mumof6 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Hi. I thought I would start this new thread as this subject is one that I have wondered about for a while. I see lots of dance opportunities such as workshops, summer schools, associate schemes, the recent opportunity for children to become involved in a ballet etc that I would love for my daughter to do. Unfortunately they are often costly (on top of general dance tuition) so I am pretty much prevented from applying. I would have really loved for my daughter to have done a summer school this year but I just couldnt afford it. Private lessons are also costly. She is not my only child and family finances only go so far. I dont know much about dance but I think my daughter is probably a talented and good dancer but not exceptional or extremely talented. This means that she probably wouldnt get a scholarships etc if they were available .I suppose what I am trying to say is that, do any of you ever feel "priced out" of your child having the opportunity to reach their potential, improve etc. Most of the kids that I have seen get to good schools and get scholorships/funding are kids that already seem to have more classes, private lessons, summer schools etc so whilst I am not taking anything away from them in terms of talent or potential they do have a head start. When I win the lottery (I had better start buying tickets) amongst other things I am going to set up a fully funded school with fantastic training that takes the "good" kids rather that the exceptional ones. Maybe then our good little dancers could have the opportunity to become exceptional dancers. I would be interested in your thoughts, experience re the feeling of being "priced out" i would like to give you a little but of hope my eldest son goes to a dance academy doing a phd in dance, we dont have alot of money he is the eldest of 6 children, he is lucky his loan and grant cover his tuition and living. he only went to street dance twice a week from 10 to 16, then a community college, he has just passed his 1st year with highest marks you can get and just had his 1st proffesional job dancing in a bollywood movie in india at age 19. also my daughter 11 has just got a scholorship and she was only ever taught to dance by my son at home she only started a street dance class about 10 months ago, so there is still hope my kids have not suffered at all from being priced out, they have such passion and determinatation and i think that has shone through. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyofdance Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 i would like to give you a little but of hope my eldest son goes to a dance academy doing a phd in dance, we dont have alot of money he is the eldest of 6 children, he is lucky his loan and grant cover his tuition and living. he only went to street dance twice a week from 10 to 16, then a community college, he has just passed his 1st year with highest marks you can get and just had his 1st proffesional job dancing in a bollywood movie in india at age 19. also my daughter 11 has just got a scholorship and she was only ever taught to dance by my son at home she only started a street dance class about 10 months ago, so there is still hope my kids have not suffered at all from being priced out, they have such passion and determinatation and i think that has shone through. Wow, they sound like they are very talented. Well done to them. you must be very proud. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Mumof6 - what talented kids!! You must be so proud. .. Edited August 22, 2016 by sarahw 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Annaliesey how was the J Ellison SS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I was thinking about this and realised that DD (& us) have been very, very lucky! DD's initial classes & competitions were in Latin & Ballroom & not paid for as her Dad taught at the school in exchange She often did 'summer schools' at the local theatre group as I worked from home and it was a cheap form of childcare for her post 11 When she decided on Ballet, the teacher put her in the appropriate age class (for Grade 5) which we paid for but she was expected to attend as many of the other classes (Grades 1-4) as she could manage at no cost because "She had to learn the stuff" then after a year she was a helper so no fees just exams to pay for At the same time she started the CAT - full MDS When Jazz & Tap were added, the second class was at 60% the third at 50% (same uniform different shoes) She left the CAT & started a heavily subsidised 'associate-type' scheme £10 a week for 4.5hrs of class We paid in full for LSC associates - possibly one of the few things we paid for in 'full' along with some summer schools/workshops/taster days - Watkins, Tring, Hammond, Arts Ed Urdang & Millennium. Well actually it was birthday & Christmas money from everyone one we knew (DH & my birthday & Christmas money too) - done in just 2 years I think We saw shows using Tesco vouchers & Kids week (so virtually now cost) DH is exTrain driver so all our travel has been subsidised and we took porridge pots and sandwiches with us everywhere!! When she went to the prevoc - her 'university' saving (from my mum's savings and my Dad's loose change) paid for the course and our tax credits & child benefit paid for her accommodation/food/uniform & now she has fees paid and a bursary No way on the planet could we have afforded to pay for it all in full - no way!! But the way it happened? Serendipity I think 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 It's so lovely to hear how well our forum children are doing. We are all lucky to support each other. What suits one child/family doesn't always suit another family. brilliant to share experiences and opinions with advice at times. