The Royal Ballet: Swan Lake, anticipating the new production, Summer 2018

[bridiem]

35 minutes ago, Mary said:

I know it doesn't work like that but, I wish they had saved the money spent on all the unnecessary   building work and used it to keep seat prices the same, at least in the amphi- because, if the concern is access for all, that is the real issue.....

 

On the other hand, they have lost funding, and someone must pay for a very expensive new production....

 

Good point, Mary. Who cares about access to the building if you can't afford to go to the performances??

[Sim]

In yesterday's Evening Standard, in its 'things to see in 2018' section, they inform us that the RB "dances Frederick Ashton's Swan Lake, with new choreography by Liam Scarlett."    ???  😂

[zxDaveM]

29 minutes ago, Sim said:

In yesterday's Evening Standard, in its 'things to see in 2018' section, they inform us that the RB "dances Frederick Ashton's Swan Lake, with new choreography by Liam Scarlett."    ???  😂

 

When you see stuff like that, it makes you wonder about the rest of the paper’s ‘accuracy’ on more crucial reporting of things like politics, news, science, etc. 

Which is sad in these times of ‘fake news’ accusations on almost everything in today’s hostile climate - makes you wonder who to believe, or believe in

[Pas de Quatre]

As an aside, if you have ever been involved in anything that is later reported in the press, you will know that inaccuracies often get printed. Hence the ironic statement "It must be true, I read it in the papers". Our family has updated this to "It must be true, I saw it online ". 

[Nina G.]

2 hours ago, bridiem said:

 

Good point, Mary. Who cares about access to the building if you can't afford to go to the performances??

 

...it gives better access to the building to those who CAN afford the expensive tickets ...:)

[bangorballetboy]

11 hours ago, bridiem said:

As far as I'm concerned it's a staple of the repertoire, not a kind of pantomime or West End musical for people to go to once and so they don't mind how much they pay. 

 

Thing is, for the vast, vast majority of people, a trip to the ballet (and it's more likely to be Swan Lake than anything else) is a one-off occasion.

[bridiem]

6 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

Thing is, for the vast, vast majority of people, a trip to the ballet (and it's more likely to be Swan Lake than anything else) is a one-off occasion.

 

Well there are quite a lot of 'regulars' after all; and if the ROH only caters for an audience that has had no opportunity to develop any critical assessment of what they're seeing, how can they seriously claim to be nurturing/developing the art form? Which is, I assume, why they get such a high level of public funding.

[capybara]

30 minutes ago, Nina G. said:

 

...it gives better access to the building to those who CAN afford the expensive tickets ...:)

 

Correction: it mainly gives better access to the building to the winers and diners!

[Bruce Wall]

Just a quick question:  The prices on the first, say, 10 seats of Upper Slips AA or BB - Have they ever before been at a different tariff than the other seats in the Upper Slips??  Given what they are [Due to leg length I really can't sit there without coming away feeling as if I need to see a chiropractor] they appear to be quite pricey now. 

 

I know one person who sits there religiously at a vast number of ROH performances - both ballet and opera.  I wonder now if they will attend with anything like the same frequency.  This is - I think - a considerable climb in rates.  I may, of course, be wrong.

 

Grateful for your kind advice.  Much thanks. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Bruce Wall

[penelopesimpson]

4 hours ago, Sim said:

In yesterday's Evening Standard, in its 'things to see in 2018' section, they inform us that the RB "dances Frederick Ashton's Swan Lake, with new choreography by Liam Scarlett."    ???  😂

Possibly by the same reporter who said Matthew Golding was going to be the next great star at RB

[penelopesimpson]

4 hours ago, bridiem said:

 

Good point, Mary. Who cares about access to the building if you can't afford to go to the performances??

Adding my two-pennyworth, I am a regular and I do splash out on the better seats but limit performances I attend as prices rise.  Personally, I am sick to death of the all the re-development, particularly it being billed as better access.  I can't see that having a dining terrace does anything to promote access and they should tell it like it is - more restaurant facilities.  I appreciate that undertaking major renovations whilst maintaining a full programme is extremely challenging, but the ROH has looked a mess for so long now, its dispiriting.  The Champagne Hall has lost its magic due to so much boarding up and the closure of the Ampitheatre Restaurant/Bar and Terrace is, IMHO, a step too far.  I eat there from time to time and when I can afford it and although it may not be in the first flush of youth, it was still a comfortable environment in which to enjoy a meal.  I cannot see that it needed a complete re-design and, most particularly, does this really have to be done whilst so many other parts of the House have building work going on?

