Another article dismissing UK dance training

[aileen]

Melody, I was replying to taxi4ballet. I should have been clearer.

[taxi4ballet]

Actually, I think that the biggest issue is the increasing reluctance of companies, both ballet and contemporary, to employ or engage new graduates.

Yes, in the last edition of Dance Europe I bought a few weeks ago there were a number of companies advertising positions and most of them wanted applicants to have had at least two year's professional experience.

 

I wasn't suggesting there is a 'policy' of deliberately not recruiting British-trained dancers. Presumably, contemporary dance is by its very nature constantly changing (I know almost nothing about it and don't like it all that much), and these particular choreographers have developed their own style and find that people trained in a particular way are most suited to that. It would be impossible for vocational schools and colleges to train their students in every single contemporary technique that every choreographer could possibly want... this time next week they will want something else anyway.

[dancingboy65]

http://new-adventures.net/Matthew Bourne has put a very informative comment on the previous article on the new adventure website.

[Lifeafterballet]

http://new-adventures.net/news/our-thoughts-on-british-dance-training

And the there is Matthew Bournes New Adventures employing 97% British trained dancers.

[Lifeafterballet]

Apologies ! It's the same article as above ! Poor reception in the Orthodontist Department today ! Lol !

[aileen]

It's interesting to read in the article that the 'overwhelming majority' of Matthew Bourne's dancers have trained at the UK's 'leading ballet schools and musical theatre conservatoires'.

[dancingboy65]

Great minds think alike cotes du rhone! My DS (who's 10) auditioned for New Adventures Lord of the Flies last year, got down to the final 40, the encouragement and talent of the people involved with this was amazing. Mr Bourne seems to be putting his money where his mouth is!

[Lifeafterballet]

My Ds was successful and had the most amazing time ! They were fantastic and even let him take company class for the experience !

[dancingboy65]

How fantastic is that cotes du rhone!

[Harwel]

Well, isn't that just fantastic to hear from Mr Bourne! As was mentioned in previous posts, the other 3 choreographers are just that, 3 choreographers. They do not speak for the whole profession. Their opinions are valid, and require investigation, but I don't think there is any need to get overly discouraged or dramatic. I'm sure there are plenty of dancers out there who wouldn't dream of auditioning for them either. It's a 2 way street. No one said going into the dance industry was easy - get the best training you can for you, work your butt off and put yourself out there. If it is meant to be it will be.

[Melody]

It's interesting to read in the article that the 'overwhelming majority' of Matthew Bourne's dancers have trained at the UK's 'leading ballet schools and musical theatre conservatoires'.

Is that a discreet way of saying they didn't train at the three schools these choreographers are complaining about, or would those schools count as musical theatre conservatoires?

Edited April 16, 2015 by Melody

[aileen]

That's how I interpret it as MB refers to the company as a contemporary dance theatre company and uses the word 'despite' before mentioning where most of its dancers had trained. I don't think that the three schools mentioned could be described as ballet schools or musical theatre conservatoires. The statement also goes on to say that MB welcomes the debate on dance training.

[Pas de Quatre]

Although Matthew Bourne describes his company as contemporary dance theatre, the style of dance is in many ways nearer to West-end Musicals and Jazz. He has always said that his childhood idols and inspiration were dancers such as Fred Astaire in the old musical films..  This simply isn't the style of dance that the three Contemporary schools under discussion teach, so possibly there aren't many of their students auditioning for MB..

[Harwel]

No, the 3 mentioned schools are definitely not MT schools. You would be talking about Urdang, Birds, Laines, Conti, performers etc.

[aileen]

So who are the graduates of the three schools auditioning for (and getting jobs with)? There's Wayne McGregor's company, of course. Who are the other big contemporary companies apart from Rambert?

[Pas de Quatre]

 http://www.pdsw.org.uk/dance-development/south-west-based-companies/  Pavilion Dance Southwest is the National dance house for this region, there are several others across the country.

 

Many graduates from the three schools are taking part in various projects with smaller companies. This link takes you to some of the South West region companies.

 

Here below are the production/commissioning details for Mark Bruce's Dracula which has been such a success.  I just cut and pasted them from Mark Bruce's website

 

Produced by Tobacco Factory Theatres in association
Wilton’s Music Hall

Commissioned by Pavilion Dance South West

Supported by Arts Council England and the National Lottery

 

There is a lot of good work going on in the Contemporary field, not just the big headline companies.

[Harwel]

There is Phoenix, ballet boyz but not sure of other larger companies. I always (rightly or wrongly) feel that the pure contemporary dancers work on smaller scale projects and have much less job security than classical dancers.

