Is there a DVD of Cranko's "Onegin" anywhere?

[John Mallinson]

Sounds very dodgy. Hold your nose and walk away.

[Saodan]

I discovered a similar site a few years ago (it might even have been the same one) that sold recordings of Royal Ballet cinema performances. It looked dodgy so I contacted Opus Arte who confirmed they were bootlegged and had them removed. I would steer well clear of that site and report it if you know who the relevant parties might be.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Saodan

[SwissBalletFan]

Apologies if the link I posted leads to a bootlegged or problem site.

 

I am fine with whatever action the Forum mods prefer to take with the post to protect the members of the forum.

[Angela]

Just to clear this up once again: all three Cranko story ballets - Onegin, Romeo and Taming - were recorded for German Television in den 1970s, all with Marcia Haydée. There were reruns in German television until the 1990s, but no videos or DVDs of these recordings were published. If you find DVDs of them, these are TV recordings made from video cassettes, but not officially released DVDs. I can't remember reruns of the ballets in a time where DVD recorders were available. It's not that German television did not want to show them, the Cranko Estate did not allow it.

[Fonty]

The behaviour of the Cranko Estate never ceases to amaze me. 

[toursenlair]

1 hour ago, Fonty said:

The behaviour of the Cranko Estate never ceases to amaze me. 

 

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Putting a ballet performance on DVD is extraordinarily complicated because of the rights issues involved (not just the choreography, but the designs, the dancers etc.). Back in the day when the Haydee recordings were made the home video market didn't really exist, so rights would have been negotiated for TV broadcast only. Everything would have to be renegotiated for a home video release. Meantime cinema technology has improved dramatically so there may be a desire to record a performance with good picture quality rather than releasing one with poorer picture quality. All this to say, putting a filmed performance from an earlier time out as a DVD is more complicated than you probably think, and the Cranko Estate should not be dismissed as "baddies" in this. After all, they DO own the rights to Onegin and so they have the right to do with it as they please.

[assoluta]

20 hours ago, toursenlair said:

Meantime cinema technology has improved dramatically so there may be a desire to record a performance with good picture quality rather than releasing one with poorer picture quality. All this to say, putting a filmed performance from an earlier time out as a DVD is more complicated than you probably think, and the Cranko Estate should not be dismissed as "baddies" in this. After all, they DO own the rights to Onegin and so they have the right to do with it as they please.

 

I don't agree with the message of any of the above three sentences. Your "arguments" for not releasing those old recordings don't make much sense to me. In most cases, all of this boils down to somebody making choice between willingness to do something, or an inertia. In the end, we all end up with VERY FEW ballet recordings available, in spite of the fact that MANY were made, and all of us, ballet lovers, ballet students, ballet artists, choreographers LOSE.

[Lizbie1]

36 minutes ago, assoluta said:

 

I don't agree with the message of any of the above three sentences. Your "arguments" for not releasing those old recordings don't make much sense to me. In most cases, all of this boils down to somebody making choice between willingness to do something, or an inertia. In the end, we all end up with VERY FEW ballet recordings available, in spite of the fact that MANY were made, and all of us, ballet lovers, ballet students, ballet artists, choreographers LOSE.

 

But, barring grants or similar funding, releasing a DVD has to make commercial sense, surely?

[alison]

Well, certainly it's clear that certain HD performances have been released on DVD whereas earlier non-HD but otherwise superior performances haven't been.

[MAB]

CD's of old recordings of classic performances are often marketed as being 're-mastered', does a similar technique exist to enhance old videos?

[Beryl H]

I copied the Canadian version from TV onto VHS tape at the time, rusty old aerial, mono, analogue, dreadful picture and sound, and then copied it to DVD, and finally now if I play it back through a Blu-Ray I think it does look better, so there must be proper technical ways.

[alison]

9 hours ago, MAB said:

CD's of old recordings of classic performances are often marketed as being 're-mastered', does a similar technique exist to enhance old videos?

