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The Royal Ballet: Swan Lake, anticipating the new production, Summer 2018


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So first time posting but long observing...anyway the idea of this new production has really made me consider how we view ballet in comparison to other art forms.

I have no problem at all with ‘new’ versions of the classics, having danced in and still enjoy watching one well known modern version of Swank Lake. However I really wonder why a major company like the Royal Ballet feels it is ok to tamper with the choreographic text; of course there is in a sense a tradition of this happening, with Ashton’s Act IV etc but I doubt the opera would consider it acceptable to change the notes of a score because it was felt to be an improvement. Of course there are new productions, and that’s fine, but it is interesting that the ballet as created by Petipa and Ivanov (particularly the last act it seems) is considered so insignificant - surely it is a who piece of art created through the combination of the music & movement?

I believe that there are some difficulties when interpreting the notation as it has come down to us, and that there may be different versions created for different dancers, but it would seem more worthwhile to do what I believe Anthony Dowell did and attempt to created a choreographic text as faithful as possible to the original successful production? Or if this is not desired, then why not be even more courageous and just choreograph a whole new ballet to the score?

There seems to be a lack of respect given to historic  choreography which is not quite the same for more recent creations. Would a modern choreographer attempt to improve/ adapt Symphonic Variations?? Would it be seen as acceptable to change a Bach cantata or Shakespeare play? Yes dance is of course more difficult to pin down & will always change due to the way a dancer moves but I would have hoped the Royal Ballet - having historically been seen as performing in a somewhat more ‘authentic’ way when compared to some other traditions (keeping the mime, not having a jester, not having a happy ending) - was not keen to continue to do this. 

I’m sorry if this is a ramble, but for some reason this new production has really made me think! 

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Thanks Alison :-) perhaps most of act IV is as you say missing; it would certainly make it more easy to explain - perhaps other forum members more knowledgeable than me will know?

I’m sure that I have read that both Dowell and more recently Alexei Ratmansky in his Zürich production went back to the original notation in an attempt to restore as much of the original choreography as possible. It would be interesting to compare the two last acts. 

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9 hours ago, RuthE said:

 

Apologies if I have missed somebody suggesting this further up the thread, but my hunch is the opposite; I wondered if the reason Naghdi is not dancing the title role in Manon is because she is preparing her first Odette/Odile.

 

Very much my thought too! 

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10 hours ago, RuthE said:

 

Apologies if I have missed somebody suggesting this further up the thread, but my hunch is the opposite; I wondered if the reason Naghdi is not dancing the title role in Manon is because she is preparing her first Odette/Odile.

My feeling is all principals of right age should be given a go but they are saying six casts?  Which reduces that liklihood. Of course can have six casts and more leads. If only six lead pairs. Nagdi wiuld probably come behind some others who have been there longer. But hopefully more people will get a shot but Lamb, Vuthberydon and Nunez are a given.

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20 minutes ago, Shya100 said:

My feeling is all principals of right age should be given a go but they are saying six casts?  Which reduces that liklihood. Of course can have six casts and more leads. If only six lead pairs. Nagdi wiuld probably come behind some others who have been there longer. But hopefully more people will get a shot but Lamb, Vuthberydon and Nunez are a given.

 

I was wondering who this mysterious 'Vuthberydon' was; then I looked at my keyboard... I too sometimes place my fingers wrongly and the most strange results emerge! Anyway, yes, I'm sure Cuthbertson will get a shot.

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41 minutes ago, Shya100 said:

My feeling is all principals of right age should be given a go but they are saying six casts?  Which reduces that liklihood. Of course can have six casts and more leads. If only six lead pairs. Nagdi wiuld probably come behind some others who have been there longer. But hopefully more people will get a shot but Lamb, Vuthberydon and Nunez are a given.

 

"All Principals of right age should be given a go..." ?

What is the "right age" if I may ask?

