Sandsfoot Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I am so sorry to hear of your rejections but I would echo what others have said about being a JA and getting one yes is a great achievement in itself. I can understand if you are a JA if must be extra difficult to be cut off from the RBS. I would also agree that the lack of feedback is frustrating however at least it is across the board but it did set me wondering if you could request anything under the Freedom of Information Act!! I would say the vast majority of DC will not end up being a professional, even those who go to vocational school so one needs to be realistic from the outset but if you truly want it then you have to keep trying until all hope is lost and take every opportunity that is offered. It certainly teaches them perseverance amongst other things. Good luck with the funding. I hope everything works out. Congratulations to you DD for getting into Oxbridge chaperone - what an achievement and no less that getting into vocational ballet school IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mae989 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Thankyou Hairbelles, I would really appreciate that. It is so good to hear these stories from everyone that has already been there. I wish I'd have found this forum sooner! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Private Schools are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act but even if it were because it is personal information it would beg the Data Protection Act (you can request details of admissions policies/how decisions are made by a school but not details of an individual decision. Edited February 23, 2015 by Picturesinthefirelight 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anondancer_15 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 big hugs to you and your DD! it may not be anything personal at all like body shape etc. if it is - then bodies change all the time especially at that young age and there are plenty of dancers out there that have been told they don't have the right physique and gone on to do great things. as she's only 11, it may be that she's just not ready yet, she still has years ahead of her and a lot can change in just a year so if she auditioned again next year it could go very differently! do not fret, she has plenty of time and if dance is something she definitely wants to pursue then there's no harm in pushing forward and seeing where you end up! your daughter is clearly very talented, she got a yes!! and she's a RBS JA - that's something not many can say! there will be plenty more opportunities for your dd, good luck to you both 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Private Schools are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act but even if it were because it is personal information it would beg the Data Protection Act (you can request details of admissions policies/how decisions are made by a school but not details of an individual decision. Plus on almost all (if not all) application correspondence, it quite clearly states that feedback regarding auditions will not be given. If your teacher has contacts at a school then it MAY be possible to glean some informal feedback, but it's not a given. The process is clear from the outset, and as frustrating as it may be, it's good preparation for company auditions. Imagine the time involved in giving individual feedback to hundreds of auditionees? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpybearzuk Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I agree about giving feedback to hundreds of children would be hard but it would be nice to give you some feedback when your child has trained with them as a associate for 3 years and not even getting to the finals Edited February 24, 2015 by grumpybearzuk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Isn't it just about numbers? There are more RBS JAs than there are places at the RBS and, of course, there will be applicants with potential who are not JAs, perhaps because they are an associate elsewhere, perhaps because they do not attend any associate scheme for some reason or perhaps because they are applying from abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mae989 Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think some have missed the point of this thread. My issue isn't the fact DD got a no, or that there was no feedback (which would've been nice but I do understand why). My questions were simply how do I get her through this with the same passion she had before, how do I know if she really ticks enough boxes and what are these boxes?!!! How do I know if she has enough to let her go through this again and again? I am not a dancer, I don't know what people look for. No's are inevitable but I don't want to set her up to fail either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I'm afraid you don't know if she ticks enough boxes. We as parents all wish we knew these things.The best person to judge will be her teacher or her JA teacher. And even they don't have a crystal ball and don't really know either. And you don't need to get her through it with the same passion she had before - that's up to her. If she has the passion, if she has "enough" to keep going through it again and again, that's all that's needed at this stage. If her passion fades at some point, or she doesn't want to continue, that's fine, too. Be guided by what she wants - bearing in mind that in her teenage years, what she wants may be totally different! 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeliB Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I agree with Rowan wholeheartedly- none of us can ever know if the work, sacrifice, cost, absence (four those who end up going away from home young), dedication and endlessly putting themselves forward to be judged (and picking themselves up again when they have been found wanting) will result in a 'happy ending' (whatever that looks like?). I have always worked on the basis that my DS has to be enjoying the journey, at whatever stage, for its own sake and not for the promise of glory at the end. There are simply too many variables that go into making a success in any art form and potential to succeed is impossible to predict - even children who have been told should give up as they will never make a dancer sometimes are proved wrong (so I would even caution against taking your JA teacher's word as gospel). As long as the journey is enjoyable and your DD is learning and happy then go with the flow. In case it helps my DS was never even offered a place with JAs (he auditioned twice). After Lausanne aged 17 and with only 3 years vocational training under his belt he was offered places and scholarships to many schools and both junior company and main company contracts all over the world, so he clearly has the ability to get a job with a classical ballet company. What a tragedy if I'd taken RBSs opinion as the gold standard.... 