 

I wish they had not committed themselves to so many ambitious plans at the same time and had focused more on making what they already had work better.  I presume the new outdoor area will be open to everybody rather than limited to patrons of the theatre, in which case the limited amounts of extra revenue this may generate will surely not cover the cost?  Additionally, with the Ampitheatre Restaurant being shut for such an incredibly long time, patrons will find other places to eat and may not return, plus the existing staff who are very good, will be lost.

 

All in all, I'm disappointed and fed-up with all the 'bear with us' notices that festoon everything.  ROH chose to incur this amount of disruption.

[Lizbie1]

36 minutes ago, Bruce Wall said:

Just a quick question:  The prices on the first, say, 10 seats of Upper Slips AA or BB - Have they ever before been at a different tariff than the other seats in the Upper Slips??  Given what they are [Due to leg length I really can't sit there without coming away feeling as if I need to see a chiropractor] they appear to be quite pricey now. 

 

I know one person who sits there religiously at a vast number of ROH performances - both ballet and opera.  I wonder now if they will attend with anything like the same frequency.  This is - I think - a considerable climb in rates.  I may, of course, be wrong.

 

Grateful for your kind advice.  Much thanks. 

 

I can't be certain of prices going back more than a couple of years ago, but you're right, they're normally the same price as most of the other Upper Slips tickets.

 

I was going to make more than one trip to Swan Lake but I doubt I shall now. While I can afford the uplift (though not readily - my opera and ballet budget is very strictly managed, and I employ every trick in the book to see as much as I do), I'm very unhappy with how this has been sneaked in under the guise of "improvements" and "slight" variations, and that the worst of the price increases will be borne by those who can least afford them.

[Lizbie1]

2 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

Thing is, for the vast, vast majority of people, a trip to the ballet (and it's more likely to be Swan Lake than anything else) is a one-off occasion.

 

While I agree with your general point, in my experience you're more likely to be sitting next to a regular than not in Amphi B-E sides and Upper Slips front row, and these are as far as I can discern the areas with the steepest hikes. (I always chat to the unfortunate next to me!)

[Sim]

1 hour ago, Lizbie1 said:

 the worst of the price increases will be borne by those who can least afford them.

As is the case with food, transport, etc.   I hope the ROH will reconsider its SL ticketing strategy once they have recouped its costs, which is what I assume this is all about (hefty sponsorship notwithstanding).  

[zxDaveM]

3 hours ago, Sim said:

   I hope the ROH will reconsider its SL ticketing strategy once they have recouped its costs, which is what I assume this is all about (hefty sponsorship notwithstanding).  

 

I doubt it - where Swan Lake prices lead, so R&J, Sleeping Beauty, Nutcracker et al, will follow

 

[Fonty]

5 hours ago, penelopesimpson said:

 

I presume the new outdoor area will be open to everybody rather than limited to patrons of the theatre, in which case the limited amounts of extra revenue this may generate will surely not cover the cost?  Additionally, with the Ampitheatre Restaurant being shut for such an incredibly long time, patrons will find other places to eat and may not return, plus the existing staff who are very good, will be lost.

 

Every time I go, there seem to be more and more tables set up for food consumption, and fewer and fewer places where I can just sit and read the programme quietly.  Are they really planning to open up areas that will be available to everyone, rather than theatre patrons?  How is that going to work?  They obviously can't have people wandering in when there is a performance on, so presumably it will be limited to days when there is no performance?  

[MargaretN7]

The National Theatre has parts open to all, performance or no performance. I'm assuming it could be like that. (Do we need a separate thread for this, it's not exactly Swan Lake.)

Edited January 6, 2018 by MargaretN7

[penelopesimpson]

2 hours ago, Fonty said:

 

Every time I go, there seem to be more and more tables set up for food consumption, and fewer and fewer places where I can just sit and read the programme quietly.  Are they really planning to open up areas that will be available to everyone, rather than theatre patrons?  How is that going to work?  They obviously can't have people wandering in when there is a performance on, so presumably it will be limited to days when there is no performance?  

You are right, Fonty.  I went to Cavalleria the Friday before Christmas and I counted precisely four tables where you could sit with a drink without eating.  The closure of the Ampitheatre area will put even more pressure on the Hall - I don't think this has been properly thought through.  You can't stand at the Bar because of people trying to get served and if you stand anywhere else, people can't get through.  Very hard on the elderly who need to sit down.

 

Yes, the National does allow non patrons to enjoy its facilities but the space is vast compared to ROH, ditto the Barbican.

Edited January 6, 2018 by penelopesimpson

[Sharon]

10 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

Thing is, for the vast, vast majority of people, a trip to the ballet (and it's more likely to be Swan Lake than anything else) is a one-off occasion.

