned might not sound like the end of the world by themselves, but living in constant expectation of being next in line will wear people down. Sometimes life is more important than art. Edited February 11, 2018 by Coated 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 14 hours ago, MAB said: This has appeared on social media, everything in this article is accurate. http://www.balletposition.com/blog/the-two-faces-of-english-national-ballet Goodness me, how sad. I do not see any reason why dancers would invent what they stated in this article. This really changed my perception of Tamara Rojo. How is this possible in a 21st century ballet company? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 It is inconceivable that a veteran journalist like @TeresaGuerreir2 in her article about the @ENBallet is unable to distinguish between opinions and facts. In every ballet company there are dancers who do not agree with how they are evaluated by their artistic directors. The only fact in these libels is that Tamara and Isaac are togethre, the rest are opinions sent from the cowardice of anonymity and, therefore, whoever publishes them without verifying the opinion of those denounced is doing tendentious and sensationalist journalism or pursuing shameful spurious goals. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Nina G. said: Goodness me, how sad. I do not see any reason why dancers would invent what they stated in this article. This really changed my perception of Tamara Rojo. How is this possible in a 21st century ballet company? What makes you think it's true? Have you never seen before peoples’ reputation destroyed to find out, after months or, even, years that everything was a fake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Erica, as previously discussed, it seems highly unlikely that all these allegations of troubling working conditions could have come from nowhere, completely out of the blue. I find it concerning that you are using words like "libels" and "cowardice" to accuse the sources and the journalists of these articles. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, Erica said: It is inconceivable that a veteran journalist like @TeresaGuerreir2 in her article about the @ENBallet is unable to distinguish between opinions and facts. In every ballet company there are dancers who do not agree with how they are evaluated by their artistic directors. The only fact in these libels is that Tamara and Isaac are togethre, the rest are opinions sent from the cowardice of anonymity and, therefore, whoever publishes them without verifying the opinion of those denounced is doing tendentious and sensationalist journalism or pursuing shameful spurious goals. If you genuinely feel that is the case you should take it up with the authors of the article. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 31 minutes ago, Erica said: It is inconceivable that a veteran journalist like @TeresaGuerreir2 in her article about the @ENBallet is unable to distinguish between opinions and facts. In every ballet company there are dancers who do not agree with how they are evaluated by their artistic directors. The only fact in these libels is that Tamara and Isaac are togethre, the rest are opinions sent from the cowardice of anonymity and, therefore, whoever publishes them without verifying the opinion of those denounced is doing tendentious and sensationalist journalism or pursuing shameful spurious goals. So are ENB dancers (past and present) an unusually petty and jealous group, or do similar stories circulate about other UK companies and just haven't made it into the press yet? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Erica said: What makes you think it's true? Have you never seen before peoples’ reputation destroyed to find out, after months or, even, years that everything was a fake? I really have no intention to get into any further argument but may I ask you what makes you think it is untrue? What if everything is NOT fake? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceinwoolfland Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 It’s not surprising that they’re unwilling to put their names to the claims given the hostile and fearful working environment they describe. I can see how such a situation could easily arise, especially with Rojo’s cult status and her questionable relationship with one of her employees. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromthebalcony Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 13 hours ago, Coated said: I have seen the effects of bad workplace relations on a number of occasions, and what it can do to reasonably well adjusted, confident individuals. If anyone feels they need to leave a company because they are managed out or they can't continue working in an environment that affects their mental wellbeing, they don't just lose a job, they lose faith in their abilities, their confidence and sometimes their health. Stress can do awful things to people. Some of the issues mentioned might not sound like the end of the world by themselves, but living in constant expectation of being next in line will wear people down. Sometimes life is more important than art. Having been in and around a number of ballet schools and companies here in the U.S., "living in constant expectation of being next in line" is a way of life. I was recently counseling a mom of a 15 year old male dance student at a very prestigious school here in the states. She was concerned because he was injured, but the men's teacher and the choreographer were insisting he rehearse and perform