Casting is not so much based on which Principal has been there longer but is based on suitability and capability to dance this highly classical and demanding role. 

 

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3 hours ago, Ianlond said:

I’m sure that I have read that both Dowell and more recently Alexei Ratmansky in his Zürich production went back to the original notation in an attempt to restore as much of the original choreography as possible. It would be interesting to compare the two last acts. 

 

The Dowell and Ratmansky Act 4's are remarkably similar in both choreography and the floor patterns. The main differences is in the final poses. Ratmansky seems to have used the old Royal Ballet floor plan for the final pose of the swans, and he cuts the storm music. The mime is much more detailed than the Dowell's and the style of dancing is in keeping with the 19th Century, low turnouts, legs on ankles. demi-pointe - It is stunning.

 

I love Dowell because he consciously tried to go back to the notations whenever possible and he included what was known at the time. We have to bear in mind, that not many people actually knew how to read the notations at all in the 1980s and Roland John Wiley and Sir Anthony did a very admirable job given those circumstances.

 

I do like Bintley's waltz personally and I have to wonder if it is hated because it replaced Ashton's waltz? I wonder why it wasn't thought possible to reconstruct the Act 1 Waltz though as Ratmansky seems to have done it. Was it because the floor plans were sketchy?

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3 minutes ago, CHazell2 said:

 

The Dowell and Ratmansky Act 4's are remarkably similar in both choreography and the floor patterns. The main differences is in the final poses. Ratmansky seems to have used the old Royal Ballet floor plan for the final pose of the swans, and he cuts the storm music. The mime is much more detailed than the Dowell's and the style of dancing is in keeping with the 19th Century, low turnouts, legs on ankles. demi-pointe - It is stunning.

 

I love Dowell because he consciously tried to go back to the notations whenever possible and he included what was known at the time. We have to bear in mind, that not many people actually knew how to read the notations at all in the 1980s and Roland John Wiley and Sir Anthony did a very admirable job given those circumstances.

 

I do like Bintley's waltz personally and I have to wonder if it is hated because it replaced Ashton's waltz? I wonder why it wasn't thought possible to reconstruct the Act 1 Waltz though as Ratmansky seems to have done it. Was it because the floor plans were sketchy?

 

That's very interesting, CHazell2. I'd love to see the Ratmansky production.

 

I really really don't like Bintley's waltz - it all looks so messy and cluttered (and maybe that's in contrast to the previous waltz, but I think it applies anyway). And not helped by the costumes and props etc.

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6 minutes ago, Nina G. said:

 

"All Principals of right age should be given a go..." ?

What is the "right age" if I may ask?

Casting is not so much based on which Principal has been there longer but is based on suitability and capability to dance this highly classical and demanding role. 

 

Well given they are principal I am inclined to think they all have what it takes to do it. 20'/30's...about right for character who is young. I would like to see as many as possible attempt it but with four big hitters and this talk of six casts I do wonder.

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3 minutes ago, bridiem said:

 

That's very interesting, CHazell2. I'd love to see the Ratmansky production.

 

I really really don't like Bintley's waltz - it all looks so messy and cluttered (and maybe that's in contrast to the previous waltz, but I think it applies anyway). And not helped by the costumes and props etc.

Clips of the Ratmansky production are on youtube, I thoroughly recommend having a look. I liked the costumes in the Dowell production but I agree about the scenery - it was very gaudy and dark. Apparently Sir Anthony wanted it to be set in mediaeval times but the designer, Yolanda Sonnabend had other ideas. I like the concept of a Faberge egg but it didn't quite work out.

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11 minutes ago, CHazell2 said:

Clips of the Ratmansky production are on youtube, I thoroughly recommend having a look. I liked the costumes in the Dowell production but I agree about the scenery - it was very gaudy and dark. Apparently Sir Anthony wanted it to be set in mediaeval times but the designer, Yolanda Sonnabend had other ideas. I like the concept of a Faberge egg but it didn't quite work out.

