Anna C

Funnily enough, I was re-reading that very article this afternoon, and did a bit of Google-sleuthing to see if Sam Lee is still dancing. From his (public) LinkedIn profile, it looks as if he did complete all 5 years at White Lodge, but then went to an academic school to take A’Levels, and on to University to study engineering.

Thank you, capybara, that must have taken you a while to collate! I just had a look to see when Christopher Powney was appointed as Artistic Director of RBS, and it was 2014. So those Principals above who came up through White Lodge, into US (whether for 1, 2, or 3 years), and then into the company, would have been at RBS prior to 2014, presumably when the late Gailene Stock was still AD (or when Jay Jolley was interim AD)? I wonder if the number of White Lodge trained dancers making it into the graduate year at Upper School has changed since Mr Powney took over, and by how much?

That’s a good point, and I suppose the difference in motorsport is that there is a fixed time of either x laps or x hours raced, so the FIA knows that Formula 2 will only take a maximum of around 2 hours so can run in the morning. That said, Red Flag situations can and do happen, as do severe weather delays, meaning delayed starts or restarts for the F1 race. TV coverage doesn’t stop, it just continues as long as necessary (which the BBC is used to with Wimbledon anyway). Plus, with 3rd/5th set tiebreaks, we don’t have mammoth final sets that go on for hours (or even days) like Isner v Mahut, so if, on Finals Days at Wimbledon, women’s doubles finals started at 11am on Centre (with wheelchair singles starting at 11 on Court 1), I can’t see any way in which the Men’s singles would be prevented from starting at 2pm. Then the Men’s singles and all the associated presentations would be the last match on Centre.

Ladies doubles and mens doubles winners get £600,000 per pair, mixed doubles get £128,000 per pair, so definitely the poor relation to the able-bodied mens and ladies championships (winners get £2,350,000 each). Wheelchair singles winners get £60,000 each. £26,000 per couple for wheelchair doubles is a disgrace, especially when Hewett & Reid’s match had a relatively large in-person audience on Court No. 1. Speaking of audiences, I always think it’s a shame that the doubles final on Centre after the men’s final only has a tiny audience scattered around the court. Why isn’t the mens final the last match on Centre? It would be like holding a Formula 2 race at Silverstone *after* the F1 Grand Prix, when everyone’s gone home.

My bad, he is indeed.

For me, as an observer, it has been both fascinating, disheartening, and reassuring - the latter because, for various reasons, my daughter took another path - to keep an eye on my daughter’s very large peer group from Associates, summer and Easter schools, and a brief stint at full-time training, and to see how many are still dancing professionally (ie getting paid to perform). I think I’m correct in saying only 1 or 2 still are. Of the two girls in dd’s academic year group who were accepted into RBS Upper School in 6.1, neither of them made it into the graduate year. The problem for British trained girls is not just being accepted into White Lodge, it’s staying at White Lodge for the full 5 years, then getting a place at Upper School, but then lasting the whole 3 years at Upper School and graduating from RBS. It’s almost impossible, and if White Lodge is to remain a feeder school for RBS Upper School, then at some point, questions probably need to be answered about why more British *trained* - particularly WL and RBS 6.1 and 6.2 trained girls are suddenly not sufficiently well trained to graduate from 6.3. This isn’t a new problem of course, and staying the 3 year course, graduating, and getting a contract is difficult at any ballet school. Plus, Royal Ballet would not be one of the foremost companies in the world without global talent. Imagine the company without Nuñez, Kaneko, Choe, Muntagirov, Osipova, as well as Naghdi, Ball, Cuthbertson, Bracewell, Hayward and Campbell? I don’t give two hoots where a dancer was born; we are incredibly lucky that RB attracts such outstanding dancers from all over the world. But that’s a different issue to the problem of the disconnect between White Lodge, Upper School, and graduate year at RBS.

I’m hoping for another one today and will be rooting for Alcaraz. 🫢 In exciting finals news though, did anyone else watch Hewett & Reid’s wheelchair doubles final? Absolutely nailbiting match, clearly enjoyed immensely by the Court No. 1 crowd. The only downside was the prize money for the winners - £26,000 between them.

That sounds sensible, as the thread did veer off topic back on page 1. One of us will split the thread when we have a moment, so this thread can return to the subject of Royal Swedish Ballet.

Hi Justdance1, My only experience of Rambert School is a fantastic summer school my dd did there a few years back, but they have a very good reputation. I had a look on their website and the main difference seems to be that the Pre[pare] course seems to be for students aged 11-17 who have had less opportunity to dance ballet and Contemporary, but who have the potential to take their dance further. There are some scholarships/bursaries available too for households below a certain income. https://www.rambertschool.org.uk/courses/young-peoples-courses/prepare/ The Pre Vocational course is for more experienced students with at least 2 years ballet or contemporary training (sounds like both is preferable) who are aged between 14 and 20, so is more like a Mid - Senior Associates scheme for dancers hoping to apply for 16 or 18+ dance training. https://www.rambertschool.org.uk/courses/young-peoples-courses/pre-vocational-course/ Hope that helps a bit. 😊

And another:

This is one:

Hi Garnier and welcome from me too. I agree with HopelessMummy and Ddance; it depends on class length etc but overall that does sound like a lot at age 9. I’d definitely drop the Contemporary class, because back when dd started at Central Preps/Pre-Seniors, the 11 year olds in Prep 1 didn’t do Contemporary, they did “Creative dance” which is a precursor to Contemporary. That was on a Saturday and if I remember correctly, she wasn’t there longer than about 3 hours at that age. I did, and still do think that at 9, children should still be doing a range of hobbies (swimming, music, Brownies/Cubs etc.) and also allowing time for homework and just being a child. 😊

It is! It’s been 12 years since my beautiful Border Collie went to the Rainbow Bridge, and we loved and lost a Mini Schnauzer in between. This is our tiny rescue girl from the RSPCA - very traumatised when she came to us but getting better every day. I thought it was about time I updated my photo!