[aileen]

Most of the current Phoenix dancers seem to have done their training at ballet schools (eg Central, the RBS).

[taximom]

Richard Alston is one of the biggest contemporary dance company's alongside Rambert.

 

Edited to add signature!!

Heather

Aka Taximom

Edited April 16, 2015 by taximom

[2dancersmum]

As mentioned before many of the contemporary companies offer apprenticeships through the MA postgraduate courses at the 3 contemporary schools mentioned. Such companies include : ACE dance and music, Company Chameleon, Phoenix, Protein Dance, Shobana Jeyasingh Dance Company,Jasmin Vardimon Company, Maresa von Stockert: Tilted Productions, National Dance Company Wales, Richard Alston Dance Company, Scottish Dance Theatre and balletLorent . There are plenty of companies out there but as others have said, often they ask for at least 2 years professional experience or they recruit on a project by project basis.

[taximom]

However the Apprenticeships were not funded when my DD was applying. I think there may be a small pot of funding for LCDS now but you need to be able to support yourself without being able to work! A truly impossible position for graduates.

 

Edited to add, without being able work because you are dancing full time with the company and so unable to work part time to support yourself!

 

Heather

Aka Taximom

Edited April 16, 2015 by taximom

[veryskint]

Similar to Taximom, apprenticeships were not funded when my DS graduated last year. I noticed an announcement on FB (after the deadline) that some funding was available for LCDS. The situation is very frustrating for graduates as doing an apprenticeship means not being able to do any other paid work as they are involved in company life e.g. touring.

 

Hofesh Shechter took on 8 PAID apprentices last year. I note Rambert have an apprenticeship scheme where they take on an apprentice each year with funding so the dancer must be receiving some payment.

 

I would like to add from reading posts above that from three applications requiring 2 or 3 years post grad experience my DS has been invited to two auditions despite having only a few months experience so I would advise graduates to apply - you never know

[Pas de Quatre]

In the Autumn statement last December, the Chancellor announced that from 2016 there will be a student loan system for Postgraduate Masters degrees in any subject, just that the student must be under age 30.  So it might benefit some of our dancers!

 

Interesting to hear that your DS has been invited to auditions, veryskint, even without as much experience as advertised. 

[Jan McNulty]

Interesting blog piece from Ismene Brown in The Spectator

[Pas de Quatre]

Having watched the Contemporary final of BBC's Young Dancer of the Year, if I heard correctly, Akram Khan was explaining that there is no definitive technique or style for Contemporary dance, that it is evolving all the time and and feeds on new ideas.  I have always understood this is exactly what the three UK Contemporary schools are trying to teach, openness and the ability to become "thinking dancers".  So to me it seems that his remarks on this programme contradict his press release last week.

[Bruce]

Interesting blog piece from Ismene Brown in The Spectator

I'd urge folks to read the Ismene Brown piece on all this.

 

Amidst a lot of interesting thoughts there is a quote from Tamara Rojo that will resonate with some and not others. Here is the complete para for context:

 

"And this was underscored by what Tamara Rojo, the charismatic ballerina-director of English National Ballet, said last week in advance of the BBC’s Young Dancer competition (being broadcast over the next couple of weeks). She said today’s Britain was not cultivating the work ethic in youngsters – they were too quickly congratulated by teachers concerned to be kind."

[Jan McNulty]

And a news feature in London Dance.

[Pas de Quatre]

Thank you Janet - that is very interesting.  I followed the link to Models from Abroad which makes very interesting reading.

[Jan McNulty]

And the controversy rumbles on.  A letter in The Stage

[Harwel]

Thanks for posting that Janet. I found that to be a fascinating article with a very positive approach to finding a solution to what does seem to be a genuine concern. Let's hope this debate really does bring about a positive change.

[amum/Cathy]

Luke Jennings has written more about this in today's Observer. Essentially he regrets the loss (or reduction) of rigorous older methods, including ballet,in the current training at the main Contemporary schools. Really interesting (to me anyway). I'm having trouble pasting the link though so will have to find it again, sorry!

[amum/Cathy]

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2015/jul/12/contemporary-dance-debate-shechter-khan-newson-laban-students-training

 

Hope that works!

[aileen]

Yes, I thought that it was an interesting and balanced article. The position of the (contemporary) schools (at least this is their defence) is that they are training students for a portfolio career rather than for a position with one of the larger established contemporary companies. and, consequently, their students need to be more versatile, which is reflected in the training. It's important that prospective students are told this so that they are not under any illusions about the type of training which they will receive.

Edited July 12, 2015 by aileen