 

Thanks, I'll look at youtube.

 

I was actually very upset when the Dowell production premièred, because I found it so dark and crowded and 'heavy' compared to the previous RB version which I absolutely loved in its clarity and (comparative) simplicity. And I really disliked the new swan tutus. But over the years I've come to be very fond of much of the Dowell production too, in fact, and I felt very upset when I saw it for the last time! (Fickle or what.) The only aspect I never came round to was the waltz; but my eyes gradually adjusted to (most of) the costumes and some of the sets, and I came to appreciate the very different beauty of this production.

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I wonder whether it would be better to have a new production with the Dowell choreographical text with the new stage designs. I like Liam Scarlett but I hope that this new Swan Lake does not turn out to be an expensive failure. Still we will see

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Let's not all assume the worst from the outset - we might find ourselves pleasantly surprised (or perhaps, having really low expectations, it will turn out to be rather better than we think :) )

 

(And I actually love(d) the girls' waltz costumes: they're probably my favourite bit of the whole production.)

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19 hours ago, zxDaveM said:

 

Then don’t go see it. It’s not rocket science

 

That's obvious but I like to support my fave dancers.

 

As for the change in choreography I see no problem with it personally. A ballet as old as swan lake or sleeping beauty etc would get dull after a while wouldn't it? Though it has different dancers it would be the same ol' thing. On top of that ballet evolves through time, the dancers are capable of more than they did in the 19th century. In the next few generations they'll probably do tweaks and new choreography for Ashton and Macmillians work. The ballet companies need to shake things up a bit to keep the audience coming, and what better company to do it than the RB.

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1 hour ago, MissMonk said:

On top of that ballet evolves through time, the dancers are capable of more than they did in the 19th century. In the next few generations they'll probably do tweaks and new choreography for Ashton and Macmillians work. The ballet companies need to shake things up a bit to keep the audience coming, and what better company to do it than the RB.

Absalutely ballet evolves but just because a dancer can do something, it doesn’t follow that they *should*. I completely agree that the Royal Ballet should shake things up, and continue producing (even more) new work and, when appropriate, new productions. But in terms of the classics perhaps this could take the form of being generally interested in researching and producing versions as ‘authentic’ (& I realise that is a problematic term in itself!) as possible - compared to say music where many leading orchestras do play with a greater awareness of period style than was the case thirty or so years ago - this approach seems much less common in dance.

In terms of ‘tweaking’ the MacMillan or Ashton (or indeed Balanchine, Robbins etc.) yes then i’m sure that is done to a degree but adding new choreography surely makes a huge assumption about the original choreography which - personally - does seem to rather disregard the importance of the choreographer and original creators of the work. 

 

5 hours ago, CHazell2 said:

 

The Dowell and Ratmansky Act 4's are remarkably similar in both choreography and the floor patterns. The main differences is in the final poses. Ratmansky seems to have used the old Royal Ballet floor plan for the final pose of the swans, and he cuts the storm music. The mime is much more detailed than the Dowell's and the style of dancing is in keeping with the 19th Century, low turnouts, legs on ankles. demi-pointe - It is stunning.

 

I love Dowell because he consciously tried to go back to the notations whenever possible and he included what was known at the time. We have to bear in mind, that not many people actually knew how to read the notations at all in the 1980s and Roland John Wiley and Sir Anthony did a very admirable job given those circumstances.

Thanks CHazell2, this is very interesting! It is a shame that the Royal Ballet can’t continue and add to the development of this more ‘authentic’ performance practice, where the work of the originators of the work is truly valued and made living through modern performance & staging. 

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The ROH article does make it clear that more than 6 leading casts will have an opportunity to dance the new Swan Lake when it returns to the rep.

 

My guesses for this summer are:

Nunez with Muntagirov (which has been confirmed)

Lamb with McRae or Bonelli

Cuthbertson with Clarke or Kish*

Osipova with Hallberg, Bonelli or Hirano*

Takada with McRae or Campbell

Naghdi with Ball.