a number of pas de deux. Both told the student that if he took himself out as professional dancer, he would be fired. Now, we know this is not true, but the intimidation was ever present in their conversations. This young man was fearful he would lose his place at the school, and wanted to dance, although his doctor had recommended otherwise. Luckily, the mother stepped in and took him out to avoid permanent damage. But, he has been somewhat ostracized by the men's teacher/coach in the school. Countless stories of intimidation exist in the ballet school/company world. I have had students of numerous prestigious schools both here and abroad tell me horror stories of threats about weight gain and girls resorting to eating next to nothing. And, yet, this type of intimidation is not just part of the ballet world. It exists everywhere in many industries and walks of life. My concern here is severalfold. What is the outcome the "whistleblowers" desire? That has not been clear. It is my understanding the Council did a review and found everything to be satisfactory. Then another article surfaces. Will the only resolution satisfactory be that Rojo steps down? Will the ex-dancers (and the alleged others) be happy if the company loses its funding? What is it they want to see happen? Or do they just want to continue grinding an axe? Continued articles will not help this matter. Additionally, I find it extremely disturbing to have Loipa Araujo included in the most recent article. This woman is a jewel in the ballet world both as a dancer and a teacher. The dancers at ENB are extremely blessed to have her, as she could be teaching and coaching anywhere in the world. For some, she has been like a mother. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Yes, I'd also like to know what outcome the 'whistleblowers' are seeking. I assume it is that Rojo step down. I thought that the comment about Araujo was very petty. There are numerous photographs of her with dancers at ENB on instagram. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 And I assume that there is going to be a constant trickle of articles like this, which posters will no doubt bring to our attention on this forum, for some time to come. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Lizbie1 said: So are ENB dancers (past and present) an unusually petty and jealous group, or do similar stories circulate about other UK companies and just haven't made it into the press yet? A very good point. Although it is history now, a certain ballet master (not ENB) bullied the girls to such a degree that some left, including a young woman tipped for the top. However that appeared to be the only complaint concerning that company. What we are seeing here is multiple complaints that cannot be dismissed because they are so serious and we know they are valid because of the unprecedented number of leavers in the last few years, some of whom have joined and speedily departed. That alone proves something is very much amiss. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) My pc made an error, but what I posted is on the page. Edited February 12, 2018 by MAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 MAB, I take it that you are wanting to see Rojo go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalletcoForum Moderators Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Certain posts on this thread are hidden pending review by the Moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, aileen said: MAB, I take it that you are wanting to see Rojo go. No, but a dressing down by the board and her future behaviour closely monitored would be wise. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Why don't you want to see her go? You have been against her from the very beginning when she replaced Wayne Eagling, something which you've never forgiven her for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 38 minutes ago, MAB said: What we are seeing here is multiple complaints that cannot be dismissed because they are so serious and we know they are valid because of the unprecedented number of leavers in the last few years, some of whom have joined and speedily departed. That alone proves something is very much amiss. Actually, it proves nothing. It may suggest something, but it doesn't prove it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, aileen said: Why don't you want to see her go? You have been against her from the very beginning when she replaced Wayne Eagling, something which you've never forgiven her for. Let's not escalate/get personal on this, please. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Aileen, I have tried to send you this privately but it says that you cannot accept messages. So I have no alternative but to risk it here even though I agree with what alison has just said. I'm afraid that your hyper-activity on this thread is making it seem as if you are pursuing some sort of agenda. It is also starting to come across a bit like mischief-making. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this issue, it is a very serious subject. I also find it upsetting because, if things are going badly wrong, I want them to be resolved quickly and the Company to thrive. I think that we all have to respect the right of those who feel they have something to say in the wake of The Times article to express that on here or on other social media. Equally, those who wish to defend or deny that there is anything amiss have a perfect right to do so. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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