RobR

Thanks James, and absolutely no need to be respectful, although I appreciate the courtesy, but as I hope I made clear, I’m not overly keen on opera but had thought I should try to see what others get from it and have seen a number of operas that I have enjoyed and two by Mozart, both of which I clearly misunderstood but which offended me, or my sensitivity. It’s possible that others in the audience, similarly unversed in the nuances of Mozart’s 18th century storylines will also have taken the ‘literal’ approach. I’m afraid I can’t see the relevance of the comparison with Onegin, and I am familiar with the ballet and, despite considering it further in the light of your comment, have never seen in it any behaviour that I would describe as mysogynistic. Still, I don’t imagine that we’re going to agree and, for the sake of other OF members (who’ve probably read enough of our views) and in a spirit of detente, perhaps we should leave it there.

I have to accept that my views on opera may well be naive and that I may have missed the subtleties to which you referred but the thrust of my poorly made point is a concern about the way, in the opera, the two poor heroines' emotions are manipulated for the sake of a bet. They are told that their beloved men have to go war. This is a 'humorous' ruse and the men go nowhere near a war. The women do not receive any message(s) from the beaux for whom they are pining. Nor, in accordance with the bet, do the two men feel the need to send any message. The two men (manipulated by the obnoxious rake) return to the presence of the two women. They are heavily disguised and, for the sake of the bet, are happy for the rake and his assistant to try to persuade each of the heroines to give succour (I assumed both physical and emotional) to the 'other' beau rather than their own. Each woman is bereft and very upset at what is happening yet their emotions are manipulated to cause each greater distress and the rake and the beaux seem entirely happy to pile indignity and stress onto the women they profess to love and cherish. When I saw it, my prevailing feeling was not what a comic caper the plot is, not that in betting against the rake the beaux are defending their loves but that this 'comic' plot displays no sympathy for the feelings of the manipulated women and is, accordingly, abusive and misogynistic. You are entirely right about the fact that I didn’t get the subtleties of the plot.

I can understand why this issue is being discussed but am perplexed why nothing is being discussed about The Magic Flute or Cosi Fan Tutti, both regularly and recently performed at the ROH. In the MF, the leader of the 'Freemasons', in encouraging the hero to forgo the heroine and join the brotherhood denigrates womankind as being intellectually inferior to men, a theme of the opera as I understood it, albeit unsuccessful. In CFT, an unpleasant old rake bets the two male lovers that their loves are fickle and if they accept the wager, which they do, and follow his instructions he (the rake) will show the true nature of the women (and by the rake's lights) and women in general as being flighty and incapable of being the paragons their swains assert. What then follows (in the name of 'comic' opera) are a series of bizarre and unpleasant deceptions intended to make the poor and put upon heroines believe that their lovers are sent to war, killed or injured or have taken poison or (with the lovers complicit in the deception and disguised as strangers) must be slept with (?) to be restored to health. Disregarding the music, which I appreciate many love, these misogynistic plots are far more in need of replacing than that of La Bayadere. [I should say that I’m not a fan of Mozart and have a very limited appreciation and understanding of opera but, if there’s talk about rewriting ballet then opera should IMO, get the same treatment]

I fully understand the ‘dressing up’ issue. The jeans I wear to the ROH are generally newer than those I wear to the National Theatre 🤪

Hi Ann, most companies understand that relations (and guardians) want to see their children perform, particularly when dancing a lead role. Perhaps your ward might speak to someone at ENBS, who can arrange for a ticket or two.

And very nice to see Katharina Nikelski back dancing

Me too! (The exclamation mark is for emphasis 😀)

I’ve always watched it on the same basis set out by @ellyb

I’m sorry but your post is too vague for anyone to give any meaningful advice. Assuming that your daughter attends a ballet school, and speaking as the parent of a daughter who did join a professional company, I strongly recommend that you discuss the options with your daughter’s teacher(s). If you want to send me a pm, I’m happy to respond but I’m not sure that any additional advice I could offer would be particularly useful.

Thanks for sharing the link Roberta 😀👍

Thanks @Blossom for such a lovely review. I agree with it all. A really enjoyable evening

Good explanation - stick with it 👍😉

Thanks for this, Peter. I’m rarely lost for words but this is one such occasion.

Well, if you start getting ads for shaving gear, beard trimmers and Y fronts, you’ll have to let me know 🤪