 

* Personally, I would have Kish and Hirano alongside Soares as dancing Von Rothbarts.

 

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1 minute ago, capybara said:

The ROH article does make it clear that more than 6 leading casts will have an opportunity to dance the new Swan Lake when it returns to the rep.

 

My guesses for this summer are:

Nunez with Muntagirov (which has been confirmed)

Lamb with McRae or Bonelli

Cuthbertson with Clarke or Kish*

Osipova with Hallberg, Bonelli or Hirano*

Takada with McRae or Campbell

Naghdi with Ball.

 

* Personally, I would have Kish and Hirano alongside Soares as dancing Von Rothbarts.

 

 

No Hayward, Capybara?  I would be surprised and saddened if that were the case.  

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On 12/28/2017 at 10:46, Sim said:

Thanks for taking the time to sum up the article, Capybara.  Hmmm some interesting concepts.  I hope that the ending stays the same, i.e. the two lovers throwing themselves in the lake.  I really dislike the happy ending version!

Hi Sim, having read the article in the House magazine, I think it will be the sad tragic ending as Scarlett is quoted as saying that the music dictates this - phew!!!  I think we can also be sure that it is the one dancer who will perform both Odette and Odile - another phew!!!!

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1 hour ago, Bruce Wall said:

 

No Hayward, Capybara?  I would be surprised and saddened if that were the case.  

 

As I've said a few posts earlier in the thread, my hunch is that Naghdi may be given this one first.  I don't doubt they'll bring the new production back pretty soon afterwards and that any newish principal who hasn't yet debuted the role will do so then.

 

I am a great fan of Hayward but at the moment I can visualise Naghdi in this particular role much more readily.

 

Personally I'm still waiting to see Lauren Cuthbertson dance Odette/Odile, as she's been out with one or other of her long-term injuries for the last 2 revivals of the old production, which means I've never had the chance to see her do it!

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On 02/01/2018 at 01:33, Wulff said:

I agree whole heartedly with Floss's comments. It seems that my worst fears are about to be realised and that we are going to get a trendy "concept" version of SL, which while paying lip service to respecting the Petipa/Ivanov text - and for that matter the libretto too - ditches much of the choreography in favour of Scarlett's innovations. Much as I respect Scarletts own original creations I find it hard to believe that he will reveal himself as a better choreographer than Petipa or Ivanov. I think that the RB can no longer claim to be a guardian of the 19th century classics, especially since they seem to have made no effort to research the notations that are available in the Harvard collection. In future, in order to see productions closer to the original texts we shall have to look elsewhere.

 

It's interesting that Scarlett seems to be thinking of the entire production from Siegfried's viewpoint.  It is a concept that Christopher Wheeldon utilised too, when he created a Swan Lake for Pennsylvania Ballet back in 2004.  Wheeldon was in his early 30s then, just as Scarlett is now. Neither man ever got to dance Siegfried themselves, both giving up performance in favour of choreography.  Perhaps if they had they might have approached it differently. 

 

The Wheeldon version came to the Edinburgh festival, in 2004 I think.  The concept there was that it was set in the world of Degas, and most of it took place inside the head of the leading male dancer as a dream / fantasy. Rothbart was a rich, corrupt patron eyeing up the females.  There were some very pretty moments as the corps of Degas style girls gathered and rehearsed. But the main difficulty was that if Odette was only a dream, then nothing is at stake, there was no real betrayal or sacrifice.  

 

There do seem to be some parallels with how some aspects of Scarlett's production has been described so far. I note that the article says that Siegfried will be on stage throughout.  But the ballet isn't called Siegfried: it's called Swan Lake, and it is her ballet, not his. 