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecarte Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 We must never forget it is our DC's journey and we are just along as spectators and bankers for the ride. We live with their triumphs,disappointments,heartaches and joy. However if they choose to move on to pastures new,have disappointments, change emphasis or keep on going then we must respect their wishes whatever comes. We are their cheerleaders, punchbags and their greatest supporters. It is a job for which we are not paid but do willingly. We all hope they will glide through effortlessly but this is rarely the case. I for one am just glad she has tried. Your DD will learn something from the whole experience and hopefully it will inform her and empower her in the future. If not then as quoted earlier "what is for you will not pass you by" ( roughly!) It is natural to try and protect our DC's from harsh realities but will it help them in the long run? All we can do is love and support them and hope they find the strength within themselves to keep going. I am sure in the short term she will be upset/disappointed but it is how she deals with it in the longer term which is more important. With such a caring mother she is more than half way there. X 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mae989 Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Thankyou Rowan and CeliB. I have maybe been told on many occasions by teachers/parents etc that the girls have to be a certain height, physique, even head size!!! It makes my head swim! I think you are right, I need to learn to let go and let her live this and just be there whenever she needs me. I did look at the Micheala DePrine autobiography and think that would be a great read for both me and DD. Very inspirational Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mae989 Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Oh and well done to your DS, sounds like another inspiring story :0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mae989 Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 **hugs*** ecarte. Beautiful words ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance*is*life Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I can echo the size of head bit - that was one of the reasons given me as to why I hadn't been accepted to the company, when I'd just spent three years coming in the top 3 or 4 every test of my class at RBS. Oh and that I had one leg longer than the other! Doesn't everyone? I also didn't get into Festival Ballet (pre ENB days) or Stuttgart, because at that particular time, they wanted tall dancers with long legs. Actually come to think of it, none of my fellow students at RBS had the bodies that dancers seem to have to have nowadays, I doubt I would have been accepted to the school at all today. So I think I'm rather lucky to have been born when I was! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anondancer_15 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think it's virtually impossible to tell which boxes an individual ticks, what's important is doing whatever you love and sticking with it if that's what you want to do, because there are always other options and pathways if one thing doesn't work out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piccolo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Mae989, having been in the same position as you last year, along with most of Dd's JA group, I'd say don't worry about whether your dd gets any offers at this stage. She is only 11 and the RBS etc are not necessarily the only dance routes. Speak to your JA teacher. She might agree that your dd has potential and should continue to pursue the vocational route. Maybe she can suggest ways to train vocationally with private lessons. Also, think about how to utilise the local dance school to best effect for your Dd. Join another associate scheme if poss too. Your dd is only 11. Don't let a few no's at this stage put you off unless the JA teacher tells you it's not in your Dd's best interest to carry on trying. You won't get feedback from a school, but in my experience, there's nobody more plain speaking, straight talking than a ballet teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrangea14 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Hi my daughter did Pvps at Elmhurst from the age of 8 but she didnt feel like she was ready at year 7 to leave home and i don't think at that time she would have been successful! She worked her socks off and joined in year 8! she then got through her appraisal in year 9! Tell your daughter to keep following her dream! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Hello Hydrangea14 and welcome to the Forum. Thanks, for sharing your experiences. I hope you will let us know how your daughter gets on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I agree that in the end the main "passion" must come from your DD (original poster) Ballet is a tough old world and I think success......eg....having an eventual career ....requires other personal qualities other than the ability to dance. I really love ballet but my own passion only took me to the age of 15! I think my mother was a bit relieved when I finally relinquished any idea of a career in ballet but she didn't encourage(but supported) or discourage my first dreams of becoming a dancer. Because in the end you can't live someone else's life for them no matter how much you love them!! However all was not lost. I found other passions......which have served me well in my non dancing career and........now I have retired I am back doing ballet again and loving it all over again but from a very different view point. So now it is serving me into old age......even if I didn't have that career!! 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
along for the ride mum Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 We must never forget it is our DC's journey and we are just along as spectators and bankers for the ride. We live with their triumphs,disappointments,heartaches and joy. However if they choose to move on to pastures new,have disappointments, change emphasis or keep on going then we must respect their wishes whatever comes. We are their cheerleaders, punchbags and their greatest supporters. It is a job for which we are not paid but do willingly. We all hope they will glide through effortlessly but this is rarely the case. I for one am just glad she has tried. X Couldn't agree more, hence my forum 'name' 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Mae989 I really hope I won't offend anyone with this post but my impression has always been some schools pick 'bodies' and not 'dancers' at the yr 7 etc stage. If your DD is a JA she obviously still has a good body for ballet despite not getting through to all schools so I really wouldn't worry about it. From what I can see some of those taken at yr 7 don't last the course (and are assessed out in yr 9, sometimes replaced by those who didn't get in in the first place) so clearly the selection process is a bit hit and miss- or perhaps fairer to say there is some subjectivity/an art not a science etc. If those who know her (eg her teacher and any other pros who see her dance outside auditions) are enthusiastic about her then that's the only thing you should listen to imho. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonrothbart Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I think you are spot on there Flora, and although it's super for all the yes's, it's certainly not the end of the world for the no's. There are a lot of wonderful dancers out there who got no's, and after the initial disappointments, it just might make them stronger in the long term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) I agree about giving feedback to hundreds of children would be hard but it would be nice to give you some feedback when your child has trained with them as a associate for 3 years and not even getting to the finals I understand the reason for no feedback from auditions but if your dd is an associate at a school, what about asking for feedback from the associate teacher? I think it's reasonable that you could say something like "DD was disappointed not to reach the finals for the full time school. What are your honest thoughts on her suitability for full time training in the future? What are her strengths and weaknesses at the moment?" You're not asking about why she did not go further in that particular audition but about her potential in general. Regarding feedback from auditions, three of my friends once auditioned in the same year for the same vocational school. 