"Filming" ballet

[thewinelake]

Just wondering about recording ballet shows. There are a few options.

 

If recording a ballet performance, what's the best angle (vertically) to shoot from?

Traditionally I've always done it from near the back of the hall, but sometimes one has the options of balconies, etc.

Would it be the same as where the best seats are, or does a long lens mean that one can do better by being further back and higher?

 

Or how about a (secondary) camera mounted vertically above the stage in the lighting gantry? That might result in more clarity to the geometry of choreography (although it could also show up errors!).

 

The other thing, of course, is what combination of full stage view and close-ups do people like? I find flicking between camera angles very distracting, but just a fixed view of the whole stage from the back is dull - how does one get the balance right?

[alison]

In the middle, slightly elevated ?

 

Surely it's going to depend on what sort of ballet it is: if there are loads of people on stage you don't want to be straight in front because the bodies at the front will block those further back, so you might want a more aerial view.  Just don't keep switching points of view just because you can!

 

Have a look at the cinema broadcasts threads for more feedback.

[Geoff]

8 hours ago, alison said:

In the middle, slightly elevated ?

 

Joke of the week Alison, thank you for giving me a laugh on this cold morning! 

[bangorballetboy]

Not wanting to be too much of a spoilsport, but it might have been even funnier if it were: 

 

in the middle, somewhat elevated

 

[thewinelake]

I had to Google that one, but applause merited!

[alison]

On 01/12/2017 at 10:39, bangorballetboy said:

Not wanting to be too much of a spoilsport, but it might have been even funnier if it were: 

 

in the middle, somewhat elevated

 

 

???

[thewinelake]

 

 

[thewinelake]

Well, I did record a kind of ballet show the other day in Cambridge.

 

I don't know how many of you know West Road Concert Hall, but it's not really designed for ballet - for example there are no "wings" and the way it was done for this event was more as an orchestral concert with some ballet with the first set of pieces (Nutcracker) and no stage.

 

I wasn't really able to liaise in much detail with the organisers to do anything proper, but did put a pair of cameras (one of which was new) in a somewhat elevated position next to the lighting desk at the back. That worked quite well, except the lack of stage meant that the audience heads obscured a lot of the feet! So I had another camera with me, and decided to sit on the front row at the side - and that was OK in terms of seeing everything, although at times the dancers got too close to me.

 

In the event, I had a few technical issues with cameras mysteriously cutting out (I think this may be down to SDCard write speed being too low?) and the white balance was a bit inconsistent (and I can't blame the lighting, which was quite bland). However, one thing that emerged was that one can get some quite useful still photos from 4K footage, which with a bit of judicious post-processing can look reasonably attractive. 

 

[Colman]

It depends what your aims are.

 

When I'm recording school shows I stick a camera on a massive tripod (I rent a Manfrotto 161) at the back of the hall, behind the audience, which puts the camera well above the raised stage and mostly above the heads of audience members. A step ladder is required for access. This gives me a front-and-centre-and-slighly-elevated view which is good for documenting the dance - which is my aim here. 

 

Many cameras that aren't sold as video cameras restrict recording times to a certain length, for reasons to do with file size on cards and possibly to do with complicated import duty rules in some markets. Explanations vary, but you should experiment with the settings you're using to check when they stop - at full resolution my one stops after 21 minutes I think.

 

Ideally I'd have a second camera with a nice zoom on it somewhere closer to the stage to pick out solos and the like, though in my case I'm pretty much publishing on Facebook  so a modern camera gives me lots of cropping space. If I was documenting something important I'd like a camera above the stage. 

[thewinelake]

Yes, the old EU import duty limit. Interestingly on some such cameras (Panasonic anyway) you can apparently get around the limit by switching to NTSC mode (the same restrictions don't apply in USA).

I've traditionally been a PAL 25/50 fps kinda guy, but this might send me into the land of 30/60.

I'd love to get a taller tripod (but they get very expensive, so I've sometimes used a lighting stand instead!). I do find the wifi connectivity of panasonics useful in such circumstances, but it seems a touch flakey.

[thewinelake]

 

 

BTW, DD was not at all keen on the footage shot from stage level - but I don't quite understand why - I quite liked it (apart from the unavoidable jerkiness). Maybe someone here can explain!

Some samples: From stage level From the back (in the middle(ish) somewhat elevated)

Ideally, one would do a mixture.

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by thewinelake

[LinMM]

I could see the dancers really well but maybe your DD just didn't like the heads of the audience in front of the footage even though they didn't get in the way at all of seeing what the dancers were doing!! There were no close ups of the dancers ....was that the problem?  

[thewinelake]

I don't know! But it was the "stage level" one that she doesn't like - and that's where the audience don't get in the way...

 

Edit: I asked her again and it's a bit silly really - apparently you can see the mistakes more clearly with that view, and also there are times when you can't see them all... Sorry to have wasted everyone's time, but I guess I'm still curious about how one should approach a blended approach - mostly from the back with a bit from the side or what? As I said, the constraints in place for this performance were unusual, and I did miss out on a potentially good angle from the front of the balcony.

Edited December 5, 2017 by thewinelake

[Ian Macmillan]

Winelake: I was rather surprised to see the West Road Concert Hall figure here and I've never seen so much unused space there for a performance.  I'm there on a number of occasions each year with the Cambridge Phil chorus when, with a rather larger orchestra plus a 90-100 strong chorus,  space is at a premium.  I suspect you may be right that the best angles for filming may be found from the balconies on either side of the fairly steeply-raked centre seating.

[thewinelake]

Yes - I did film a little of the piano concerto from up there 

[thewinelake]

Well, I've made a Composite multi camera version which I hope isn't too distracting in terms of being self-indulgent editing. A bit of digital zoom applied, and had to include some snow (easier than doing the real theatre stuff!) . Any feedback (preferably constructive!) welcome - If anyone can be bothered to watch, that is!