 

Certainly does.  You should see what they've done to the original Star Trek episodes

[Jan McNulty]

I first saw Onegin at the London Coliseum on 26 May 1984.  It was the performance that converted me to watching ballet and I have never forgotten it.  It was years later when I found the programme and realised who I had seen - Marcia Haydee and Richard Cragun!!  No wonder I was converted.

[loveclassics]

On 29/11/2017 at 14:33, toursenlair said:

 

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Putting a ballet performance on DVD is extraordinarily complicated because of the rights issues involved (not just the choreography, but the designs, the dancers etc.). Back in the day when the Haydee recordings were made the home video market didn't really exist, so rights would have been negotiated for TV broadcast only. Everything would have to be renegotiated for a home video release. Meantime cinema technology has improved dramatically so there may be a desire to record a performance with good picture quality rather than releasing one with poorer picture quality. All this to say, putting a filmed performance from an earlier time out as a DVD is more complicated than you probably think, and the Cranko Estate should not be dismissed as "baddies" in this. After all, they DO own the rights to Onegin and so they have the right to do with it as they please.

I suspect that if there really are any 'baddies' then the Musicians Union may well be the cause of problems.  Trying to get permission for a commercial release for which their members provided the live music is, according to what I've read, a total nightmare.  These days recorded rights are part of standard contracts but for earlier recordings permission has to be gained from every single person who performed and that includes the members of the orchestra.  I remember Darcey Bussell being asked why there were not more recordings of her performances and she said that the union requirements had made it impossible to release any of the RB's early recordings (and there are many of them) of her performances for commercial use.

 

Linda

[alison]

But Prince of the Pagodas and Winter Dreams were released commercially ...

[ChMeBa]

The German TV station ZDF has a copy of the performance by Marcia Haydee and Heinz Claus, filmed way back in the 70's (I think). I've contacted them and they sent me a copy for 45 Euros..

Also (as indicated in the many replies in the Forum) the performance by Alicia Amatrian and Friedemann Vogel was filmed and, as far as I know, the film company is looking for a sponsor to bear the cost of production of a dvd. Still looking.

[David]

1 hour ago, ChMeBa said:

 

Also (as indicated in the many replies in the Forum) the performance by Alicia Amatrian and Friedemann Vogel was filmed and, as far as I know, the film company is looking for a sponsor to bear the cost of production of a dvd. Still looking.

 

Good to know. Thank you.

[Jan McNulty]

Hello ChMeBa and welcome to the Forum!  Thanks for the information.

[Rachelm]

On 24/01/2019 at 20:49, Don Q Fan said:

The Stuttgart Onegin is available online until 28 January as it was shown on German ARTE at Christmas in case anyone wants to see it.

https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/080523-000-A/onegin/

That's brilliant- thank you!

[Dawnstar]

On 24/01/2019 at 20:49, Don Q Fan said:

The Stuttgart Onegin is available online until 28 January as it was shown on German ARTE at Christmas in case anyone wants to see it.

https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/080523-000-A/onegin/

 

I've just watched this - just in time! I've never seen the ballet before but I've seen half a dozen productions of the opera so it's very interesting to see how the ballet differs. I didn't think the music was as good as that of the opera. It's nice to see some of the same dancers as in the Romeo and Juliet and lucky Germany to have had 2 ballets on TV over Christmas!

[RuthE]

15 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

I didn't think the music was as good as that of the opera.

 

I always find I get an earworm of the B section of the Polonaise from the opera leading into the A section of the one from the ballet...

 

(I bought the DVD of this a few weeks ago but have yet to watch it.)

[Stevie]

if you are making comparisons for ballet then the music score for Onegin is so much better than that of Tatiana, that you can only contrast them.Auerbach music for Tatiana.

[alison]

18 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

 

I've just watched this - just in time! I've never seen the ballet before but I've seen half a dozen productions of the opera so it's very interesting to see how the ballet differs. I didn't think the music was as good as that of the opera. It's nice to see some of the same dancers as in the Romeo and Juliet and lucky Germany to have had 2 ballets on TV over Christmas!