I’m sure it’s not. I was using her as an example to demonstrate the difference to Ondine.

If they didn’t only do comps, and were teaching proper syllabus and technique classes, working towards exams and so on, they wouldn’t be so “pushed for time”. As I said earlier, and as others have said, it doesn’t matter WHY the teacher is shouting AT the children - what matters is how it makes the children feel, and the message they take away and internalise. And let’s remember that these are children at a local dance school, not 17 year olds in full-time training in Russia.

Absolutely. There is a world of difference between raising your voice to be heard over a piano/musician in class and *shouting AT* children - especially little ones - to “make them good/better/win”. Think Brian Maloney taking morning class at Royal; calling out instructions and corrections to dancers in order to be heard, vs Abby Lee Miller screeching and bellowing at young girls so they win at the next comp. Not remotely the same. Like Taxi, I know what it’s like to have experience of the psychological - and physical - injury caused by dance training. We should not still be tolerating this treatment of our children in 2023.

“She has to shout at us to make us good enough” or words to that effect sounds to me like a teacher justifying bad, borderline abusive behaviour to young children. In which case, these 7 year olds are internalising the message that it’s their fault the teacher shouts. They are “making her do it” because they are not good enough and should be better. That does not sound like a nurturing, fun, enjoyable environment that will foster a lifelong love of dance.

Lovely. Thank you! 😊

As I said earlier in the thread, you might have to make the decision for her, as she’s so young and doesn’t have any experience of a different teaching style. After all, it’s not just the shouting. The way I look at things is “how many red flags is this situation throwing up?” How many issues am I prepared to tolerate before I draw the line? When my dd was an Associate, there was one particular teacher at one of the two schools whose methods I did not particularly like. She was very “hands on” physically, which isn’t a problem in itself, but on more than one occasion she was too “physical” and actually hurt my daughter, who was angry. We talked it through together and decided that as it was her last year there and all the other teachers, including her main ballet teacher, were wonderful, daughter decided against complaining but promised she would tell me immediately if anything else happened. (it didn’t). So that was one “red flag” but the only one, balanced out by lots more positives, and dd was 14 or 15 so could make the decision for herself. What you’ve been saying about your dd’s school raises a lot of red flags, not just one or two. There’s the shouting, the concentration on winning comps at the expense of proper teaching, technique, and exams, the constant demands for money, the messing around with the timetable, possibly unqualified or un-regulated teachers, the favouritism (although you will probably get that to some extent elsewhere), and the bullying. For me, that would be about 4 too many, and I would absolutely start looking around for another school, but that’s just me. There are times when I wish I had put my daughter’s learning style and welfare before loyalty (or fear of being accused of disloyalty), but hindsight is a wonderful thing. This is your life and your daughter. You know her best. What I would say is that until she’s old enough - and experienced enough - to decide for herself, you have to advocate for her. If you decide to stick with this school, do it because you think it’s best for her right now - not because you’re scared of possible fallout from the teacher or other parents. I’m quite sure other people have moved schools, and the teacher’s got over it.

Hello Relevé School of Ballet, and welcome. As you are a commercial enterprise, please could you add your business/contact details into your signature, as detailed here in the “Commerce” section of our Acceptable Use Policy? Many thanks!

Excellent news! Delighted for all those promoted. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Freed used to be brilliant and would customise shoes to suit, but that’s going back to when Beth Chivers was still the Manager. I don’t know if they still do that for “normal” customers. Since Beth left, several RB dancers who were Freed wearers have changed to Bloch, who have a huge variety of pointe shoes. I thought Bob Martin had retired, but I may be wrong. Dancia probably has the widest range of manufacturers - I wouldn’t recommend them for for first pointe shoes or even the first year or two en pointe, unless you are a teacher/ex dancer and can supervise the fitting. However, assuming your 16 yr old has been en pointe for some years and knows how well-fitting pointe shoes should feel, then you’ll be fine. When dd moved from Freed to Gaynor Minden, after the first few pairs she’d just go into Dancia and fit herself. I never had confidence in Capezio for pointe shoe fittings; staff seemed to know nothing about pointework, but it has been a long time since we were last in there.

Even a single is not done in ISTD syllabus until Grade 5/Seniors at Janet Cram. I just worry that these little girls are being taught moves that look flashy, but without any of the technical basics. I may be way off base here, but I’m getting Dance Moms/Dance Mums vibes from your dd’s current school. 😕

I was wondering that too. I do hope it was less stressful than my morning, booking accessible tickets for Muse!

Couldn’t have put it better myself. Even if @Anniedancemum meant jazz pirouettes, these don’t form part of the Janet Cram routines until Premier Class (so Grade 6/Inter Foundation/Intermediate level Modern). No pirouettes are done by Juniors (Grade 4) and only a single for Seniors (Grade 5). Ballet pirouettes are even harder. I would not expect any reputable school to be teaching doubles to 7 or 8 year olds! As Taxi says, there are huge chunks of technique being missed. That alone would be enough for me to change schools, let alone all the faffing around with the timetable. My husband was still working shifts with a lot of unplanned for overtime while dd still needed driving to and from her local dance school. The constant changes in timetable alone would have made life incredibly difficult for us - and you would be perfectly within your rights to blame that for your wanting to change schools.