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Lisa you did very well didn't you to have the career you did? Broke the mould... I largely have Leonie Urdang to thank. Trafford Council awarded me a grant. The fees were I think £1,200 a term. [1984]. They gave me £600 a term. I got the letter with my award on the actual morning I was setting off to move to London. Was in floods of tears as it was nowhere near enough. My mum got on the phone to the council. The woman said it was up to the parents to pay the rest. What the hell with? My mum only had one lung thanks to TB when she was 21 but not one person advised her she was entitled to any disability money even though she could barely breathe. So of course she couldn't work. Me my mum and sister existed on her £36 a week Supplimentary Benefit as it was called. She was not given what she was entitled to for over 40 years. It still makes me angry thinking about it. But yes, both Miss Urdang and Stephanie Pope were well aware of our circumstances. I heard years later that Miss Urdang actually had students living with her as they couldn't afford the cost of accommodation. She really was an exceptional woman. I was very upset when I found out she had died. Edited August 22, 2016 by Lisa O`Brien 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Annaliesey how was the J Ellison SS? She enjoyed it popcorn chicken and chips in the diner! She really enjoyed the commercial more than anything I think and the whole thing had a really cheery atmosphere with clapping and whooping during select groups Least favourite was drama haha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Your mum was an exceptional woman Lisa x 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Your mum was an exceptional woman Lisa x Thank you Tulip. She had an incredibly difficult life. Poor health and two useless husbands !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Have you ever thought of writing a book Lisa? I love it when you share stories about your career and experiences. Your story is quite remarkable and you give such good common sense advice to us and our young dancers. I'd rather read about your career than that of quite a lot of famous dancers to be honest - you really should write it all down one day. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyofdance Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 Have you ever thought of writing a book Lisa? I love it when you share stories about your career and experiences. Your story is quite remarkable and you give such good common sense advice to us and our young dancers. I'd rather read about your career than that of quite a lot of famous dancers to be honest - you really should write it all down one day. I agree Pups Mum. It would make a great read and probably inspire a lot of young dancers. Re summer schools/classes. My DD had a wonderful day yesterday at drdance, workshops. She came home inspired (as well as hot and sweaty) and got straight on her ballet barre to practice her corrections. She also enjoyed the class with Nazene Danielle and is looking forward to the contemporary class today. She has gone off happy this morning for day two. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Could we keep actual feedback on summer schools in this thread please? http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/13058-summer-schools-2016-feedback/ Just makes it easier for people to find info in future. Thanks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straceydor Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Joy of Dance my dd also at Dr dance and loving it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Yesterday we had to pay for my daughters medical all the way to Hertfordshire, £425 plus petrol and premier inn. Next day into London £123 for her visa. All of this is before more point shoes and clothing some of which will be reimbursed. If we weren't able to financially able to do this, our daughter would have had to turn down this wonderful contract. Even when our dancers graduate, parents still need to financially pay until they can financially pay for themselves. Wish we had a money tree, fortunately the pay is excellent on the Royal Caribbean, tax free, and free board and food. She will be able to save for when she comes home to audition again. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Tulip your daughter is going to have the time of her life ???? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Yesterday we had to pay for my daughters medical all the way to Hertfordshire, £425 plus petrol and premier inn. Next day into London £123 for her visa. All of this is before more point shoes and clothing some of which will be reimbursed. If we weren't able to financially able to do this, our daughter would have had to turn down this wonderful contract. Even when our dancers graduate, parents still need to financially pay until they can financially pay for themselves. Wish we had a money tree, fortunately the pay is excellent on the Royal Caribbean, tax free, and free board and food. She will be able to save for when she comes home to audition again. Do they do pointe at Royal Caribbean Tulip? Or are the pointe shoes for class before your dd goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Thank you Mak, I am so excited for her and best of all in one of the shows the dancers are en point. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Anna the shoes are for the show but she intends to keep her training standards up, so will carry on doing point work inbetween rehursals. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 How fantastic! She's done brilliantly to get a contract with Royal Caribbean. Their shows are fabulous. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Thanks Anna, she will now be able to call herself a professional dancer, a badge of honour after all the years of hard work and determination it takes to get there. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyofdance Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 Yesterday we had to pay for my daughters medical all the way to Hertfordshire, £425 plus petrol and premier inn. Next day into London £123 for her visa. All of this is before more point shoes and clothing some of which will be reimbursed. If we weren't able to financially able to do this, our daughter would have had to turn down this wonderful contract. Even when our dancers graduate, parents still need to financially pay until they can financially pay for themselves. Wish we had a money tree, fortunately the pay is excellent on the Royal Caribbean, tax free, and free board and food. She will be able to save for when she comes home to audition again. Ouch re cost Tulip but so worth it by the sound of things. I had a friend who's daughter danced on a cruise ship and she managed to save over £30.000 to put toward a house. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I can't see her earning enough to save that much, be nice if she fed he he. I am seeing soooo many of our classical dancers from the top vocational schools now auditioning for cruise ships, a Royal Carribene being the main one, all I can think is that they are so well looked after and pay is good. My daughter still loves her ballet, but she doesn't want to dance pure classical anymore, that decision came about 10 months ago. So she still wants ballet, but with a mix. For me she has always been allowed to change her mind, regardless of how much money has been spent. Her work ethic and determination is admirable, she is also very realistic with her head firmly screwed on. Like I said earlier her dream since she was very little was to be the white cat in cats 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Is that Victoria? (The white cat in Cats). The favourite cat of DD1. I hope she achieves her dream and in the meantime Royal Caribbean is such a brilliant cruise line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 It is Victoria and thank you MAK, she will learn so much including other styles of dance that she hasn't really done such as commercial. I haven't actually been on the Royal Carribean yet, done P&O and Celebrity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I can't see her earning enough to save that much, be nice if she did he he. I am seeing soooo many of our classical dancers from the top vocational schools now auditioning for cruise ships, a Royal Carribene being the main one, all I can think is that they are so well looked after and pay is good. My daughter still loves her ballet, but she doesn't want to dance pure classical anymore, that decision came about 10 months ago. So she still wants ballet, but with a mix. For me she has always been allowed to change her mind, regardless of how much money has been spent. Her work ethic and determination is admirable, she is also very realistic with her head firmly screwed on. Like I said earlier her dream since she was very little was to be the white cat in cats 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Oops how did I do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyDance Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Thanks for starting this joyofdance. It's a very interesting read and has given me much food for thought. Here, it's not even so much being 'priced out', as being timed out too. My dd started dancing at a time when she really probably shouldn't have started - I was on long-term sick leave and money was tight. But, she begged and begged and after a year I enquired with a local ballet teacher. Concerned about future finances I asked whether this was going to get expensive and was re-assured that it wouldn't - that she wouldn't need a uniform to start with and only shoes and a leotard. All fine! Roll forward 4 years (two exams, extra classes in tap and modern, dance school performances, summer school, and an EYB audition later) and expenditure is through the roof! Fortunately, I'm back working which allows more money for all things dance related but unfortunately less time to do them in etc. We can only do what we can do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyofdance Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 Thanks for starting this joyofdance. It's a very interesting read and has given me much food for thought. Here, it's not even so much being 'priced out', as being timed out too. My dd started dancing at a time when she really probably shouldn't have started - I was on long-term sick leave and money was tight. But, she begged and begged and after a year I enquired with a local ballet teacher. Concerned about future finances I asked whether this was going to get expensive and was re-assured that it wouldn't - that she wouldn't need a uniform to start with and only shoes and a leotard. All fine! Roll forward 4 years (two exams, extra classes in tap and modern, dance school performances, summer school, and an EYB audition later) and expenditure is through the roof! Fortunately, I'm back working which allows more money for all things dance related but unfortunately less time to do them in etc. We can only do what we can do. So agree about the time thing as well. Quite a lot of classes start shortly after school finishes which is several hours before work finishes so its hard to make the time. It sometimes feels like you cant win. I have really enjoyed the contributions to this thread and have learnt lots from it. Plus I knew I wasnt alone in my thoughts but its always good to hear others views and experiences. Some of the advice has been invaluable. This is a great forum with some really nice people on