If it wasn't so expensive a lot more people may attend. I definitely would get to London a lot more it the theatre prices weren't so high. I'm too old with knee problems to consider standing, or sitting way back....

[zxDaveM]

On 06/01/2018 at 00:23, Bluebird said:

 

The increase for amphitheatre B-E sides is even greater. Seats which have been priced at £16 will now cost £29. That's an increase of almost 45%!

 

pedantry alert - that's actually an increase of 81% (increase of £13 over £16 original, x100)

[Bluebird]

49 minutes ago, zxDaveM said:

 

pedantry alert - that's actually an increase of 81% (increase of £13 over £16 original, x100)

 

Apologies. That’s what comes of doing calculations at bedtime ( in my current time zone). 

 

By the way, one thing which hasn’t been mentioned is the fact that those B-E side amphitheatre seats have a restricted view. From some of those seats, especially the ones in row B, this restriction can be quite significant.

 

If one clicks on one of these seats, the following information comes up (my highlighting):

E-36

Amphitheatre, view obstructed by tier ledge, steep / narrow stairs, high view point

 

The adjacent seat which, for other productions, is normally in the next price range, brings up the following:

E-37

Amphitheatre, steep / narrow stairs, high view point

 

i.e. no mention of a view restriction

 

The usual price reflects the view restriction from the side amphitheatre seats.  The new price clearly takes no account of it.

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Bluebird

[RHowarth]

14 hours ago, MargaretN7 said:

The National Theatre has parts open to all, performance or no performance. I'm assuming it could be like that. (Do we need a separate thread for this, it's not exactly Swan Lake.)

https://www.thestage.co.uk/opinion/2017/lyn-gardner-publicly-funded-theatres-time-occupy/

 

Not Swan Lake related, but there was an interesting debate recently in the wider theatre world as a result of this article in The Stage.

[penelopesimpson]

2 hours ago, RHowarth said:

https://www.thestage.co.uk/opinion/2017/lyn-gardner-publicly-funded-theatres-time-occupy/

 

Not Swan Lake related, but there was an interesting debate recently in the wider theatre world as a result of this article in The Stage.

That article makes me squirm. The ‘everything must be available to everyone’ attitude is as juvenile as it is asinine.

 

Many buildings are publicly funded so where would we draw the line? Shall we encourage birthday parties in the Chamber at the House of Commons or maybe a children’s playgroup in the National Gallery? How about setting up an artisan workshops in Buckingham Palace or a giant picnic whilst the Olympics are on?  Some of the buildings The Stage has in mind may have some public financing but mainly they are kept alive by people like me devoting a great deal of their disposable income to supporting an Art form they love.  We deserve that every effort is made, at performance time, to make the area conducive to maximum enjoyment.  

[Beryl H]

On ‎06‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 13:24, MargaretN7 said:

The National Theatre has parts open to all, performance or no performance. I'm assuming it could be like that. (Do we need a separate thread for this, it's not exactly Swan Lake.)

 

I presume the ROH is trying to copy the National Theatre in opening the theatre all day, whether that encourages people to buy tickets for the evening I very much doubt, especially at the ROH prices, I like to wander around the National Theatre in the afternoon sometimes to look at the free exhibitions, at the shop, and just sit and relax, but never think to buy a ticket unless already planned

[Fonty]

I often go to the National Theatre during the day.  However, this is mainly because it provides an excellent meeting point, because of its proximity to Waterloo Station.  Many of my friends live outside London, and come in to that station, so it makes perfect sense to meet there, have a coffee, and then go on to wherever we are going.  They often have free concerts at lunchtime as well. 

 

The Opera House is very different, both in terms of location and space.  It would be great if they started doing some form of free entertainment at lunchtimes, but where would they do it?  I just can't picture how that many people would be able to come in, sit down, and enjoy them.  And the food on offer is very expensive for what it is.  

 

And yes, perhaps this should be on a separate thread.  

 

 

[alison]

On 1/5/2018 at 21:28, Lizbie1 said:

Suffice it to say though that the cheaper seats are far fewer in number than previously (I haven't counted but possibly by as much as half or even more).

That is shocking - and opportunistic.  There are only about 3 dozen of those "cheap" seats in the first place (and only about half a dozen I can actually sit in), having been reduced drastically during the previous rejig of amphi seating prices (from what I thought was a fair situation) maybe a decade ago now.  I wonder where it will end?  Oh well, I shall be standing or nothing - let me know how the performances go, won't you?

