taxi4ballet Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I have just been reading a review (under the Dance Links tab - Royal Ballet and Company Wayne McGregor) in which the reviewer refers to the male dancers as 'men' and the female dancers as 'girls'. They are not girls, they are women. Is it just me, or do other people find this somewhat annoying too? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legseleven Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Yes! I couldn't agree more. This is very common, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 And not only in dance, either. I've spotted it several times in other things such as tennis and probably gymnastics. Come to think of it, probably every other sport women participate in, too. Not that I'm not guilty of doing it myself at times too, of course 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowblythe Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I heard the Women's Rugby Squad referred to as girls the other day. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 in sport its common to refer to teammates as 'the boys' in mens' competitions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 7 hours ago, taxi4ballet said: I have just been reading a review (under the Dance Links tab - Royal Ballet and Company Wayne McGregor) in which the reviewer refers to the male dancers as 'men' and the female dancers as 'girls'. They are not girls, they are women. Is it just me, or do other people find this somewhat annoying too? incredibly common to mix this in situations where it's not appropriate or necessary to ... part of the systemic biases that are there and which many people claim aren't a problem usually becasue they are on the powerful side of the equation or are sufferign a form of stockholm syndrome ... ladies and gentlemen , men and women , boys and girls , choose one pairing and stick to it; Unless you are talking about where one component of the pairing is an adult and the other a child. if your whole class / gorup are adults it;s just a matter of idiom if you make reference to the 'boy' work and the 'girl ' work ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 hour ago, zxDaveM said: in sport its common to refer to teammates as 'the boys' in mens' competitions however the phraseology is not as loaded as it with the referenceto adult women as girls , and it;s rare to hear reference to boys and women in the same breathe , unless it's a comparison of performance ... i.e. in certain sports the elite women or elite paraathletes perofroance / scores are in line with the top 'boys' age group ( i.e. the 16 -18s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 15 hours ago, mph said: ladies and gentlemen , men and women , boys and girls , choose one pairing and stick to it; Unless you are talking about where one component of the pairing is an adult and the other a child. I agree, this makes sense, and would soon stop the females being referred to in a way that suggests they are a lot younger than the males. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowblythe Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 At the all-girl school where my husband teaches, they have been banned from referring to the students as "girls" or "ladies." Apparently it is to do with the LGBTIQ issues; some of them may be considering gender re-alignment. Shame, I have always found "ladies" a very workable way of getting the attention of a group of young females - I always worked on the principal if it worked for my favourite ballet teacher it would work for me. It has sufficient novelty value to make them stop and it is entirely non judgemental. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 5 hours ago, meadowblythe said: At the all-girl school where my husband teaches, they have been banned from referring to the students as "girls" or "ladies." What do they call them then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowblythe Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Students. Year xxxx. The point is if you are talking to a group of students, you shouldn't identify them by gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 23 hours ago, meadowblythe said: At the all-girl school where my husband teaches, they have been banned from referring to the students as "girls" or "ladies." Apparently it is to do with the LGBTIQ issues; some of them may be considering gender re-alignment. Out of curiosity, if a student at an all-girls school follows through on the gender-realignment, do they have to leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 On 31/08/2017 at 15:36, meadowblythe said: At the all-girl school where my husband teaches, they have been banned from referring to the students as "girls" or "ladies." Apparently it is to do with the LGBTIQ issues; some of them may be considering gender re-alignment. Oh good lord! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melody Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I remember, years ago, there was some criticism of the use of "boys" to refer to male members of ballet companies regardless of their age. Apparently that seems to have been sorted, but the female equivalent still needs to be worked on. As for not referring to students as "girls" or "ladies" in an all-girls' school - that sounds a bit idiotic. There may be students considering gender realignment surgery (although, is it really that common these days?), but while they're in the process of considering it, they're still girls and there shouldn't be a problem referring to them as such. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I guess you could just say "right folks time up finish the sentence you're on!" Interestigly have been referred to as "guys" in ballet class before now!! Didn't bother me ....though most of us were "ladies" but I think it has sort of become the new word for " all of you lot" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 On 31/08/2017 at 15:36, meadowblythe said: At the all-girl school where my husband teaches, they have been banned from referring to the students as "girls" or "ladies." Apparently it is to do with the LGBTIQ issues; some of them may be considering gender re-alignment. Oh good heavens! This is ridiculous. Have we really come to the point where we cannot refer to someone by gender? Or indeed, to ban it? Sorry, this is like a red rag to a bull for me. I went through all the uproar at University, where the militant PC brigade brutally and publicly insulted anyone who dared to use any terms that implied gender. Hence the insistence on the word Chairperson, which still grates on me. I already find it stupid that the Oscars decided that the word Actress was demeaning in some way, although I have no idea how. So now they have awards for Best Male Actor and Best Female Actor. How long before they are not allowed to use the words Male and Female? "Best Actor with a Penis. Best Actor without a Penis. Best Actor who has neither. Best Actor who can't decide whether or not they want one......" Still, I suppose it increases the number of awards available. Oh, and while I am ranting. What do the letters I and Q stand for in LGBTIQ stand for? Anyone care to enlighten me, in case I get arrested for using the incorrect term while addressing someone? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 40 minutes ago, Fonty said: Oh good heavens! This is ridiculous. Have we really come to the point where we cannot refer to someone by gender? Or indeed, to ban it? Sorry, this is like a red rag to a bull for me. I went through all the uproar at University, where the militant PC brigade brutally and publicly insulted anyone who dared to use any terms that implied gender. Hence the insistence on the word Chairperson, which still grates on me. I already find it stupid that the Oscars decided that the word Actress was demeaning in some way, although I have no idea how. So now they have awards for Best Male Actor and Best Female Actor. How long before they are not allowed to use the words Male and Female? "Best Actor with a Penis. Best Actor without a Penis. Best Actor who has neither. Best Actor who can't decide whether or not they want one......" Still, I suppose it increases the number of awards available. Oh, and while I am ranting. What do the letters I and Q stand for in LGBTIQ stand for? Anyone care to enlighten me, in case I get arrested for using the incorrect term while addressing someone? Can't help with "I" but the other day I discovered that the "Q" stands for Queer. I'm still scratching my head over that because I always thought it was a derogatory term for a male homosexual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowblythe Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 I must the question I have pondered (but would not suggest he asks!) is whether they will be asked to leave during/after the surgery, should any of them take that route. At what stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 1 hour ago, AnneMarriott said: Can't help with "I" but ... "Indescribable" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trog Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 I work in a sixth form college and we have to have training in this. LGBTIQ is Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex and Questioning. Intersex is somebody with characteristics of both sexes. As far as I understand it, Questioning is a Christian person who says they are something that their religion says is wrong. Missing however is Asexual. I questioned this in the last training session and I did not receive a suitable answer. Be prepared for more letters to be added to this - excluded are Gay & Lesbian Muslims and others. Where I work, if I'm address a group of female students, I say "girls" and for a group of male students, I say "boys". For a mixed group, I am very imaginative - "girls and boys". 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 surely asexuals wouldn't be bothered whichever way.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 17 minutes ago, trog said: I work in a sixth form college and we have to have training in this. LGBTIQ is Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex and Questioning. Intersex is somebody with characteristics of both sexes. As far as I understand it, Questioning is a Christian person who says they are something that their religion says is wrong. Missing however is Asexual. I questioned this in the last training session and I did not receive a suitable answer. Be prepared for more letters to be added to this - excluded are Gay & Lesbian Muslims and others. Where I work, if I'm address a group of female students, I say "girls" and for a group of male students, I say "boys". For a mixed group, I am very imaginative - "girls and boys". Thank goodness it's "Questioning" and not "Queer"! I obviously misread - how embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Actually, I looked it up, and it did give the Q as Queer. As in "I am one of the LGBT group, but I don't care to have a specific label, as I identify with all of them" Where is that facepalm smilie when I need it? I would like to make it quite plain that I have every sympathy for those who may have real gender problems. It must be a terrible thing to have to live with. I just wonder how many of the population of Britain actually fall into that category? I have many gay and lesbian friends who are quite bemused by this sudden lumping together of all these groups, as none of them have any issues about their gender at all. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancemom2 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 LGBTQIA Definitions and short explanation of why these terms are being used from US organization, NOW (National Organization for Women): http://now.org/blog/now-updates-acronym-lgbtqia/ Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Queer Intersex Asexual A bit of a memory test as well as a tongue twister. Perhaps if they reordered, we could come up with something easy to say and remember like RADAR or SCUBA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 So it WAS Queer after all! I suppose it's one of those things when, "if I'm calling myself that it's quite OK, but if you call me that it's not OK". It's all very confusing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melody Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 At this rate we'll have the whole alphabet in the acronym. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Melody said: At this rate we'll have the whole alphabet in the acronym. I'm going to be pedantic here and mention that it's not an acronym. An acronym is an abbreviation of words that itself is pronounced as a word (like NASA or SCUBA). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 In certain TV programmes (Location; Escape to....; A Place in ..... for example), a same sex couple are frequently and repetitively referred to as "the boys" or "the girls". I have often wondered whether the participants are comfortable with this when they watch the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 7 hours ago, capybara said: In certain TV programmes (Location; Escape to....; A Place in ..... for example), a same sex couple are frequently and repetitively referred to as "the boys" or "the girls". I have often wondered whether the participants are comfortable with this when they watch the show. I know what you mean - although you hear "girls' night out" or "one of the boys" used fairly frequently, so it probably isn't much of an issue that way. It is much more irritating when it is used in a professional/work context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 On 9/2/2017 at 14:26, dancemom2 said: LGBTQIA Definitions and short explanation of why these terms are being used from US organization, NOW (National Organization for Women): http://now.org/blog/now-updates-acronym-lgbtqia/ Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Queer Intersex Asexual A bit of a memory test as well as a tongue twister. Perhaps if they reordered, we could come up with something easy to say and remember like RADAR or SCUBA... UK Use tends to place Q as questioning interestingly enough there is debate at times aobut moving to GRSM or GRSD as the umbrella terms ( gender, relationship, sexuality minorities / gender,relationship, sexuality diverse ) - although this starts fights as it could also include cis gender hetereosexuals from the Poly and Kink communities ... longer versions than LGBTQIA or LGBTQ+ tend to be used for somewhat satirical purposes. wi the regard to use of language in schools etc. there are various figures floating around , often depending on definitions as well that put gender none conformity any where between 0.5 % to couple of % of the population and the figures for notbeing heterosexual and monogamous are all over the place, often dependiong on whether it;s a 'have you ever' figure ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 9 hours ago, mph said: interestingly enough there is debate at times aobut moving to GRSM or GRSD as the umbrella terms ( gender, relationship, sexuality minorities / gender,relationship, sexuality diverse ) - although this starts fights as it could also include cis gender hetereosexuals from the Poly and Kink communities ... longer versions than LGBTQIA or LGBTQ+ tend to be used for somewhat satirical purposes. My IQ isn't up to following any of this. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 35 minutes ago, MAB said: My IQ isn't up to following any of this. IQ UQ he, she or it Qs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 The press has been full of stuff about John Lewis, who have "introduced new non-gender specific John Lewis stitched labels and combined 'Girls & Boys' swing tags to clothing for John Lewis own label collections in 2016." If they wanted to be non-gender specific, why didn't the label simply say Children's? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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