it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cara in NZ Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I've really enjoyed reading this thread. Like many of you, we started out when DD was five, one half-hour ballet class a week. Eight years later, she has seven ballet and two Pilates classes a week, and we have dropped anything 'optional' so this is the minimum (ie for her RAD studio and Year 8 in 'Scholars' JA scheme). Sitting RAD Intermediate next week. We have had to add in weekly physio this term as her knees need strengthening – it costs more than private lessons! And she is getting braces on her teeth, which we will pay in fortnightly instalments for 18 months (don't know if you can get this on the NHS but in NZ it's all private and costs £4,000, gulp). Her tutus are all 'pre-loved' (eBay), and I am selling all her outgrown leos and costumes. She says she doesn't want to do any summer schools (ours are in January) as this year has been so full-on, plus she is doing a big Australasian competition next Easter. My other two are older and have left home, thankfully, but my husband is a nurse and I work part-time from home so it's not easy. I don't think there is any funding available for dance training here, sadly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 So agree about the time thing as well. Quite a lot of classes start shortly after school finishes which is several hours before work finishes so its hard to make the time. It sometimes feels like you cant win. I have really enjoyed the contributions to this thread and have learnt lots from it. Plus I knew I wasnt alone in my thoughts but its always good to hear others views and experiences. Some of the advice has been invaluable. This is a great forum with some really nice people on it.Oh well done you for making this point! I do understand why classes for younger dancers tend to be earlier in the evening, but it can give working parents logistical nightmares. To begin with it was just the odd class mid week, and the other parents were absolutely lovely about lift shares but as she got older it was more classes and then festivals, and rehearsals for festivals..and it always has to be mum doesn't it? I would get frantic emails from the dance school that they were running a last minute rehearsal that evening and in vain I would point out that I was stuck at Brussels airport sorry and would feel guilty about it and then frantically text everyone of my friends for help. It has honed my time management skills quite considerably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyofdance Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 Oh well done you for making this point! I do understand why classes for younger dancers tend to be earlier in the evening, but it can give working parents logistical nightmares. To begin with it was just the odd class mid week, and the other parents were absolutely lovely about lift shares but as she got older it was more classes and then festivals, and rehearsals for festivals..and it always has to be mum doesn't it? I would get frantic emails from the dance school that they were running a last minute rehearsal that evening and in vain I would point out that I was stuck at Brussels airport sorry and would feel guilty about it and then frantically text everyone of my friends for help. It has honed my time management skills quite considerably Not to mention using up all of your annual leave to attend festivals, rehearse for festivals, accom costs for festivals outside of your area, entry fees, private lessons for new dances that you didnt want your child to have in the first place etc. We dont do that anymore thank goodness. On the subject of festivals, I used to really resent having to pay high prices for costumes either second hand or new, that i didnt even get to choose. One time I and several other dance Mums paid over £50 per child for a group costume. The dance was performed twice and then the dance school scrapped the dance and we were left with a costume that we couldnt use. I loved watching my daughter dance in festivals but it started to take over our life and they were often horribly competative and created some really unpleasant behaviour from some of the children so we stopped doing them. It does make me chuckle, I often see facebook posts from various dance schools stating how supportive their children are with each other and with children from other dance schools etc. I was often at the festival that they were referring to and that was absolutely not the case. I saw more tears, tantrums, bullying and general horrible behaviour amongst the children and young people (and some teachers and parents) than I have ever seen in any other competative environment. I decided that as much as I love watching my daughter dance, I wasnt prepared to pay for her to be in such a horrible environment. My understanding is (correct me if I am wrong) that not doing festivals doesnt affect a good dancers chance of having a career in dance. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cara in NZ Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 (edited) joyofdance: Festivals/competitions are (I think) an added extra that no-one *needs* to do. For my (rather reserved) DD, in her 2 years of competing they have been good for giving her more opportunities to perform and learn about expression. But other DC don't need this and already understand what is required. I certainly don't think you need to do them for a possible dance career.We have had pretty good experiences at competitions here in NZ. As my DD doesn't play sport, I tell her that being in group dances is the closest she gets to playing a team sport Edited August 25, 2016 by Cara in NZ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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