 

On 1/6/2018 at 00:01, bridiem said:

So it looks as if the tickets which have been £25 for full-lengths will be £29 for Swan Lake.

 

Now, that I would deem reasonable.  This most certainly isn't.

 

On 1/6/2018 at 00:23, Bluebird said:

 

The increase for amphitheatre B-E sides is even greater. Seats which have been priced at £16 will now cost £29.

 

10 hours ago, Bluebird said:

By the way, one thing which hasn’t been mentioned is the fact that those B-E side amphitheatre seats have a restricted view. From some of those seats, especially the ones in row B, this restriction can be quite significant.[...]

 

The usual price reflects the view restriction from the side amphitheatre seats.  The new price clearly takes no account of it.

 

 

I guess you've never sat in the seats on the end of row H, have you, Bluebird?  If you sit back in those seats, you have a viewing restriction of over 50% of the stage - and they are expecting to nearly double the price on those tickets?  Disgraceful.

[Lizbie1]

10 hours ago, Bluebird said:

 

By the way, one thing which hasn’t been mentioned is the fact that those B-E side amphitheatre seats have a restricted view. From some of those seats, especially the ones in row B, this restriction can be quite significant.

 

The usual price reflects the view restriction from the side amphitheatre seats.  The new price clearly takes no account of it.

 

 

Completely agree, and you're often at the mercy of whoever's in the front row.

 

These seats now look quite pricey for the view afforded - I wonder if whoever decided to reclassify them has sat there in "real life" conditions.

[alison]

Almost certainly not, or they would never have entertained the thought.  I suppose even if we start a boycott someone else will still pay through the nose for them

[Beryl H]

I wonder if there's a printing error, there are so many £29 amphi seats, the same price to sit in the centre block from rows P-S and at the very ends of the rows doesn't make sense. 

[penelopesimpson]

On 1/7/2018 at 15:00, Beryl H said:

 

I presume the ROH is trying to copy the National Theatre in opening the theatre all day, whether that encourages people to buy tickets for the evening I very much doubt, especially at the ROH prices, I like to wander around the National Theatre in the afternoon sometimes to look at the free exhibitions, at the shop, and just sit and relax, but never think to buy a ticket unless already planned

Your post made me wonder if there is, indeed a 'problem' with selling tickets.  I can't remember the last time I saw any empty seats, either for ballet or opera.  Is ROH not playing to full houses more or less the whole time?  Which begs the question why all these extra facilities are needed - is it just for the convenience of the current holder of the catering franchise?

[Shya100]

36 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said:

Your post made me wonder if there is, indeed a 'problem' with selling tickets.  I can't remember the last time I saw any empty seats, either for ballet or opera.  Is ROH not playing to full houses more or less the whole time?  Which begs the question why all these extra facilities are needed - is it just for the convenience of the current holder of the catering franchise?

 

For something that may be considered niche and sitting over 2000. ROH does very well indeed. Hardly an empty seat. Ever. However it is an expensive art form to go to and to run. Having said that being more open - you will be able to go up to viewing deck - may be part of the public funding. Open up to visitors, be more approachable etc.

[Lizbie1]

On 08/01/2018 at 22:14, Shya100 said:

 

For something that may be considered niche and sitting over 2000. ROH does very well indeed. Hardly an empty seat. Ever. However it is an expensive art form to go to and to run. Having said that being more open - you will be able to go up to viewing deck - may be part of the public funding. Open up to visitors, be more approachable etc.

 

On 08/01/2018 at 21:35, penelopesimpson said:

Your post made me wonder if there is, indeed a 'problem' with selling tickets.  I can't remember the last time I saw any empty seats, either for ballet or opera.  Is ROH not playing to full houses more or less the whole time?  Which begs the question why all these extra facilities are needed - is it just for the convenience of the current holder of the catering franchise?

 

Off topic, and I don't doubt they'll sell out for Swan Lake, but Rupert Christiansen's review of Salome today has an interesting final paragraph on the subject: he suggests they may have had to paper the house. I think I've heard that the ROH is a lot cannier and more discreet about doing this than certain other companies.

[bangorballetboy]

3 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

 

Off topic, and I don't doubt they'll sell out for Swan Lake, but Rupert Christiansen's review of Salome today has an interesting final paragraph on the subject: he suggests they may have had to paper the house. I think I've heard that the ROH is a lot cannier and more discreet about doing this than certain other companies.

 

And Christiansen has been pretty panned for saying so (his reason was he saw a number of critics at the first night that he doesn't usually see there).  

 

Salome is pretty well sold (over 90% and amphi is sold out for every show) and no sign of any ticket offers so I very much doubt the house will be papered any more than the usual house seats.