 

I managed to finish it off after midnight tonight, too!  I don't know whether it was just me, but I found there was a disconnect between the dance and the music somehow.  Felt I should have been more thrilled by it, or something.

 

BTW, we have a separate discussion thread on possible Onegin DVDs here:

 

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, alison said:

 

I managed to finish it off after midnight tonight, too!  I don't know whether it was just me, but I found there was a disconnect between the dance and the music somehow.  Felt I should have been more thrilled by it, or something.

 

I felt that at times the music wasn't dramatic enough for the choreography and the emotions that the dancers were conveying.

[Anna C]

Onegin is still working today - I expect it will work until midnight tonight. 

[ChMeBa]

Now that my excitement over the new Onegin dvd after upteen barren years has subsided, I thought that I could jot down my impression.

I’ll not pretend to be objective, being an unashamed fan of Friedemann Vogel and Elisa Badenes. Olga was the perfect role for latter, with her soubrette personality; brimming with life in the earlier scenes and dancing with a hitherto unknown enjoyment in the flirt with the man about town, effortless dancing that made us forget technique.

The same cannot be said of her Lensky, David Moore. His Act I solo/pdd I find lacking in exuberance, with feeble leaps and arabesques. Seemed to be struggling with a stiff back (as an aside: also seen in big names like Carlos Acosta as Albrecht in the Giselle dvd with Osipova). To his credit he acted well and with commitment and was, all in all, a convincing Lensky with his fresh-faced looks.  Dance-wise he  improved after the less-than- perfect start to give a moving solo under the moon. Or maybe he just has the hard luck to be in the same company with  the definitive Lensky, Friedemann Vogel, so comparisions are bound to arise.

The supporting characters enjoyed themselves, dancing or acting their roles to the hilt, whether it be Marcia Haydee as the bumbling, indulgent nurse, the corps showing scandalised faces at the open breach of etiquette at the ball, the joie de vivre in the diagonal jetes, ……… though here the cameraman unfortunately zoomed in at the 2nd diagonal, thus spoiling the whole impression of boundless energy.

Onegin stands or falls with the 2 main protaganists and in this Alicia Amatriain and Friedemann Vogel did not let the company down. Alicia was Tatiana to her finger tips, in awe of her new love, an expressive upper body and so absorbed in her role that she seemed to have aged 10 years in the space of the last pdd, when she banned Onegin from her life.

I contend that there are 2 types of Onegins: The darker characters, haughty from the start, whom we love to hate. And those who are actually normal characters driven to mischief, first by boredom with the rustics and then by sheer exasperation at the wretched girl, who refused to just disappear from his life after the rejection. And Friedemann Vogel’s Onegin is of the latter category. I’ve seen performances when the air between him and Tatiana practically crackled with tension. Whilst not quite the case here, still, Amatriain/Vogel are see-worthy anytime. Thanks to camera close-ups, the play of eyebrows, eyes and mouth were vivdly captured, culminating in a heart-rending moment after the dual, when Onegin realised the enormity of what he’d done. The dancing, fluid as usual with almost feminine grace of the arms and with total immersion in the character. And the contrast between the Mirror pdd and final one was marvellously highlighted by both: the airy abandonment of the former, with her twirled in the air like a feather and the heavy, weighted-down despair at the end.

The Staatsorchester played Tchaikowsky with spirit; bonus was a heart-warming scene at the curtain-calls when Marcia Haydee, the original Tatiana, got a well-deserved round of affectionate applause.

I’m really pleased I got the dvd and hope it’ll give me pleasure for years to come. Coming Friday, 1st March, I’ll be heading for Munich for Shklyarov as Onegin (I’ve seen him before) and Lauretta Summerscales as Olga (1st time for me). Looking forward to that.

[ChMeBa]

On 27/11/2017 at 18:25, now voyager said:

  I deeply regret never having seen Vogel's Lensky , as the video of his first act variation stuns me everytime I watch it.

Where can I find the video now? I saw it in YouTube some time ago, but it appears to have been taken off now. A crying shame, as it's one I'd like to see over and over again.

