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Royal Ballet School SS

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I would be more annoyed at that than at a straight application fee, Dancing unicorn. I think YBSS charged a hefty deposit in this way? It did make us reconsider DD applying there because, as you say, summer holiday plans can and do change.

Edited by Legseleven

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Have to say that I am cynical about it - quite a lottery - £25 a ticket and if you win the pleasure of paying several hundred pounds for a weeks ballet summer school. I am sure it will be a lovely experience wirh fantastic teaching and great on the CV but it is quite an expense.

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Agreed that as a state funded institution paying for an application (rejection/ waitlist) every year, to just glance at a few photos and put onto a pile, our funds should be reimbursed if unsuccessful? This Royal system needs to be carefully audited IMO, as another poster says earlier that most acceptance decisions are made usually by the same person???

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POB charges for summer application and no, they don't deduct from the final bill ;)

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Have to say that I am cynical about it - quite a lottery - £25 a ticket and if you win the pleasure of paying several hundred pounds for a weeks ballet summer school. I am sure it will be a lovely experience wirh fantastic teaching and great on the CV but it is quite an expense.

 

 

But the point is that it's in NO WAY a lottery. There is immense skill & knowledge required to select the groups of students so that, as others have said, the classes are of children with the requisite ability. Do you not want people who've worked all their lives in a pretty underpaid profession to be paid properly?

 

Would your thoughts might e different if your child had received an acceptance? Would THAT be a lottery? I doubt it - it would be a recognition of their level of ability for the summer school.

 

After all, no-one is forcing you to send in an application ...

 

Let's stop down grading the real skills, knowledge, and qualifications of arts and teaching professionals! 

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to just glance at a few photos and put onto a pile, our funds should be reimbursed if unsuccessful?

 

 

This is seems a bit like sour grapes, which I'm sure you don't intend it to. But it's disrespectful towards the years of skill & experience required. If you think so little of the staff who select by "just glancing" at a photograph, why would you want to send your child there? I'm sure that's not what you really think ... (well, I hope not!)

Edited by Kate_N
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This has become a huge money making operation, which I feel is very unfair on those poor students and parents that apply year after year, only to get that faint glimmer of hope of "Waiting list" which appears to mean little or nothing.

If said person is making all the decisions how much easier, fairer and less expensive (for all involved) would it be if there was an extra SS tick box on the WL, US, MA, SA, JA  audition forms. As many of SS applicants are either already associates or auditioning to become associates and the same person is at all these auditions why can't SS also be part of the audition equation. It would also only be sensible to have a list of associate SS applicants and speak to the relevant associate teachers and get their opinion, as to wether their students would benefit from a week or two at SS (would hope that, this was a discussion that was happening anyway).There would then be far fewer photos and application forms to sift through and whoever is making the decisions at photo level would have more time to make  informed decisions. Only a thought ! 

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Just for info: there is/was a huge JA stamped on the application forms as these were handed out in JA classes! Don't know how it works now that application on line!

Edited by Dancing unicorn
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Well it appears that several people have spent a considerable amount of time working out how they think the selection system could be improved for the Summer School.

 

While they are interesting to read, I do hope that all these suggestions have been sent to the Royal Ballet School for their consideration.

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But the point is that it's in NO WAY a lottery. There is immense skill & knowledge required to select the groups of students so that, as others have said, the classes are of children with the requisite ability. Do you not want people who've worked all their lives in a pretty underpaid profession to be paid properly?

 

Would your thoughts might e different if your child had received an acceptance? Would THAT be a lottery? I doubt it - it would be a recognition of their level of ability for the summer school.

 

After all, no-one is forcing you to send in an application ...

 

Let's stop down grading the real skills, knowledge, and qualifications of arts and teaching professionals!

Katy-N photos do not show ability and skill they show body type primarily, limb length and strength of turnout at most. If they wanted to judge on ability they'd ask for videos as POB and Masters of Ballet require.

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But the point is that it's in NO WAY a lottery. There is immense skill & knowledge required to select the groups of students so that, as others have said, the classes are of children with the requisite ability. Do you not want people who've worked all their lives in a pretty underpaid profession to be paid properly?

 

Would your thoughts might e different if your child had received an acceptance? Would THAT be a lottery? I doubt it - it would be a recognition of their level of ability for the summer school.

 

After all, no-one is forcing you to send in an application ...

 

Let's stop down grading the real skills, knowledge, and qualifications of arts and teaching professionals!

Katy-N photos do not show ability and skill they show body type primarily, limb length and strength of turnout at most. If they wanted to judge on ability they'd ask for videos as POB and Masters of Ballet require.

