joyofdance

My daughter didn't want to do A levels on leaving school. She had had enough of academia and at the time thought that she wanted to dance as a career. She did two years on a dance course and realised that she had lost her love of dance and the dance world generally, and didn't want to go in to the industry. On finishing the course she applied for uni and is now doing a degree that she loves and will hopefully give her a good career. I suppose my point is, let her follow her dream, it may or may not lead to a career in dance but I doubt she will regret it. My daughter doesn't regret her initial decision to go to dance college nor does she regret giving up dance for something she now realises that she is more passionate about. Things have a way of working out, especially at 16.

Oh I see. My daughter did them with her dance school support but on her own. She made some lovely friends at other dance schools and I met a few lovely parents who I am still friends with. I hope your daughter has a really lovely time.

I'm pretty sure that your dance school will get a programme before the comp. Ask the dance teacher. Are any of her dance teachers going with her for support?

My daughter did lots of different comps as an indep entry so was often the one competitor without dance school support. Mostly she made friends quickly and had positive experiences. The regionals and finals do tend to be a bit more competitive behind the scenes but nothing awful from our experience. My daughter experienced more not so nice competitive behaviour from her own dance school peers than she did from dancers from other schools so it very much depends on the schools performing so you never can tell what the atmosphere is going to be like. Hopefully your daughter will enjoy the experience and have a wonderful time.

Hi, well done to your daughter. They can be a great experience. Depending on the region the standard can be very good and they are very well organised. My daughter did all England regionals and finals from age 7 to 14 and enjoyed every minute of them. On the whole they are very similar in format to most dance competitions albeit a bit stricter. On the whole we found the adjudicators to be fair and professional and whilst they had high expectations they always gave constructive feedback and positive comments. I have heard some negatives from some regional competitions and not all of the theatres were lovely but luckily the ones we went to were a good experience.

It varies from dance school to school. One school my daughter danced with asked for a contribution of £30 towards costume hire for several dances and the venue was paid for via ticket sales I assume. Another asked for £15 and again charged for tickets to watch the show. I believe a small charge for costumes is the norm but happy to be corrected.

Great rant Peanut68 and I couldn't agree more. I watched an online college performance recently. There was a particular dance (a trio) and one of the dancers was quite heavy set (for a dancer) and not the typical desired body shape. Her artistry was amazing. I couldn't take my eyes off of her. She was one of those dancers who's movement and facial expressions captured the story beautifully. (She didn't put her leg over her head once or bend her spine in extreme contortions 🤣) I was totally captivated and moved and barely noticed the other two dancers. I couldn't help feeling though that the chances of her getting an industry role will be limited in the future. I sincerely hope that isn't the case but the cynic in me suspects it will be. I do hope in the future that there will be a big change in the dance world re this as dance for me is all about the artistry and expression.

Absolutely agree with all of this Beezie. One of the most frustrating aspects for my daughter is being aware of the fact that much of dance is about how you look and not about talent. She and her friends have often seen dancers chosen for certain roles/opportunities because they "have the look" above those with stronger technique and artistry. Up until puberty hit and her body started to change shape she had dreams of being a ballerina and was encouraged to focus on ballet with a view to going to vocational ballet school. Fortunately we didn't go down that route as I suspect had she gained a place she would have either been assessed out or possibly developed an eating disorder (as did a few of her peers) Whilst there are a few examples of dancers who don't fit the desired aesthetics being successful it is still very rare.

That is awful and truly shocking. Organisations like this should be held to account but I suspect given the many examples and failures to learn lessons that they are not.

That is all very true and insightful. I am sad mostly for selfish reasons as watching her dance brought me great joy but I also feel sad because I am so dissapointed that adults who claim to be intelligent professionals can behave this way and seemingly get away with it. Both myself and my daughter are made of strong stuff so we will always strive to turn negatives in to positives and come away stronger and happier 😁

