DancingWellies

Well this has turned into a bit of a Me Too moment, clearly these issues are even more endemic than I thought and we knew it was bad. For so many people to share these negative experiences it's clearly the norm not the exception. For those of you commenting who do not have direct experience of the schools maybe you should consider that your opinions don't carry quite as much weight as those of us who have. I don't see many parents posting positive experiences here. Yes we were naive, there was so much invested in getting the place not on what would happen afterwards. Maybe if people had spoken out more historically we'd have been more prepared.

Which considering how few actually go into a classical ballet company is another major issue they need to get to grips with. Unfortunately it looks like the program is focussing on the body image issue, easy one to sell to people outside the ballet world I suppose but the well being issues go well beyond body shaming.

This quote from the BBC article stood out for me and is the nub of the issue.

I'd rather not say as it would make her fairly identifiable I think. It's a small world and she's made loads of contacts across the dance world in the UK, suffice to say we have direct experience of 2 schools, she has friends across most of those others and they do talk not to mention meet up from time in auditions, summer schools etc. It is a small world. Anyway I'm incredibly proud of her, she's come out of a system that nearly broke her, as a very strong person, many others didn't. I'd rather she'd got to where she is now through example, support and motivational training rather than battling the odds and system. The really sad thing is I don't think the teachers even realise how they impact the kids which is why I'd welcome the lid being blown off the whole thing. You would have thought Ballet West might have been the turning point but it wasn't. Id like to think Panorama might be the trigger but I don't hold out much hope. We have such great potential dancers in this country and fantastic grass roots schools. Even the facilities available in the vocational schools are excellent, we just don't have the right teaching mentality. It still seems to be you have to be so grateful you got accepted into a vocational school instead of the school realising how lucky they are to work with such talented kids and how big a responsibility it is for the school to get the best out of each of them.

I asked the same question this evening and got told emphatically it still happens, DD was at Elmhurst. Also continued into upper school, different school.

I haven't posted here in a long time, mainly due to the trauma of lower school. Daughter graduated from a different institution this year and whilst had a much more positive experience in upper school it still left a lot to be desired. I hope Panorama blows the lid off the outdated and down right destructive teaching styles of many of the schools. I hope they don't get the right of reply, one of the key problems is they don't see the issues resulting from their teaching approaches. They need shocking into realising significant change is needed. The evidence is all there, the drop out rates between year 7 & 12, the number who fail to gain a place at upper school despite 5 years of training from the same institution. The number that quit dance completely post graduation. There's always going to be some who don't make it through but it's not a small number. If it was me I'd be asking why so few of the kids we'd trained weren't up to the standard we wanted for upper school, that shows a fundamental failure of the teaching (or initial student selection). They are supposed to be elite training establishments but it seems to be a one size fits all approach, they are supposed to be working with the best dancers of their generation, a more motivational and personalised approach is appropriate. If kids don't make it through in large numbers it's got to be the teaching, not the kids. I have a horrible feeling the Panorama program will concentrate on the stereo typical weight shaming issues which are important but really only a symptom of the much bigger changes needed to resolve the current failings where it's all down to the student and never the fault of the teacher. The annoying thing is there are examples of great motivational teaching out there, from personal experience NYB do a great job of building up the dancers rather than pounding them into the ground.

This current year 11 is also quite small so even if they were all offered places I'd expect another 5 or 6 to join the year. As said above though not everyone will be staying on, they do assess out and not everyone wants to stay, others schools may offer a better fit for current Elmhurst pupils, as you would expect it's quite focused on classical ballet which might not be the best training for someone who wants to move into the wider world of dance.

I've just asked my DD about this, she was there yesterday as well in the middle. She didn't think it made much difference as the exercises were relatively straight forward, maybe it depends on how quickly someone is able to pick up the steps? Either way good luck to your DD.

Not sure many other than Royal formally asses out at the end of year 9 anymore. Elmhurst doesn't. It is possible to get a place but competition is still fierce. I think many schools allow people will audition for year group except maybe 11. Whether there are funded places will depend on space for boarding, number leaving, quality of people auditioning. It will vary year to year for each school.