[Lisa O`Brien]

On 01/12/2017 at 19:38, Jan McNulty said:

I first saw Onegin at the London Coliseum on 26 May 1984.  It was the performance that converted me to watching ballet and I have never forgotten it.  It was years later when I found the programme and realised who I had seen - Marcia Haydee and Richard Cragun!!  No wonder I was converted.

This must have been the year I saw it too. LFB at the Palace Theatre, Manchester. My French teacher bought tickets for us both as she knew I danced. Interestingly, she had no idea until I told her during the interval of the origins of Ballet and didn't even know the steps were in French ! Sadly have no idea who was dancing that night. A few years later my mum threw out all my old Ballet programmes ( along with my Ballet books, dolls, teddy bears and practically everything else I had from my childhood). Parents, eh? Who'd have them?!

Edited March 20, 2019 by Lisa O`Brien

[annamk]

On 27/11/2017 at 16:40, Angela said:

 

Stuttgart Ballet has done Onegin more than 600 times, they should know how to dance it - the roles and portraits were passed on from the original cast, Marcia Haydée still comes here often to work with the dancers on her former roles. Everybody who learns Onegin has seen it at least 20, 30 times before, dancing in the corps or watching from the wings. They saw the great performances of their predecessors, saw different interpretations and learned from ballet masters who know everything about the steps and their motivation.

Vogel was superb, Badenes was superb, I'll keep my opinion about Amatriain to myself, but there are lots of people who admire her in the role. Alas, you're right, there were some (few) better performances at Stuttgart in the past - Sue Jin Kang and Jiri Jelinek for example, but compared to many other companies I saw, Stuttgart still has so many small details you don't see anywhere else. I never was a fan ob Kobborg's Onegin, by the way - Adam Cooper couldn't dance it technically, but he blew me away, I saw things like never before and never again. Wow, he was great.

 

I've finally watched this online and gosh it is absolutely superb  you can tell that this ballet is part of the company's DNA. Not only the characterisations that are so good. It's a dream to see all the tricky partnering executed so masterfully, (seamless mirror and final pdd) rather than a series of individual steps and lifts, all without breaking sweat !  Really have to try to see Vogel live in this. 

[Angela]

1 hour ago, annamk said:

 

 It's a dream to see all the tricky partnering executed so masterfully,

 

That's what I thought when I saw Osipova/Hallberg in Munich last week: passionate, intelligent portraits from both, great dancing and great solos (can't remember when I saw such a good Tatiana solo in act II!) - but so little flow in the pdds. Which is absolutely not their fault, you only get it from experience, when you dance the roles together many, many times. This is a ballet where you should keep the couples together all the time, it helps the interpretation.

Great to hear that you like it, Anna!

[Bruce Wall]

Oh, Angela - I wish I'd known you were there it would have been lovely to meet.

 

I agree with what you say entirely.  Osipova's Act II solo was indeed ravishing and I liked her too in the Gemin PDD where she was I thought gloriously partnered by Catazaro - one of the NYCB disgraced.  That said the Hallberg/Osipova PDDs had too much - as you suggest - of a 'dropped in' feel.  I so hope IF the RB does do Oneign next season - only a few more weeks until we find out - I very much hope that Osipova is partnered with an established RB principal.  Last time it was with Matthew Golding who I thought was a fine Oneign and together they were very much a fabric of the whole aside the revelation that was the Naghdi/Ball combination as Olga/Lensky.  After seeing the BSB production I very much hope that that the RB might NOT witness a 'fly in' visit by Mr. Hallberg.  IF they MUST have a guest - and surely - except in the case of extreme injury as has been the case in the past - that should be ENTIRELY unnecessary - I would love to see the Canadian principal with the Stuttgart Ballet Jason Reilly return.  He was - if memory serves - supreme in the role aside the stunning Cojocaru.  

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Bruce Wall

[capybara]

Oh, please, not another guest for Onegin here as it would deprive an RB company dancer of the opportunity and do so quite unnecessarily.

[Sim]

Although the temptation to see Jason Reilly in the role again is hard to resist....as is the temptation to see Friedemann Vogel dance it!