For my daughter the issues didn't really start until about age 9 when she moved from a small village dance school to a more competitive "popular" school. Interestingly it was a lovely and well meaning dance teacher at the village school that suggested it as she saw potential in my daughter and didn't think that the one she taught at could offer her the standard of teaching she needed etc. The new school had a very good reputation and is known around the competition dance circuit and amongst some of the top dance schools in the UK. She loved it there and the standard of teaching was excellent. We were asked several times to allow her to join the competition team but initially resisted . The competition team and their parents had a bit of a reputation and there were often drama's and gossip and it all seemed a bit OTT so we were very reluctant. She desperately wanted to do comps and events so eventually we let her. Very soon we saw first hand why there were so many drama's and also witnessed the bullying from teachers and the culture that encouraged the children to behave in the same way. Fortunately we managed to stay out of it for quite a while but I regret not pulling her out sooner as the toxic nature of the school was by then obvious. It is important to stress that for quite a long time my daughter wasn't targeted however the things she witnessed had a big impact on her and in hindsight I realise that she became quite fearful. Also in all honesty I got sucked in to the "that is the way dance is" mentality for a while. I think I was partly to blame for her being targeted toward the end of her time there as I did challenge (politely) a few things around their teaching style (not aimed at my daughter but general concerns) Also to a certain extent I kept a tight reign and didn't let her be involved in everything all of the time or let her have ridiculously expensive private lessons. The dance school owner accused me of trying to sabotage my daughters future in dance 🤣 After a while I started to see my daughter being targeted and was told by others who had been there a lot longer than me that it was because I spoke out and to keep quiet or it could get worse. Of course I didn't keep quiet, and it did get worse. To cut a long story short, we moved her to another dance school (after being assured by the owner how nurturing they were and how they do not bully or tolerate bullying) and it was sadly the same. The last few years she has been at a school that are not perfect but equally not as bad as her previous schools but she has been part of various associates performance opportunities and and workshops and has seen how pervasive the bullying and intimidation tactics are across the board. Being in the competition/performing circuit had many benefits and she had some wonderful times and personal achievements but you get to know a lot of the dance schools and on the whole whatever they spout on SM about how wonderful they are and how dedicated and loyal their students are, it often isn't true. Most have very effectively taught their students (and parents) not to dare challenge and to show adoration and loyalty. I know of some that have gone as far as to instruct students and parents to write positive comments or posts. I also know of students and parents to this day that write gushing SM posts full of obsequious compliments when in reality they feel angry and dissolutioned but they do it to curry favour. (Not to mention the ridiculous practice of buying expensive gifts for the dance school owners) This may seem an extreme thing to say but at times I've felt like our dancing children and their parents are being groomed by narcissists and some children who have been on the worst end of it are trauma bonded and unable to walk away. In terms of my daughter, she loves to compete and perform but she doesn't have a "cut throat" nature so finds all of the jealousy, back biting and over inflated egos too difficult to handle. She has had a taste of the industry recently and said its pretty much more of the same. I think over the years she has been part of and witnessed the more negative side of dance and just wants out. Like others have said on this post some children will never see that side or have any awful experiences but for the ones that do it can cause a lot damage. Fortunately my daughter has always had other interests and is doing well academically so she feels confident (as much as you can be) that she has a bright future so I hope in time the damage that was done will be a distant memory.

It definitely is Peanut68. As I said before there is a part of me that is relieved that she is moving away from dance. I imagine that once I have stopped (secretly) grieving, I will hopefully be able to think about the positive experiences she has had and leave behind my anger about the negative ones. Thank you all, reading your responses has been a real help and being able to share my thoughts and feelings has been quite cathartic.

I have no experience but I imagine sport is similar. I do think my daughter has gained a lot of positives from her involvement but I do wonder sometimes at what cost. Fortunately I think she is getting out of it early enough to hopefully take the good bits forward and leave the negative experiences behind her. I was chatting to her this afternoon about it all and she does seem really resilient and is very excited about the future so that is good. I think I am suffering the affects of it all and the loss more than she is 🤣

Thank you for your insights. I too have often felt like the negative voice both on here and amongst dance Mum friends. I suppose in many ways I never really fitted in because I was always the one to speak up and challenge poor practice and toxic cultures. My daughters dance years were not purely in ballet but in several genres and she has been part of a couple of dance schools, associates etc that are highly competitive however the types of bullying and cultures are the same. I sometimes regret speaking out as it didn't do my daughter any favours in the long run but I couldn't sit back and let her or others be the brunt of some peoples over inflated egos and cruel streaks. Reading all of these responses has been really helpful as sometimes you can feel a bit alone with your worries, thoughts and feelings so its good to hear the positive experiences that young people are having since leaving the world of dance.

Thank you MrsMoo2. How amazing that you were able to turn something so awful in to something so wonderful. Its good to hear peoples experiences and perspectives. I agree a lot has changed over the years however I can't help feeling that whilst most teachers now are aware that physical punishment or assault as it should be called is not acceptable, those same personality types are still amongst us. Especially in the competitive industry which my daughter was/is part of. Their bullying tactics are much more subtle but nonetheless damaging. Thank goodness we have trained professionals like you who are able to help people recover. Whilst my daughter has had many unhappy times and awful experiences she was fortunate to also have had some fantastic times and personal achievements so maybe now is the right time for her to get out before anymore damage is done. Just writing this down and reading the reply's has made me feel much better and I'm starting to realise that my daughter is stronger and more sussed than perhaps I give her credit for.