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The point surely is, that if you apply for a selective highly competitive course, the majority of applicants are going to be disappointed, irrespective of the assessment tools used. Earlier in the thread it was stated 2694 applications for 632 spaces, so that's over 2000 dc with a no, even by my rubbish maths. Its just the way things are. The other selective ballet summer schools also have to turn people away, although they are possibly not so oversubscribed as RBS. Anyway its very character building if you plan to audition for a place in full time training. You will be lucky indeed if you don't get at least one 'no' then.

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If you don't believe that the RBS is properly able to select for its summer school from photos and an application form - which has, as far as I am aware, always been the case - and don't believe that those reports that the summer school students have been grouped with those of similar ability and technique are true, then of course you can choose not to apply.

 

If you do choose to apply for a summer school then you are choosing to accept its application process and to pay any application fee/deposit required. And as Kate_N said, I suspect that if your child was accepted into the summer school then you would have no complaints about the application process at all. That is human nature and very understandable.

Edited by Legseleven
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Katy-N photos do not show ability and skill they show body type primarily, limb length and strength of turnout at most. If they wanted to judge on ability they'd ask for videos as POB and Masters of Ballet require.

 

 

I'm not a ballet teacher at the RBS with years of teaching and probably a leading ballet career behind me, so I couldn't possibly judge how the RBS selects students for its Summer Schools.  

 

I think Mnemo is spot on with the maths - there are more than 4 times the number of applicants for available places. Elite ballet training is a tough world.

Edited by Kate_N

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We've never applied for RBS Summer School, so my comments are purely based on my opinion not sour grapes. My Dd will be doing POB SS and has always done ENBS SS in the past.

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At least there are more places than 5 years ago when my Ds got in. The summer school was only 2 one week courses or one 2 week for yr10/11 now the older end are at Covent Garden so more space at white lodge.x

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At least there are more places than 5 years ago when my Ds got in. The summer school was only 2 one week courses or one 2 week for yr10/11 now the older end are at Covent Garden so more space at white lodge.x

No extra space for boys though - in fact even less if the White Lodge boys are now expected to attend?

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Two things to note - the summer school is based on age not ability and RBS have a file on everyone who applies with the details of the programmes they have applied for/attended (fact based on speaking to them at one point so this is not supposition).

Edited by Newdancermum

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Katy-N photos do not show ability and skill they show body type primarily, limb length and strength of turnout at most. If they wanted to judge on ability they'd ask for videos as POB and Masters of Ballet require.

Yes...and that's why it's so difficult to get in. In my opinion,there are plenty of other SS and opportunities for those that are more talented in terms of their performance as opposed to being the right body type.

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The word 'elite' has cropped up in this thread. I get the impression that there are often, not always, elite / notable elements, in terms of training etc, already in place before a child has even set foot into RBS SS, which are included on application forms...

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My DD was a JA from year 4 and applied for WL summer school each year and never gain a place. Needless to say she was accepted into WL and spent 5 years there, gained the RBS Upper School SS award and is now dancing in one of the top companies.

 

What I'm trying to say is that SS acceptance is by no means an indication of future achievements. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with what they've achieved already upon application, body type (well maybe a little) or if your a JA. My DD is living proof of this.

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I think SS is sometimes used to make a decision on people as potential future full time students. I think that's why many JAs and other UK students rarely get places as they see JAS at other times anyway and they will have seen many UK applicants at auditions.

 

So they are very clinical in who they accept to SS.

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I am sure it is the same in sport, music etc. Training at the top establishments is elite by its very nature, how many little boys (or girls) will be selected for elite training in one of the premiership programmes? surely the odds are the same no matter what subject it is, these schools are looking for that elusive "it" factor that so few of us have.

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Sorry just to add we all know it's nigh on impossible to get in to one of these summer school but we all still try, if you don't want to pay the £25 admin fee to be told no .......don't apply it's as simple as that.

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DD is mid but I did application online so no advantage, as far as I'm aware no Mids stamped forms where given out.

I'm sure they ask if you are training within the Royal ballet ..... It was set out like a multiple choice question from Primary Steps to Adv Ass and you pick one.

Years ago I handed dds form in at Upper School when on a JA trip ..... I said to the member of staff at the time how on earth do they choose off a photo ...... She smiled and just said , she wasn't sure but they can just tell .... As simple as that !

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Haha Hairbelles - we've handed stuff in when on a visit with JA's at Covent Garden too!! Ahhh happy days (yrs 4 & 5) when everything was so happy and carefree! Then the stresses kicked in in yr 6 and haven't stopped since or wont either for us as Upper School auditions for us next year haha!!!!

Edited by Dancing unicorn
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