 

Wheeldon had the freedom to reinvent Swan Lake for a company that did not have the traditions and well established text  that the Royal Ballet possesses. Scarlett is in a different position.  Making Rothbart a courtier who is already present in Act 1, and making him a dancing character really is a major shift. As Wulff says, we may be in for a "concept" version which  ditches much of the original and radically redraws the plot line.  I would be very happy to be completely mistaken on this. 

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I was hoping for a combination of the Dowell Swan Lake, with the restoration of at least some of the Ashton bits.  No disrespect to Scarlett, but he isn't in the same league as Ashton yet. 

 

I didn't have a problem with the long skirts for the swans, what I did have a problem with was the fact that Odette was wearing such a different outfit, she looked like she was either from a completely different species, or she was a baby bird amongst adults.  I always thought it looked a bit daft visually.  

 

Isn't Siegfried on stage pretty much all the way through anyway?  Apart from going off to catch his breath after various energetic bursts?  And I hate the idea of a dancing Rothbart, personally.  As he is normally on stage a lot of the time when Odette/Odile is also on, are we in for a "Rothbart does to Swan Lake what Clara is now doing to the Nutcracker", leaping around distracting the eye during those gorgeous pdd?  

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7 hours ago, RuthE said:

Personally I'm still waiting to see Lauren Cuthbertson dance Odette/Odile, as she's been out with one or other of her long-term injuries for the last 2 revivals of the old production, which means I've never had the chance to see her do it!

She was beautiful in it the couple of times I saw her, and after the magnificent Sleeping Beauty I saw her dance last year I am sure she will be even better now.

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55 minutes ago, Fonty said:

 

Isn't Siegfried on stage pretty much all the way through anyway?  Apart from going off to catch his breath after various energetic bursts?  And I hate the idea of a dancing Rothbart, personally.  As he is normally on stage a lot of the time when Odette/Odile is also on, are we in for a "Rothbart does to Swan Lake what Clara is now doing to the Nutcracker", leaping around distracting the eye during those gorgeous pdd?  

Siegfried is the only character who appears in all four acts (in both the original 1877 production and the 1895 revision). Sir Peter Wright, I think it was, said that though Swan Lake is Odette's ballet, it is Siegfried's story.

I understand that one reason for introducing Rothbart earlier is to make more sense of the way in which he is immediately accepted by the Prince's mother when he arrives at the ball. What I glean from the article is that the aim has been to make the characters and situations more credible. In the same vein, and I am not sure if it has been mentioned before, the aspiring brides will not be wearing identical dresses.

 

James

 

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I've no objection to the brides all wearing identical dresses - in fact, they can all have identical hairstyles as well for all I care - as long as the production makes it clear that we're seeing them from Siegfried's perspective and they might just as well be identikit as far as he's concerned because none of them are Odette.

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3 hours ago, alison said:

I've no objection to the brides all wearing identical dresses - in fact, they can all have identical hairstyles as well for all I care - as long as the production makes it clear that we're seeing them from Siegfried's perspective and they might just as well be identikit as far as he's concerned because none of them are Odette.

Good point, Alison.  I think it makes total sense.  

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Many people seem to hate the Bintley waltz and love theAshton version act IV. My thoughts on these items are that as regards the waltz Bintley has followed quite closely Petipa's libretto  (in this connexion check out Roland John Wilely's book on the Tchaikovsky Ballets.) The Ashton version of ActIV in my opinion involved far too much running around by the corps in order to form beautiful floor patterns at the expense of drama, and it is interesting to note that Ratmansky"s reconstruction is very similar to the current RB version.

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17 hours ago, alison said:

I've no objection to the brides all wearing identical dresses - in fact, they can all have identical hairstyles as well for all I care - as long as the production makes it clear that we're seeing them from Siegfried's perspective and they might just as well be identikit as far as he's concerned because none of them are Odette.

 

I rather liked one of the Russian versions (I think) where the '5/6 Princesses' were in different costumes and then led the different national dances. Or am i thinking of something else....

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