Lisa O`Brien Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Just looked on Twitter and there are photos from The Guardian newspaper showing 6 and 7 year old boys and girls lining up to audition for New York`s School of American Ballet winter term. Some of the photos show youngsters in the audition ,their legs being stretched and lifted as high as they will go. I didn`t know the SAB took in children so young to train. If ,as we sometimes hear that the standard of American dancers is higher than our own, then why on earth don`t our vocational schools start training children from the age of 6 or 7 instead of waiting until they are 11? I`m talking about training them full time,not once a week at Associates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut68 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I do wonder now if ballet is deemed more of a sport than an art.....perhaps funding now should be from the sports budget than from culture & arts....I suspect there would be more funded places to train children vocationally then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singing4dancers Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 For the first four years SAB training is part time starting at 2 classes per week leading up to daily after school classes. Even their full time programme provides no academic provision, students have to homeschool online which wouldn't be possible in the UK with the different structure of our Gcse exams. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoriapage Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) As far as I know, for those who can afford it, some SAB students go to the Professional Children's School, which is very nearby and which is geared toward the education of performing children. It has a number of noted alumni. https://www.pcs-nyc.org/ "Professional Children's School provides achallenging academiceducation for youngpeople in grades 6-12pursuing extraordinarygoals. Current studentsinclude ballet & moderndancers, actors, athletes,singers and models." Edited April 19, 2015 by victoriapage 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singing4dancers Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 The OP was talking about 6-7 year olds. US 6th grade is around age 11, the age at which our vocational schools take in from. As SAB students are placed in levels not according to age it's diffucultvto day at what stage in their programme students would be here but daytime classes are required from their Intermeduate b level which seems to be the 6-7th year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoriapage Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) I understand; I was responding really to this - Actually I started 6th grade at age 10; it can depend on your birthday when you start schooling (and I'm talking about when dinosaurs ruled the earth in my case). Even their full time programme provides no academic provision, students have to homeschool online which wouldn't be possible in the UK with the different structure of our Gcse exams. Edited April 19, 2015 by victoriapage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singing4dancers Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I guess my point to the OP is that what SAB are offering their 6-10 year old students isn't vastly different to our system of Associate classes & that even there full time intensive training starts later. (& rightly so) I do find it interesting that they require all girls aged 11& above to take pointe shoes to the audition which seems rather young to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Just looked on Twitter and there are photos from The Guardian newspaper showing 6 and 7 year old boys and girls lining up to audition for New York`s School of American Ballet winter term. Some of the photos show youngsters in the audition ,their legs being stretched and lifted as high as they will go. I didn`t know the SAB took in children so young to train. If ,as we sometimes hear that the standard of American dancers is higher than our own, then why on earth don`t our vocational schools start training children from the age of 6 or 7 instead of waiting until they are 11? I`m talking about training them full time,not once a week at Associates. Even taking from age 11, the percentage of those who make it to professional level is quite low, largely due to the unpredictable nature or the way children's bodies and talent develop as well as the fact that some of them simply change their minds about dancing! By starting as young as 6 or 7, that percentage would be even lower. I do prefer the more flexible nature of training in the US (and other countries) though. I wish it was more like that in the UK but I don't think we'll be seeing a shift away from the grade/ syllabus system any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I agree with your comments on the more flexible nature of training. I personally feel my dd is about a year behind (having entered this crazy world as a once a week dancer approx 2-3 years behind.) However academically she definately needs to be with her age group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanprincess Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Could someone please post a link to the a Guardian article? Have looked on Twitter but can't find it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Here's the link: http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2015/apr/17/new-york-youngest-ballet-dancers-auditioning-in-pictures 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celb Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I don't think they are auditioning much earlier than here.My DD was 7 when she auditioned for and was accepted as an RBS Junior associate.She started classes just after turning 8 on average 3 classes per month during term time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 I don't think they are auditioning much earlier than here.My DD was 7 when she auditioned for and was accepted as an RBS Junior associate.She started classes just after turning 8 on average 3 classes per month during term time. But in the audition did they yank [pardon the pun] her leg up as high as it would go at such a young age as well?The photo reminded me of Soviet Russia.!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 As long as it's not hurting and they are warmed up is it a problem to yank the leg up? If the flexibility is required and in the long run if they haven't got it they're going to be disappointed I suppose it needs assessing just the same as musicality etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Some of them look jolly miserable don't they?!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoriapage Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Some of them are probably there because their mothers want little ballerinas and not because they love to dance! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaffa Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 There's an interesting video about the school, including clips about the audition process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqIQGmnj1iU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Some of them look jolly miserable don't they?!! I was thinking the same. And untidy. I know they are only little, but surely their parents could have sent them out with tidy hair? Obviously their potential isn't going to be influenced by their grooming, but I would have thought the parents would have wanted to create a good impression. The little ones auditioning for parts in our local dance school show today were all neatly attired, hair in buns or plaits and mostly wearing big smiles - not at all like these photos which I must confess left me rather cold. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Totally agree with you pups_mum! If I was in charge of the school, I would be most unhappy with that little lot being published. Also, I know it's a personal thing, but I hate to see little ones in tights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I do wonder now if ballet is deemed more of a sport than an art.....perhaps funding now should be from the sports budget than from culture & arts....I suspect there would be more funded places to train children vocationally then! I agree. I find it sad. I want to be moved to tears when I go to the ballet not watch a grinning trickster with no musicality or emotion do a million fouettes. But then I find the floor routine set to tinny music in gymnastics the ugliest thing... It's personal I suppose. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I agree on the gym at the top levels. It's become much more acrobatic - which is fine - they're not dancers and i love it. The women's floor USED to be my fave thing to watch but isn't anymore. In a way I find the fact they still have music is the problem- just admit it's not artistic and be like the men.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Yes interesting. i find it horrible but you're right without the music it's a completely different thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophika9899 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Goodness me! They're only little! They were probably very tidy when they set off but got a little scruffy in the process! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeliB Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I must say I am a little uncomfortable with the interpretation of the photos that a teacher is 'yanking' a child's leg up. From a still photo you can have no idea that this is what is happening- the little girl in question isn't grimacing in pain, she has her standing leg slightly bent to reduce the difficulty and whilst looking a little bemused she does has a small smile her face. Perhaps she is just naturally flexible! Further down there is a pic of a little girl with her foot at a right angle (obviously as far as she could get it) and no one seems to be forcing it higher. I think the assessors would be really upset that people are thinking that's what they are doing... Also yes, some of the kids look a bit glum- maybe they were bored from waiting around for a long process? And a few of them are skipping along looking radiantly happy yet no-one is interpreting SAB as clearly a super wonderful place as a result of those particular pictures... It's only a few photos- I showed them to my daughter and she thought they all looked really sweet.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Fair points, CeliB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophika9899 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I'm with you there CeliB. It is so wrong to draw assumptions from a few stills that the children are miserable or untidy, that the parents didn't bother to send them to the audition in the proper way. Or that their legs are being yanked up in a way reminiscent of Soviet Russia. To be honest? I'd rather see pics of children at auditions looking like children - a little tired and scruffy - rather than dolled up and perfectly coiffed. Sorry, but we weren't there so we can't assume. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumToTu Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) I agree SarahW Gym isn't as artistic as it used to be since last code of points, I think it maybe because gymnasts these days, I am no expert, have to incorporate 4 tumbling passes in their floor routines to be competitive plus are not allowed to take breathers in the corner any more. As oppose to in the past when they more often did just 3 tumbling and had a second breather in the corner before each tumble and could make up extra points by competing difficult leaps and dance elements. This would make a routine appear more artistic and allow for much more expression, as they are not mid air upside down as often. So although, many of todays gymnasts would be more then capable of beautiful artistry and expression they probably need to save every little ounce of energy to get their tumbles round to land and not land on their bums lol. It is obviously the direction they want the sport moving at the moment, they have made it so much harder, so something else has had to give and unfortunately it's often the beautiful artistry..... I don't think the women routines are becoming like the men's floor routines apart from the harder tumbles, the men seem to have a lot of slow controlled handstands etc, more focus on strength, less on dance elements. Edited April 25, 2015 by Snowflake 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Also, re the photos and the children's hair, etc, it's clear that some of these children have never done dance lessons before because they're wearing swimming costumes or shorts and T-shirts, and parents aren't necessarily going to know about buns and plaits - and what does it matter anyway? The SAB website says no prior experience or training is needed and that swimming costumes and T-shirts are fine to wear for the audition. It makes no mention of hairstyles. When my DD started ballet through a community programme, we were given the same message for the audition about swimming costumes or shorts/T-shirts and were just told to pull hair back off the face into a pony tail. It was only after a whole year in the progamme that buns were needed. https://www.sab.org/winterterm/admission/auditions_for_6_to_10_year_olds.php I have to agree with those who thought the children look sweet - like little children! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Personally I don't find the pictures shocking at all. To me it just looks like a bunch of very normal kids trying out for an after school activity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Hi Snowflake, It is quite fair enough for gym to get more acrobatic. I think the reduction in artistry coincides with me having a dd - I had no knowledge of ballet in the past. I felt a bit glum after these European s but saw some lovely floor at Glasgow in December. ...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumToTu Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) Hi SarahW, I only have limited knowledge of both too mostly though dd, who is a ballet gym fanatic and geek already at age 10 lol. dd likes Catherline Lyons a GB Junior who is quite expressive, artistic, though not in really balletic fashion. We weren't huge fans of Claudia Fragapane's floor routine, but I think like you that comes from dd being involved with ballet, not keen on the break dancing, love her, just not keen on her floor choreography, it gave the illusion of a routine all rushed and strained for her instead of effortless and light to us anyway. Hope they bring back a little artistry in the next code of points, I know it's a sport, but it is a beautiful one. Edited April 25, 2015 by Snowflake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 We've gone off on a bit of a tangent here but here's a clip of my favourite gymnast, Svetlana Khorkina, showing how it was still possible to be artistic with beautiful lines in a gymnastics floor routine: I always thought she would have made a beautiful dancer with those long limbs. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I find this part of the thread very interesting. I watched Olga Korbut and the Russian gymnastics team of 1976 and 1980 a couple of years ago and thought they had to have had ballet classes as they were all so graceful in their movements and gestures. Olga is on Twitter, so I asked her and to my amazement she responded and said it was a basic requirement of the gymnastics squad then and that they had taken classes for many years. I wish it was still the case as I find women's gymnastics to be both ugly and dull now. I used to love it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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