2 were accepted and one was not. Although it was stated that no correspondence would be entered into, the teacher of all three friends called the school and said that X was really upset not to get a place and could they give her some feedback. The school said that they felt that X wasn't experienced enough. So... she got her feedback but really was no further forward, particularly in view of the fact that the other girl who was accepted has the same amount of experience and the guy, much less. I agree with CeliB. You have to enjoy the journey, you must keep wanting it. That's true even if you get a professional contract! Edited February 28, 2015 by invisiblecircus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 My experience has been associate teachers are guarded about giving feedback on a child's chances I assume because they don't really know if they're not on the panel and they don't know who else will be auditioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I think that it has to remembered that an audition is essentially a competition. It's not like an exam where everyone who reaches a certain standard will pass, get a distinction etc. There are only so many places and the applicants whom the panel regard as the 'best', 'most suitable' or whatever that year will be offered places. Some years the competition will be tougher than others. It's the same with things like the National Youth Orchestra. A talented violinist whom I know didn't get a place one year and was told that another year she would have got a place but there was a very strong cohort applying that year. Feedback is only useful if it gives the applicant things to work on. It is likely that there are very small differences between most of the applicants and that the feedback would be something along the lines that the other applicants were just 'better' (in the panel's opinion). If you give feedback it will lead to parents and students challenging and questioning the feedback which could become very acrimonious as well as time consuming. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 My experience has been associate teachers are guarded about giving feedback on a child's chances I assume because they don't really know if they're not on the panel and they don't know who else will be auditioning. I meant general feedback on her ability at the moment, not in relation to the audition. The panel won't give her feedback, but the teacher who sees her regularly can, and should. You can only do your best, and her teachers should be helping her to be her best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petalviolet Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I would be interested to know what the actual relationship between an associate teacher and the regular local ballet teacher would be? Do they ever discuss their mutual DC? I know from some of the associate websites it does say "These classes are not supposed to replace regular dancing lessons" and something to the tune of we EXPECT you to continue normal classes, teachers welcome to come and watch, etc etc. At first glance I had rose tinted visions of both teachers discussing your child and their development, not I hasten to add a cosy chat on a weekly basis (I'm not that naive!) but surely I would have expected an associate teacher to say something through your own teacher when it comes to finals for that school? Maybe this is cynical but do Associate courses only specify that you must continue your local dance training so they don't come across as simply poaching the best students (would local teachers be then keen to refer/encourage children to leave?) when in reality there really isn't any relationship once you start an associate course? They co exist but they don't communicate? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfbrew Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Its down to the local teacher as to the level of communication. Provided the information is clear on the original associate form as to name and contact details of teacher then they will get sent an invitation to watch their student. Sometimes this information is sent to the student to pass to their teacher. Ive never had any problem discussing associate pupils and have always had useful feedback when Ive asked. And Ive always tried to make time to observe students in class at least once. (Teaching commitments prevent more visits.) But its up to the teacher to ask about their student. It wouldnt be practical for the associate scheme to contact the teacher on a regular basis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petalviolet Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Thank you hfbrew- that's useful info - I'd imagine it would be instigated that way around rather than vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I have found exactly the same as hfbrew, whether for my own dd or other pupils. Associate teachers are always happy to talk about the pupil, and I got the impression they appreciate this, as it shows a level of commitment from the local teacher. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemongirl Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Ecarte, wise words...and you could extend them to apply to parenting in general I think 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shimmer1 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 We have spent lots of time thinking and gathering all info and reading all your lovely posts. DDs regular teacher is pretty hideous to be honest. Awful to say but true. I don't know if there is anyone out there who has had the same experience but since she became a JA and was exposed to other teachers the tables have most definitley turned. There isn't a single lesson that she doesn't come out crying and I am trying to 'damage limitation' evrything until all the auditions are over. Feedback would not be something we could get right now. We sought feedback from her JA teacher who was lovely and we are now trying to look for some alternative lessons should we not get the funding we need for Hammond. It seems that the feeling is DD is getting by on her associates but is let down by her regular lessons. JAs once a week is fantastic but she needs more. The positive is she sees huge potential in DD and is certain this can be turned around for a much more positive outcome next year! DD had Northern yesterday (CAT) so waiting for the first round results patiently (I will be posting another thread for advise about this!). Then we will be off to audition for MDS and bursaries. No matter what I say, she has her heart set on vocational schools and is so passionate that anything less will break her. Damage limitation mum again!!!! This time I have some great advise to help me help her!!!! So all in all, the waiting continues, the auditions continue but this time I will be a little wiser and fingers crossed DD will end up a little less disappointed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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