This is so true, getting a yes at some point is just the start of the roller coaster. There's plenty more hurdles to overcome. I do remember at WL Finals they did make a point of saying think very carefully if you get a Yes, the Dance life and training is not for everyone. Like junedaner said we've had good days and bad, at least DD is still keen to dance.

It's a good scheme, doing CAT for a year got our DD into vocational school. Big commitment though in terms of time from the rest of the family.

And the whims of the artistic director. If the candidate has sparkle (undefinable) they may have a chance. Don't forget students from other vocational schools often audition for the year 8 to 11 places, some of them get in lots don't. WL is not easy to get into.

It's the acceptance letters for place you can spot before opening, big fat A4 for a yes, slim folded A4 for no.

Yep the dance world is not fair, even the schools seem to have favourite students who whilst often good are not always the best, who get the opporrunities, the photo shoots, the official Instagram posts. In the long run though those who gave to fight for every opportunity and survive come out stronger. I do think some of the favourites must find life very difficult when they move on to the next stage.

Yes, dd is there now, started in year 9. 6 or 7 of the original year 7s are left. Lots of movement in and out over the years. I think most if not all have left of their own volition rather than being assessed out, some have moved to other schools, some have left for health reasons, some have left the dance world. It will be interesting to see how many go on to sixth form, are offered places and accept them.

We went through iit three times to get into Elmhurst. Now doing it all again for upper schools.

I think there's around 10 people apply for every place, around 40 to 50 get to finals for a max of around 20 places (girls). Numbers in each year group vary, year 11 is only 12 girls, year 10 around 18. Year groups sem to be nearer 18 than 12 though gurther down the school.

If you hover outside watch out for the parking wardens and don't wait on the double yellows outside the building. Parking there is difficult and expensive at the best of times.

Elmhurst do the RAD exams, DD is currently doing advanced 1.

Remind him that the kids who get knockbacks have more experience and resilience than those that seemingly sail through. The ability to pick yourself and carry on is as important as the performance and technique. Our DD got finals for both WL & Elmhurst year 7, auditioned again in year 8 for Elmhurst and got to finals, still no place. Tried again in year 9 and got in. It's been hard but that work ethic has helped her catch up. It's also surprised me how high the drop out rate from year 7 entries has been so that's no guarantee of success either. It's not over until it's over or they give up.

From personal experience of a similar situation my advice is don't over think it, this is the world of ballet, not peer reviewed science. Speak to the teacher, sooner rather than later, it's their job to teach and support if improvement is needed. Don't forget you are also paying for this. It was one of the academic staff we connected with initially but with their help things went from very arms length to some much constructive critique and more personal attention which rapidly improved DDs dancing. Still got this years appraisal to get through so things might still come up. Year 7 its still very early days, plenty of time to improve, mature and progress. Engage with the school., they can feel very remote, judging and intimidating, I don't think this is intentionally in most cases but it will get in the way unless you make that first contact. Final thought, knockbacks can make the most resilient dancers of the future, it's not all about sparkle, dogged determination is also a vital skill to cultivate.

GAB dancer, our DD auditioned for years 7 & 8 and got to finals both times. Auditioned for the extra auditions for year 9 and got a place so it does happen. Personally I've been surprised by the drop out rate with people leaving dance, moving to other schools so there's potentially more places than you'd expect although it does vary depending on size of year group. Some years are in the high teens others nearer 12 (for the girls).

We were very lucky, DD was at a grammar school who couldn't have been more supportive. They seemed to support excellence of any type, a friend of DD was at a similar level ice skating and was also encouraged. The grammar school were fine with auditions etc. Contrast that with a local primary who refused permission for a pupil to miss school for an international martial arts competition, she'd attended the previous year so why did she need to go again? All depends on how small minded your school is.

It's taken me nearly 40 mins to do Elmhurst to the big roundabout near New Street in rush hour!

Yes Elmhurst flooded, doesn't sound good. Not sure yet if all the students will be back on Sunday.